Pre-nationalisation schemes that never happened

[Calthrop]

Earlier the Fishguard boat train route was never completed in full, thanks to many ocean liners being diverted from Liverpool to Southampton and then Irish independence.

My ignorance here, I'm sure: but concerning rail-access improvements re Fishguard -- I've known only of rails first reaching that location and linking it to the national system, some time in the 19th century, by way of the twisty / indirect / meandering route ex Clynderwen, via Rosebush and Puncheston; with a more direct route to Fishguard having been created by the opening in 1906, of the new line between Clarbeston Road and Letterston Junction. Was there then, a yet better envisaged way of attaining Fishguard: which -- as per above-quoted -- never saw the light of day?

 

[Merthyr Imp]

I'm not sure if was totally an LSWR project, but it got on to at least some Bartholomew maps, which showed a triangle junction on to the FYNR between Freshwater and Yarmouth, see here

I've found the article, it was actually in Railway World Annual 1977 - 'The Little Channel Tunnel', by Michael R. Bonavia.

The gist of it is that a financier, Sir Blundell Maple commissioned Sam Fay of the Great Central to make an evaluation of the Isle of Wight's railways following which he bought the Freshwater, Yarmouth & Newport Railway with the hope that it could be connected to the mainland via a tunnel.

A Parliamentary Bill was promoted for the construction of a South Western and Isle of Wight Junction Railway to include a Solent tunnel. This was around 1913, but the scheme collapsed due to the death of Maple and the outbreak of the First World War and was never revived.

The article also mentions tentative schemes by the LSWR which came to nothing - an extension of the Fawley branch through a Solent tunnel to a connection with the Newport - Cowes line, and a connection from Stokes Bay, south of Gosport to Ryde.

 

[Magdalia]

In 1947 the LNER went out to tender for 25 main line diesel electric locomotives for East Coast Main Line expresses.

The project was not taken any further after Nationalisation. If it had, then traction policy might have developed differently.

 

[matchmaker]

The greatest What If for me was the agreed merger of the GN, GE and GC in 1909 that got nixed by the government. A merged company would surely have been better placed to raise funds to make a start on London suburban electrification.

I’m sure other mergers would have followed. Cooperation between previously deadly enemies was becoming far more prevalent around that time.

The Highland and Great North of Scotland got fairly close to merging in the early part of the 20th century. That would changed the railway map of Scotland!

 

[341o2]

I've found the article, it was actually in Railway World Annual 1977 - 'The Little Channel Tunnel', by Michael R. Bonavia.

The gist of it is that a financier, Sir Blundell Maple commissioned Sam Fay of the Great Central to make an evaluation of the Isle of Wight's railways following which he bought the Freshwater, Yarmouth & Newport Railway with the hope that it could be connected to the mainland via a tunnel.

A Parliamentary Bill was promoted for the construction of a South Western and Isle of Wight Junction Railway to include a Solent tunnel. This was around 1913, but the scheme collapsed due to the death of Maple and the outbreak of the First World War and was never revived.

The article also mentions tentative schemes by the LSWR which came to nothing - an extension of the Fawley branch through a Solent tunnel to a connection with the Newport - Cowes line, and a connection from Stokes Bay, south of Gosport to Ryde.

Story has been published, I believe there is a copy in the reference section of the Lymington Library. Screenshot below of a copy of the book for sale



