Powers of a person at a station

[DDB]

There aren't many duff ones out there. Once in a while I have a splurge and check them all on a train and have never come across one (it may have been me who checked you but there are a few people who do it and I can very rarely be bothered). A lot of RH season tickets are provided by company travel schemes. The main chancers are the daft ones who produce RH pay as you go cards and claim that as if by magic not touching in or out will still deduct something from their balance despite them never having been valid on trains. The Council periodically send someone to Nottingham station with a reader to scan RH seasons and I believe the stats consistently show zero or at most one/two duff cards.

That's interesting to know. I suppose the only people who use them to travel by train are those like me that also regularly use buses or trams otherwise they would just have a normal rail season ticket. They are therefore checked regularly as they are checked on every bus journey and pre-COVID fairly regularly by revenue protection on trams.

 

[robbeech]

I think that this is probably the key part. It is a vital part of the 'feedback loop'. Somehow any reimbursements to passengers should be flagged back to the member of staff who incorrectly issued the ticket, not in an accusatory way, but for information and improvement.

The crucial question is if this happened, who benefits from it? Does the operator benefit? Definitely not, revenue will likely go down as a result. Does the member of staff in question benefit? Likely not, they may have reduced commission depending on how their operator pays this if at all. Does the passenger benefit? Well, the passenger that gets to this stage hasn’t really benefitted as they’d just be in the position they should have been in the first place. You could argue this as a benefit but it’s a bit like dropping a fiver and pulling your back when you go to pick it up.

 

[MotCO]

The crucial question is if this happened, who benefits from it? Does the operator benefit? Definitely not, revenue will likely go down as a result. Does the member of staff in question benefit? Likely not, they may have reduced commission depending on how their operator pays this if at all. Does the passenger benefit? Well, the passenger that gets to this stage hasn’t really benefitted as they’d just be in the position they should have been in the first place. You could argue this as a benefit but it’s a bit like dropping a fiver and pulling your back when you go to pick it up.

Unless TOCs are mandated to introduce systems which provide this feedback. Otherwise I agree with you.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Surely showing a receipt kind of defeats the object of a receipt.
If you carry the card and reciept together in your wallet for example and loose your wallet, then you've lost all evidence of what you've brought so cant get the card replaced or reimbursed.

 

[Westcountryman]

The only example of poor training i have come across was in London. For some reason i now can't remember, i bought a Zone 6 travelcard at a 'mainline' station, valid for bus, Underground and NR. I got on a bus in Southall only to be told that as it wasn't issued by TFL it was not valid. I pointed it was printed with Travelcard, but he would not accept it was valid. He did let me on but only on the basis that if I was caught it would be down to me. I did email TFL about it, suggesting some training, but I don't recall getting any reply.

 

[johnnychips]

Anyway, reply from EMR

Thanks for your email and I am really sorry to hear about the problems you have experienced at Sheffield station.

It is known that the current card readers we have dont read the South Yorkshire PTE card, and staff should be aware to let passengers through with these cards. I am really sorry that this wasn't the case and for how the situation was handled. I have sent you comments to the management team at Sheffield for them to discuss with the staff and ensure the correct training is given.

We are also in the process of issuing the staff with some hand held readers which will be able to read the ticket on your card. These should be with the station in the next couple of weeks.

Thanks for taking the time to get in touch

Nobody on the gateline when I went through today.

 

[PG]

I have sent you comments to the management team at Sheffield for them to discuss with the staff and ensure the correct training is given.

Translation:

I've forwarded your email to the manager(s) who is/are responsible not only for Sheffield but many of our stations.​

If your luck is in they'll remember to print it out, hopefully in a size sufficient to be read without a magnifying glass.​

They may even run over bits with a higlighter, if there's one handy.​

Depending on how much other bumph is already pinned up there's a 50/50 chance it'll be visible on the noticeboard tucked under the stairwell from the canteen.​

Sods law means something else will need adding to the board asap and that'll mostly obscure your notice before (m)any staff have seen, let alone, read it.​

 

[MotCO]

Translation:

I've forwarded your email to the manager(s) who is/are responsible not only for Sheffield but many of our stations.​

If your luck is in they'll remember to print it out, hopefully in a size sufficient to be read without a magnifying glass.​

They may even run over bits with a higlighter, if there's one handy.​

Depending on how much other bumph is already pinned up there's a 50/50 chance it'll be visible on the noticeboard tucked under the stairwell from the canteen.​

Sods law means something else will need adding to the board asap and that'll mostly obscure your notice before (m)any staff have seen, let alone, read it.​

Was the over-zealous member of staff a routine gateline memeber of staff or an RPI? If the latter, then who determines where they go? Surely when issuing them with their daily instructions, the update can be given to the staff.

 

[WesternLancer]

You may find it laughable, I don't find it funny at all.

Staff at Sheffield are notorious for making their own 'ruies' up. This has been the case for 30 years at least. I have encountered it many times and there have been various instances reported on here by others. Even when shown the actual rule, written in language which a 12 year old could understand, they stick by their own invented rules.

Complaining results in a 'promise' that staff will be retrained/briefed with the correct information - I have received such letters from British Rail, Midland Mainline and East Midlands Trains. These letters are not worth the paper they are written on, either the training/briefing is not happening or the staff take no notice.

