Potential Prosecution - Need Advice!

[JR1820]

Hi all,

Bought the incorrect ticket when going through the barriers to enter the station. I realised this before entering the train I was supposed to be on and quickly purchased a ticket for it. So I had a valid ticket before entering the train.

Little did I know, rail enforcement followed me onto the train and said I would be under investigation for fraud as they thought I was buying to the closest station for the train I was jumping on - just received a letter in the post to reply with an explanation.

Could anyone advise on this please?

To add to this - the letter was addressed to someone called John... my name is Josh. I even showed my ID so they got my name wrong.

 

[kacper]

Appeal it and show them the ticket you bought. They will be able to see that you bought it before departure

 

[JR1820]

Appeal it and show them the ticket you bought. They will be able to see that you bought it before departure

Cheers, I have just the ticket I purchased...

I bought a ticket for the 6:59 train but boarded 6:43 train. They are standardised tickets and can be used at any point in the day for any train to St Pancras - they are all the same cost and are all Thameslink. Even during off and on peak times.

The trains run every 15 minutes to St Pancras from my station in the morning.

Do you think this will change anything?

 

[Hadders]

Where were you travelling from and to?

My guess is you were travelling from somewhere like Stevenage to London and had a Stevenage to Knebworth ticket? How did you buy a ticket to the wrong station in error?

How did you know you purchased the wrong ticket when you went through the barriers? Did you immediately purchase the correct ticket before you boarded the train or did you see revenue staff on the platform, about to board the train, and then purchase the correct ticket.

What will your online ticket purchasing history show? Will it show a one-off purchase of a short distance with the other tickets to London, or will it show frequent purchase of short distance tickets with another ticket (like Finsbury Park to St Pancras) to get through the barriers at the other end of your journey?

 

[JR1820]

Where were you travelling from and to?

My guess is you were travelling from somewhere like Stevenage to London and had a Stevenage to Knebworth ticket? How did you buy a ticket to the wrong station in error?

How did you know you purchased the wrong ticket when you went through the barriers? Did you immediately purchase the correct ticket before you boarded the train or did you see revenue staff on the platform, about to board the train, and then purchase the correct ticket.

What will your online ticket purchasing history show? Will it show a one-off purchase of a short distance with the other tickets to London, or will it show frequent purchase of short distance tickets with another ticket (like Finsbury Park to St Pancras) to get through the barriers at the other end of your journey?

Flitwick to St Pancras.

I had bought a Flitwick to Harlington as I play 5 a side there on Sundays. Genuine error - was in a rush in the morning, sp thought I was going to miss the train. So the history on trainline would have been to Harlington.

I purchase travel cards to London when I am in office so they will be able to see that, with the occasional ticket from Luton to Flitwick when I work there.

I had no clue the revenue team were following me on so I purchased a ticket immediately.

 

[glasgowniteowl]

If they look at you trainline history, apart from the times you mentioned on Sundays will they see many other occasions of tickets just to Harlington?

 

[JR1820]

If they look at you trainline history, apart from the times you mentioned on Sundays will they see many other occasions of tickets just to Harlington?

Thanks for reply, and no, they will not.

 

[AlterEgo]

At what point did you purchase the correct ticket? Was it before the revenue inspectors had got to you?

 

[JR1820]

At what point did you purchase the correct ticket? Was it before the revenue inspectors had got to you?

It was before boarding the train, so yes before they got to me

 

[AlterEgo]

It was before boarding the train, so yes before they got to me

How did they know about your ticket to Harlington then? I’m a bit confused.

 

[JR1820]

How did they know about your ticket to Harlington then? I’m a bit confused.

They were waiting by the barrier, scanning tickets for people to go through. I assume they just try to catch people who are trying to jump fares.

I took no notice of them and didn't know they were boarding the train. Does that make sense.

 

[Haywain]

They were waiting by the barrier, scanning tickets for people to go through. I assume they just try to catch people who are trying to jump fares.

I took no notice of them and didn't know they were boarding the train. Does that make sense.

Does it make sense? No. You haven't told us anything yet to clarify why a problem has been identified.

 

[JR1820]

Does it make sense? No. You haven't told us anything yet to clarify why a problem has been identified.

Exactly...

The problem was that they thought I had bought a ticket to a station nearby to get through the barriers, therefore they followed me onto the train.

That's why they are investigating me.

 

[Dai Corner]

Exactly...

The problem was that they thought I had bought a ticket to a station nearby to get through the barriers, therefore they followed me onto the train.

That's why they are investigating me.

Did you show both the tickets when they approached you on the train?

Can you attach the letter you've received (with personal details and any reference numbers covered up)? That would help us understand exactly what you're accused of.

 

[JR1820]

I did show both tickets yes. The inspector was under the impression I had bought one when she came over.

 

[AlterEgo]

Exactly...

The problem was that they thought I had bought a ticket to a station nearby to get through the barriers, therefore they followed me onto the train.

That's why they are investigating me.

But at this point you had your ticket to London, so I don’t understand what the problem is. That’s what you showed, yes?