From another forum

Isle of Wight Observer January 5 1901
THE ISLAND TUNNEL SCHEME
There has been on the mainland, as well as in the Isle of Wight, a good deal of specualtion as to who are the promoters of the proposed tunnel under the Solent. There are five promoters, and we are now able to give their names, which are as follows: The Right Hon the Earl of Egmont, Sir John Blundell Maple, MP, and Messrs Frank G Aman, Richard W Evelyn Middleton, and R Cunninghame Murray. These gentlemen will be the first directors of the new company, which will be known as the South Western and Isle of Wight Junction Railway Company. The new company will be floated with a capital of £600,000 in 60,000 shares of £10 each, and the estimated cost of the undertaking is put down at £530,000. In the Bill, which it is expected will come before Parliament in April. Power is sought to enable the London and South Western Railway Company to subscribe and to apply funds for the purpose, and facilities are also sought for the forwarding and interchange of traffic to and from the railway over the lines worked by the Isle of Wight Central Railway Company in the Island, as well as to enter into working agreements with this company and the London and South Western Company. The entire length of the new line will be seven miles, four furlongs, and 75 yards. The tunnel will be two miles, two furlongs, and 60 yards long, and about one mile and three furlongs will be under water.

Isle of Wight Observer January 19 1901
THE SOLENT TUNNEL – The Electrical Review says:”The length of the intended tunnel under the Solent will be about two miles 500 yards, and as the estimated expense of constructing this tunnel is exceptionally large it is proposed to ask for power to charge in respect of this tunnel as for a distance of twelve miles. The proposed railway throughout its entire length is intended to be worked by electrical power, and, with the consent of the London and South Western Railway Company and the Freshwater, Yarmouth and Newport Railway, the traffic from the proposed railway may continue to be worked by electrical power over those systems into Brockenhurst Station and into Freshwater and Newport Stations. Running powers are also sought over the Isle of Wight Central Railway and over the Newport, Godshill and St Lawrence Railway. The capital of the company is to be £600,000.

The London and South Western showed no interest whatever in the scheme and potential investors for the 'new company' were lacking which is why nothing much happened. The company was formed but seems never to have traded and continued applying for extensions to raise the capital until at least 1909. It was finally wound up in 1924 when the time allowed to commence construction under the enabling act expired.

https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38181

 

[mike57]

The Electrical Review says:”The length of the intended tunnel under the Solent will be about two miles 500 yards, and as the estimated expense of constructing this tunnel is exceptionally large it is proposed to ask for power to charge in respect of this tunnel as for a distance of twelve miles. The proposed railway throughout its entire length is intended to be worked by electrical power, and, with the consent of the London and South Western Railway Company and the Freshwater, Yarmouth and Newport Railway, the traffic from the proposed railway may continue to be worked by electrical power over those systems into Brockenhurst Station and into Freshwater and Newport Stations.

Are there any details of the proposed electrical system, one assumes 3rd rail, DC given the time frame, it predates the LBSCR overhead system and the LSWR adoption of 3rd rail. There were a few urban and underground railways in 1901 using 3rd rail DC, so the technology was new(ish) but proven. I assume it would have been mainline sized, was the plan for through trains from further field, switching traction, and what about freight.

Raises a lot of interesting questions on the electrical side given the early date

 

[Galvanize]

Cambrian Railway…if I remember rightly, on the Video125 DEV, the narrator mentioned wanted to build a direct line from Aberystwyth towards Tywyn, avoiding the need to take an inland route via Machynlleth or Dovey Junction, which would have necessitated the building of a timber trestle Bridge over the Dyfi/Dovey Estuary.

Other proposals that fell by the wayside mentioned in scripts of Drivers eye view commentary…

A line from the Tunbridge Wells-Hastings Route which would have diverged between Robertsbridge and Battle, and would have followed the River Brede to Winchelsea, planned by the South Eastern Railway.

On the Brighton Mainline as mentioned in Connex Express…the Ouse Valley Line which would have diverged off line just north of Haywards Heath, linking up with the Lewes route at Uckfield.

For the sake of completeness…you could say the LBSCR and possibly it’s successors had thought about quadroupling the rest of the Brighton Mainline south of Balcombe Tunnel Junction…but decided against it on cost grounds, two long tunnels to bore and another viaduct to have to construct. Would have come in quite handy today mind!