Ref this point about Sheffield, I have been reading a very interesting series of articles over the last year or so in the Nat Railway Museum Friends Journal, written by BR Manager David Copeland. Both enjoyable and well written they cover aspects of David's career progression within BR and are a fine read. I've not kept the particular article but I recall one where he is working on the cross country NE-SW route on a project to, IIRC, improve performance and timekeeping on that route, this is in the 1970s or early 80s. He certainly mentions a somewhat independent spirit of operations (to put it mildly I suspect) at Sheffield station in those days that contribute to problems he tries to deal with - nothing to do with ticketing I don't think, might have been ref platform dispatch or something, I forget. But it re-enforces your point here, and suggests it is indeed long standing - almost certainly pre dates the employment of anyone who is likely to be working there now it would seem!

 

[LowLevel]

Ref this point about Sheffield, I have been reading a very interesting series of articles over the last year or so in the Nat Railway Museum Friends Journal, written by BR Manager David Copeland. Both enjoyable and well written they cover aspects of David's career progression within BR and are a fine read. I've not kept the particular article but I recall one where he is working on the cross country NE-SW route on a project to, IIRC, improve performance and timekeeping on that route, this is in the 1970s or early 80s. He certainly mentions a somewhat independent spirit of operations (to put it mildly I suspect) at Sheffield station in those days that contribute to problems he tries to deal with - nothing to do with ticketing I don't think, might have been ref platform dispatch or something, I forget. But it re-enforces your point here, and suggests it is indeed long standing - almost certainly pre dates the employment of anyone who is likely to be working there now it would seem!

They've not changed a great deal

 

[DJ_K666]

TOCs always claim they look for people with excellent customer service skills when recruiting for customer-facing roles. This doesn't seem to stop them from employing an unacceptable number of such staff who demonstrate awful customer service. Unfortunately people like the person you encountered are often wont to cause confrontation and to escalate incidents needlessly. Some must get a kick out of it!

Yeah they advertise for excellent customer care skills and end up with this

 

[Lytham Local]

Yeah they advertise for excellent customer care skills and end up with this

Ha ha ha, superb.

 

[DJ_K666]

Ha ha ha, superb.

Got to love Hale & Pace. If you like that check out the Northern Calypso sketch

 

[PG]

Ref this point about Sheffield, I have been reading a very interesting series of articles over the last year or so in the Nat Railway Museum Friends Journal, written by BR Manager David Copeland. Both enjoyable and well written they cover aspects of David's career progression within BR and are a fine read. I've not kept the particular article but I recall one where he is working on the cross country NE-SW route on a project to, IIRC, improve performance and timekeeping on that route, this is in the 1970s or early 80s. He certainly mentions a somewhat independent spirit of operations (to put it mildly I suspect) at Sheffield station in those days that contribute to problems he tries to deal with - nothing to do with ticketing I don't think, might have been ref platform dispatch or something, I forget. But it re-enforces your point here, and suggests it is indeed long standing - almost certainly pre dates the employment of anyone who is likely to be working there now it would seem!

Is the same true of the Euston gateline - were they always working to their rules or is it just a post privatisation thing?

 

[robbeech]

A pint or alternative beverage in the tap says this won’t have changed by next week (being fair to give them chance).

 

[johnnychips]

Conspiracy stops me testing this out, with my screenshotted responses from Travelmaster and EMR. The past two days I’ve had to catch the very first train, then tomorrow/today (Wed) I have to deliver a lawnmower to someone on my way to work, so I’ll have to drive. Hopefully Thursday.

 

[WesternLancer]

Is the same true of the Euston gateline - were they always working to their rules or is it just a post privatisation thing?

Interesting question. I can't speak for Euston as rarely ever use it. I suspect other factors do not help - eg since privatisation ticketing has got more complex, and the emergence of smart cards in regional locations now adds to that complexity, that will not help staff. I also suspect that standards of training may be lower than in BR days (staff on here may have informed views on that) plus the potential to employ agency staff in areas like barrier lines, who would have even less ticket validity training one might assume. I doubt BR used many agency staff (again happy to be corrected), combined with in those days agency staff being less prevalent generally in any case.

 

[DJ_K666]

Heh when commuting I was never afraid to shock people with common sense. One example at Eastbourne, which annoyed me enough to remember it. Eastbourne is somewhere that the gateline attendant stands quite a distance from the actual gate, like 15 feet. My ticket was an annual paper one. New guy at gate so he doesn't know me and he goes (This is actually verbatim) "put it through the slot" and I say "No, it doesn't work through that, the magnetic strip is worn out".
Him: You'll have to show me"
Me: "Come here and look at it then"
Him "Can't you show me from there?" (lack of common sense there)
Me: (Now annoyed and sarcastic) "Well you've obviously got such damn good eyesight to read a ticket from there, haven't you. Now let me through and you can see it" (He opens the barrier and get s a closer than necessary look at my ticket)

Obviously not Brain of Britain

 

[sheff1]

Is the same true of the Euston gateline - were they always working to their rules or is it just a post privatisation thing?

In the 1970s / early 80s I was travelling from the West Midlands to/from Euston at least once a week, usually more. Never had any problem. Since privatisation I have only used local services at Euston, so no experience of the 'Virgin' gateline.

 

[syorksdeano]

Just as a tip, you download the travel master app onto an android handset (not sure if iPhone have an app), as long as your phone has NFC, then you will be able to check what card is loaded onto your card.

You can also use this way to top your card up

 

[rg177]

Just as a tip, you download the travel master app onto an android handset (not sure if iPhone have an app), as long as your phone has NFC, then you will be able to check what card is loaded onto your card.

You can also use this way to top your card up

Indeed, the one time that a guard on Northern was completely dumbfounded by me having a Travelmaster, I scanned it myself with the app and showed him the result. He was happy enough with that and said he'd try to have a reader on his phone in future.