 

[JR1820]

Correct yes. She was under the impression I had bought one when she came over.

 

[Dai Corner]

But at this point you had your ticket to London, so I don’t understand what the problem is. That’s what you showed, yes?

He had both a ticket to Hartington and a ticket to St Pancras. One or both would have been valid throughout his journey as far as I can see.

 

[Haywain]

This story does not add up.

 

[JR1820]

This story does not add up.

Whereabouts are you confused. I will expand

 

[AlterEgo]

Whereabouts are you confused. I will expand

So you bought a Flitwick to Harlington ticket and went through the barriers. Then, on the platform you buy a ticket to London St Pancras, from Flitwick. I don’t understand why you’d do that. It seems quite implausible and I can understand why the officer thought differently. Were you stopped actually on board the train? And do you have a time stamp of when you purchased the second ticket?

 

[JR1820]

So you bought a Flitwick to Harlington ticket and went through the barriers. Then, on the platform you buy a ticket to London St Pancras, from Flitwick. I don’t understand why you’d do that. It seems quite implausible and I can understand why the officer thought differently. Were you stopped actually on board the train? And do you have a time stamp of when you purchased the second ticket?

Correct, I also understand why the officer thought differently.

I must express I had bought the Flitwick to Harlington by mistake.

I was stopped on board the train.

I have a timestamp of the train ticket purchase which was at 6:43, the train got to the platform at 6:44.

 

[AlterEgo]

Correct, I also understand why the officer thought differently.

I must express I had bought the Flitwick to Harlington by mistake.

I was stopped on board the train.

I have a timestamp of the train ticket purchase which was at 6:43, the train got to the platform at 6:44.

Then you cannot be guilty of the offence of entering a train without a valid ticket, and you should say as much in your reply to them. Enclose the email receipt and timestamp.

 

[JR1820]

I have wrote a draft response to the letter:

I understand this appeal. Upon arriving at Flitwick, I had accidentally bought the wrong ticket to Harlington for the train I was supposed to be on (this is what I used to get through the barrier) - this was a genuine error.

After realising this after getting through the barriers, I bought the correct ticket to London before boarding the train I was supposed to be on, therefore boarding the train with a correct ticket.

I have a screenshot and proof of this ticket - I assume you have a picture/reference to this.


Please let me know your thoughts on this.

 

[30907]

The train called at Harlington, so you had a valid ticket anyway that far, and all you needed was one from Harlington to London
EDIT: no it didn't, so the OP correctly bought from Flitwick. Apologies.

 

[AlterEgo]

The train called at Harlington, so you had a valid ticket anyway that far, and all you needed was one from Harlington to London

Yes, that is all you need to say. The OP should directly address the allegation and say specifically why they cannot possibly be guilty of the offence.

 

[30907]

I have wrote a draft response to the letter:

I am afraid the following doesn't entirely make sense

I understand this appeal.

What does this refer to, and who are you addressing it to?

Upon arriving at Flitwick, I had accidentally bought the wrong ticket to Harlington for the train I was supposed to be on (this is what I used to get through the barrier) - this was a genuine error.

After realising this after getting through the barriers, I bought the correct ticket to London before boarding the train I was supposed to be on, therefore boarding the train with a correct ticket.

I have a screenshot and proof of this ticket- I assume you have a picture/reference to this.

Again. who is "you"?

Please let me know your thoughts on this.

Are you now asking us?

Also, can you think of anything in your ticket purchase history which might explain why the Fraud team might have thought your behaviour suspicious?

 

[Hadders]

If I am understanding correctly:

You purchased a ticket from Flitwick to Harlington and used this ticket to pass through the barriers at FLitwick
Before boarding the train you realised you'd purchased the wrong ticket as you were travelling to St Pancras
You purchased a ticket from Flitwick to St Pancras - did you do this before boarding the train (it is important that we know this?)
A ticket inspector takes your details - was this before you boarded the train or onboard?

Have I go this right?

 

[pelli]

The train called at Harlington, so you had a valid ticket anyway that far, and all you needed was one from Harlington to London

I believe the train did not, so this additional layer of defence would not work:

I bought a ticket for the 6:59 train but boarded 6:43 train.

On weekdays the 06:43 from Flitwick skips Harlington (whereas the 06:41 and 06:59 do stop there). This fits with the inspector's actions: Observe a passenger with a Harlington ticket heading for a train not stopping there, so follow them on board to investigate.

(But the other ticket having been bought with a timestamp before the train was possible to board should be a sufficient defence.)

I have a timestamp of the train ticket purchase which was at 6:43, the train got to the platform at 6:44.

 

[JR1820]

If I am understanding correctly:

You purchased a ticket from Flitwick to Harlington and used this ticket to pass through the barriers at FLitwick
Before boarding the train you realised you'd purchased the wrong ticket as you were travelling to St Pancras
You purchased a ticket from Flitwick to St Pancras - did you do this before boarding the train (it is important that we know this?)
A ticket inspector takes your details - was this before you boarded the train or onboard?

Have I go this right?

This is correct.

I purchased before boarding the train.

Took my details on the train.