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The LNWR had intended to quadruple all the way from Manchester (L.R.) to Cheadle Hulme in the 1880s, but stopped short at Adswood Road as the widening of Stockport viaduct went way over budget. In the light of the cancellation of HS2 2a it would be most useful today.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I've thought about that one before - there are a bunch of possibilities, the tube could have been cut back to Finsbury Park & the NC handed over to BR as it was, or the entire section to Highgate handed over given it was full size anyway ( or even not handed over & LT run it with sub-surface stock ). I think the Northern line would have been a bit of a nightmare to manage if it wasn't split up.

Did the LBSCR ever propose extending it's AC system? *that* could have had major effects.

I’ve thought of this too and there’s only 3 things that could happen:

1. BR trains sent to Kings Cross (interchange at Finsbury Park for the city)
2. BR trains sent to Moorgate via York Road
3. Sent to Broad Street, but that just duplicates the northern line to Moorgate

Cambrian Railway…if I remember rightly, on the Video125 DEV, the narrator mentioned wanted to build a direct line from Aberystwyth towards Tywyn, avoiding the need to take an inland route via Machynlleth or Dovey Junction, which would have necessitated the building of a timber trestle Bridge over the Dyfi/Dovey Estuary.

Other proposals that fell by the wayside mentioned in scripts of Drivers eye view commentary…

A line from the Tunbridge Wells-Hastings Route which would have diverged between Robertsbridge and Battle, and would have followed the River Brede to Winchelsea, planned by the South Eastern Railway.

On the Brighton Mainline as mentioned in Connex Express…the Ouse Valley Line which would have diverged off line just north of Haywards Heath, linking up with the Lewes route at Uckfield.

For the sake of completeness…you could say the LBSCR and possibly it’s successors had thought about quadroupling the rest of the Brighton Mainline south of Balcombe Tunnel Junction…but decided against it on cost grounds, two long tunnels to bore and another viaduct to have to construct. Would have come in quite handy today mind!

Another video125 fan! You’ve jogged a childhood memory of Fred Dineage’s excitable narration mentioning the Ouse Valley Line.

Someone mentioned in one of the many GCR threads recently there was a plan to electrify from Woodhead all the way down to Woodford Halse, but not sure if this was a BR or LNER plan. Would be interesting to know what that would have been like.

 

[geoffk]

The L&YR branch from Sowerby Bridge to Rishworth was built to main line standards as it was originally intended as a through route to Littleborough, bypassing the section along the Calder Valley through Hebden Bridge and Todmorden. A survey was evidently carried out in 1882 but nothing came of it. Some serious tunnelling would have been required.

And then there was the unfinished Midland cut-off from Royston to Bradford, which would have reduced the distance from Sheffield to Shipley by 6 miles and put Bradford on a main line.

 

[mike57]

Did the LBSCR ever propose extending it's AC system? *that* could have had major effects.

I think the original intention was to extend to Brighton, there are various articles about it in the Electric Railway Journal from that period which can be viewed at the Smithsonian library (and mmaybe other places, pages 306 and 788 in the link)

Electric railway journal v. 36 July-Dec. 1910

library.si.edu

Edit: and here is the link to a mention of those proposals, page 582

Electric railway journal v. 37 Jan.-June 1911

library.si.edu

 

[steamybrian]

Southern Heights Railway between Orpington and Sanderstead.
Plenty of survey work done. Light Railway Order was granted around 1928. Work began at Orpington with widening the embankment south of the station for a diveunder the mainline. No further work done due to lack of resources.

Construction of station at Lullingstone (between Swanley and Eynsford) was completed in 1939 in anticipation of housing development. WW2 stopped the opening and after the war the "Green Belt" stopped the housing development and proposed new airport. Station was demolished in the 1950s but sections of the platforms remain.

 

[341o2]

The Electrical Review says:”The length of the intended tunnel under the Solent will be about two miles 500 yards, and as the estimated expense of constructing this tunnel is exceptionally large it is proposed to ask for power to charge in respect of this tunnel as for a distance of twelve miles. The proposed railway throughout its entire length is intended to be worked by electrical power, and, with the consent of the London and South Western Railway Company and the Freshwater, Yarmouth and Newport Railway, the traffic from the proposed railway may continue to be worked by electrical power over those systems into Brockenhurst Station and into Freshwater and Newport Stations.

Are there any details of the proposed electrical system, one assumes 3rd rail, DC given the time frame, it predates the LBSCR overhead system and the LSWR adoption of 3rd rail. There were a few urban and underground railways in 1901 using 3rd rail DC, so the technology was new(ish) but proven. I assume it would have been mainline sized, was the plan for through trains from further field, switching traction, and what about freight.

Raises a lot of interesting questions on the electrical side given the early date

Also, the upgrading of the Freshwater - Newport line which had many sharp curves and steep gradients, given the size of the locomotive in the illustration

 

[steamybrian]

At Uxbridge work started by GWR on constructing a link line between Uxbridge High Street branch and Uxbridge Vine Street branch. Work was well advance including construction of an overbridge and sections of embankment. Both branches were abandoned in the 1960s.

 

[341o2]

something similar was previously discussed on this forum https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...r-where-a-line-should-have-been-built.153074/

Cornwall's first railway, apart from the Portreath plateway, the Redruth and Chasewater, never operated to Chasewater. Extensive earthworks to prepare the trackbed, then just abandoned.
Returning to the Isle of Wight, proposals for a funicular at Ventnor were just proposals

 

[Gloster]

My ignorance here, I'm sure: but concerning rail-access improvements re Fishguard -- I've known only of rails first reaching that location and linking it to the national system, some time in the 19th century, by way of the twisty / indirect / meandering route ex Clynderwen, via Rosebush and Puncheston; with a more direct route to Fishguard having been created by the opening in 1906, of the new line between Clarbeston Road and Letterston Junction. Was there then, a yet better envisaged way of attaining Fishguard: which -- as per above-quoted -- never saw the light of day?

It is a complicated story. The original terminus of the South Wales Railway was to have been Fishguard, but that was abandoned in 1845 for Neyland, although some work had been carried out beyond Clarbeston Road. When the Narberth Road & Maenclochog company, which became the North Pembrokeshire & Fishguard, was extending to Fishguard, it came up with all sorts of grandiose plans, even getting an act passed to allow it to link with the LNWR at Abergwili by a circuitous route: all of which may have been intended to get the GWR to buy it out.

It is a bit more complicated than that and my source might be a bit partial. It could be added that they never managed to double right through to Fishguard as the descent from Manorwen was always single.

Source: Volume II of MacDermot’s History of the Great Western Railway (GWR, 1931).

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

It is a complicated story. The original terminus of the South Wales Railway was to have been Fishguard, but that was abandoned in 1845 for Neyland, although some work had been carried out beyond Clarbeston Road. When the Narberth Road & Maenclochog company, which became the North Pembrokeshire & Fishguard, was extending to Fishguard, it came up with all sorts of grandiose plans, even getting an act passed to allow it to link with the LNWR at Abergwili by a circuitous route: all of which may have been intended to get the GWR to buy it out.

It is a bit more complicated than that and my source might be a bit partial. It could be added that they never managed to double right through to Fishguard as the descent from Manorwen was always single.

Source: Volume II of MacDermot’s History of the Great Western Railway (GWR, 1931).

The GWR Edwardian scheme saw the Swansea District Line being built which avoided Neath and Swansea, but returning to old main-line at Llanelli. The original intention was to push on inland to Carmarthen (roughly following the current M4) to give a faster route for Fishguard boat trains.

 

[Mr. SW]

Northern Heights - Not technically a pre-nationalisation scheme but I have included it because if it had gone ahead the Northern City Line would be firmly part of the Underground, so the 1970s Great Northern electrification might not have happened - or in a different way if the curves under King's Cross were retained. Could we have seen Thameslink evolve differently in the 1980s with the Great Northern inner suburban services alongside the Midland Mainline ones running through London with more Midland Mainline services staying at St Pancras (say Luton/Bedford services)?

Always interested me to see what could have occurred.
The cancellation of the project north of Edgware was the right decision.
But what of the rest and the knock-on effects?
If the rest of the scheme had been completed, what then?

Here's a little scene setting for the Northern Line.
1950s Work Completed. Northern City Line works Moorgate - Finsbury Park - Highgate - East Finchley - Finchley Central - Edgware with Highgate - Alexandra Palace branch. Northern Line as today but not the Mill Hill East branch.
Early 1960s Decline: NCL cut back to Moorgate - East Finchley with a reduced service to AP. Finchley Central - Edgware worked as a Northern Line shuttle. Line renamed as sop to hide the contagion being borne by the rest of the Northern Line. Line remains busy FP - Moorgate.
Late 1960s Further decline. NCL further cutback to Moorgate - Highgate with restricted service to Ally Pally. First closure proposals for Highgate - AP but heavily opposed. Reduced service Finchley Central - Edgware. Heavy complaints locally.
1970s Further decline. Serious closure proposal of AP branch with NCL to be extended back to East Finchley to compensate. Much opposition.
1980s Doldrum period. Cuts in services north of Finsbury Park. Limited services FP to Highgate with peak hours only to AP. Local complaints.
1990s Slight uptick in passenger numbers. 1980s cuts reinstated.
2000s Large rise in passenger numbers. Full service FP to EF. Limited service to AP still.
2010s Congestion now a serious problem. Local complaints. Finchley Central - Edgware service transferred back to NCL with full service as per 1950s. Very serious proposals to split Northern Line at Camden Town.

Great Northern Line.
1970s GN electrification to proceed as planned. Heavy rebuild of York Road and Hotel Curves to accommodate OLE. Holloway Flyover rebuilt to a different alignment requiring rebuild of Caledonian Road Bridge. Difficult and expensive.
1980s-2010s Business as usual.
2010s-2020s Canal Tunnels built and through services transferred to Thameslink. York Way and Hotel Curves closed. Limited services reinstated to via Canonbury Curve with new interchange station at Drayton Park to allow transfer to/from NCL. Very limited services beyond DP to Liverpool Street and/or Stratford.

Hmm. Maybe they were right to cancel the Northern Heights scheme?

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Always interested me to see what could have occurred.
The cancellation of the project north of Edgware was the right decision.
But what of the rest and the knock-on effects?
If the rest of the scheme had been completed, what then?

Here's a little scene setting for the Northern Line.
1950s Work Completed. Northern City Line works Moorgate - Finsbury Park - Highgate - East Finchley - Finchley Central - Edgware with Highgate - Alexandra Palace branch. Northern Line as today but not the Mill Hill East branch.
Early 1960s Decline: NCL cut back to Moorgate - East Finchley with a reduced service to AP. Finchley Central - Edgware worked as a Northern Line shuttle. Line renamed as sop to hide the contagion being borne by the rest of the Northern Line. Line remains busy FP - Moorgate.
Late 1960s Further decline. NCL further cutback to Moorgate - Highgate with restricted service to Ally Pally. First closure proposals for Highgate - AP but heavily opposed. Reduced service Finchley Central - Edgware. Heavy complaints locally.
1970s Further decline. Serious closure proposal of AP branch with NCL to be extended back to East Finchley to compensate. Much opposition.
1980s Doldrum period. Cuts in services north of Finsbury Park. Limited services FP to Highgate with peak hours only to AP. Local complaints.
1990s Slight uptick in passenger numbers. 1980s cuts reinstated.
2000s Large rise in passenger numbers. Full service FP to EF. Limited service to AP still.
2010s Congestion now a serious problem. Local complaints. Finchley Central - Edgware service transferred back to NCL with full service as per 1950s. Very serious proposals to split Northern Line at Camden Town.

Great Northern Line.
1970s GN electrification to proceed as planned. Heavy rebuild of York Road and Hotel Curves to accommodate OLE. Holloway Flyover rebuilt to a different alignment requiring rebuild of Caledonian Road Bridge. Difficult and expensive.
1980s-2010s Business as usual.
2010s-2020s Canal Tunnels built and through services transferred to Thameslink. York Way and Hotel Curves closed. Limited services reinstated to via Canonbury Curve with new interchange station at Drayton Park to allow transfer to/from NCL. Very limited services beyond DP to Liverpool Street and/or Stratford.

Hmm. Maybe they were right to cancel the Northern Heights scheme?

Could the Hotel Curves actually be widened for overhead?

 

[Calthrop]

It is a complicated story. The original terminus of the South Wales Railway was to have been Fishguard, but that was abandoned in 1845 for Neyland, although some work had been carried out beyond Clarbeston Road. When the Narberth Road & Maenclochog company, which became the North Pembrokeshire & Fishguard, was extending to Fishguard, it came up with all sorts of grandiose plans, even getting an act passed to allow it to link with the LNWR at Abergwili by a circuitous route: all of which may have been intended to get the GWR to buy it out.

It is a bit more complicated than that and my source might be a bit partial. It could be added that they never managed to double right through to Fishguard as the descent from Manorwen was always single.

Source: Volume II of MacDermot’s History of the Great Western Railway (GWR, 1931).

The GWR Edwardian scheme saw the Swansea District Line being built which avoided Neath and Swansea, but returning to old main-line at Llanelli. The original intention was to push on inland to Carmarthen (roughly following the current M4) to give a faster route for Fishguard boat trains.

Thank you, both. All new stuff to me (have never claimed to be a profound student of railway history) and very interesting. So -- some of same, from early railway days; the rest, from late in rail's spell of transport monopoly. The South and West Wales main line Swansea -- Carmarthen as is and has been: would certainly appear to cling to coast-and-estuaries, pretty slavishly -- thus, long-distance-train-wise, taking up a greater amount of time than ideal, to get to Carmarthen and points west. Other side of coin, however: the coast is where the meaningful centres of population tend to be -- presumably the pros and cons of inaugurating new cut-off lines of significant length, through the thinly populated "outback", always needed a certain amount of pondering.

 

[etr221]

Always interested me to see what could have occurred.
The cancellation of the project north of Edgware was the right decision.
But what of the rest and the knock-on effects?
If the rest of the scheme had been completed, what then?

Here's a little scene setting for the Northern Line.
1950s Work Completed. Northern City Line works Moorgate - Finsbury Park - Highgate - East Finchley - Finchley Central - Edgware with Highgate - Alexandra Palace branch. Northern Line as today but not the Mill Hill East branch.
Early 1960s Decline: NCL cut back to Moorgate - East Finchley with a reduced service to AP. Finchley Central - Edgware worked as a Northern Line shuttle. Line renamed as sop to hide the contagion being borne by the rest of the Northern Line. Line remains busy FP - Moorgate.
Late 1960s Further decline. NCL further cutback to Moorgate - Highgate with restricted service to Ally Pally. First closure proposals for Highgate - AP but heavily opposed. Reduced service Finchley Central - Edgware. Heavy complaints locally.
1970s Further decline. Serious closure proposal of AP branch with NCL to be extended back to East Finchley to compensate. Much opposition.
1980s Doldrum period. Cuts in services north of Finsbury Park. Limited services FP to Highgate with peak hours only to AP. Local complaints.
1990s Slight uptick in passenger numbers. 1980s cuts reinstated.
2000s Large rise in passenger numbers. Full service FP to EF. Limited service to AP still.
2010s Congestion now a serious problem. Local complaints. Finchley Central - Edgware service transferred back to NCL with full service as per 1950s. Very serious proposals to split Northern Line at Camden Town.

Great Northern Line.
1970s GN electrification to proceed as planned. Heavy rebuild of York Road and Hotel Curves to accommodate OLE. Holloway Flyover rebuilt to a different alignment requiring rebuild of Caledonian Road Bridge. Difficult and expensive.
1980s-2010s Business as usual.
2010s-2020s Canal Tunnels built and through services transferred to Thameslink. York Way and Hotel Curves closed. Limited services reinstated to via Canonbury Curve with new interchange station at Drayton Park to allow transfer to/from NCL. Very limited services beyond DP to Liverpool Street and/or Stratford.

Hmm. Maybe they were right to cancel the Northern Heights scheme?

My thought is that had Northern Line works south of Edgware been completed - so services Moorgate-Finsbury Park-Highgate HL-Alexandra Palace/East Finchley and beyond - then that would have rapidly come to have been seen as a normal part of the Underground, as another branch of the Northern Line, no more threatened than any other part of it.
And when the GN suburban electrification - to Hertford and Welwyn - come to the serious proposal/planning stage (one wonders what thoughts the LNER might have had), in the 1950s (as part of the modernisation plan) or whenever, it would have had to take account of that, with the straightforward BR take over of the GN&C line (that happened) not being an option. So who know what might have happened.

 

[ScottGallagher]

The 2km viaduct was being contemplated back in the late 1840s, wasn't it,

I've heard this mentioned in Millom by people over the years, it was talked about in a road bridge sense rather than rail. Either way it won't happen!

 

[devon_belle]

The GWR proposed the Dawlish Avoiding Line and a new line to Looe from St. Germans. Earlier the Fishguard boat train route was never completed in full, thanks to many ocean liners being diverted from Liverpool to Southampton and then Irish independence.

The SR wanted a flyover at Exeter St. Davids with its own platforms to the west to reduce conflicts and ease the gradient from Central.

The LMS proposed a new, grand central station in Blackpool to rationalise and consolidate its presence there.

Work started on both, I believe. I'm not sure how far they got on the DAL before the war, but earthworks were definitely completed in the Exeter area. I wonder if part of this was used for the wartime additions to Riverside Yard. Did the SR definitely want their own platforms at EXD, or would they just bypass the station entirely?

Some others come to mind, some mentioned by others:

GWR AC electrification Taunton to Penzance
- This would probably have had to been upgraded by BR, but it may have saved a lot of the branches (sunk cost fallacy?)

LSWR quadrupling of East Putney line
- I suspect this would have been lost to rationalisation in the 60s-80s

GWR quadrupling Taunton to Exeter
- Difficult to say whether this would have survived rationalisation in the 80s. We, of course, got 5 stations with passing loops and quadruple track for nearly 7 miles, but all has been lost. Only Cogload flyover remains.

LBSCR AC electrification to Brighton
- If the SR had continued this scheme (remember, they kept electrifying AC until 1925, and it lasted til 1928), we may have ended up with two different systems of electrification. If both survived the 60s, they would probably now be too ingrained to remove either!

LSWR/SR Six-tracking to Wimbledon (?)
- Don't know much about this one, but we may have seen a lot more suburban services, if Waterloo could cope. I'm also not sure what Clapham Junction would look like, possibly another platform adjacent to P7? This wouldn't be very conducive to fast running, so track ordering might have been different. Depends how Wimbledon flyover came about in this universe.

SR DC electrification to Weymouth and Exeter
- A robust EMU service from the 1930s would have completed very strongly with the GWR (Exeter) and provided better boat trains (Weymouth). New schemes that were never proposed may have come about, and the landscape of these lines would be much different. Salisbury to Exeter would probably have been remained under BR (S) and kept its double track, or if given to BR (W) for some reason, it would possibly be closed fully.

Of course, most of these plans were abandoned well before BR due to the war(s), grouping, and other reasons.

There are also lots of proposed railways that never got built, but possibly those aren't worth mentioning. They call it Railway Mania for a reason!

 

[Ken H]

What about ATC. there was the GWR system, and the Hudd system that was introduced on LNER and LMS. There was also a fair bit on pre WW2 colour light signalling schemes. One wonders where we would be today if there had been no WW2 and more of this kit installed. But we got BR AWS which took decades to install. And had the technical difficulties operating on 3rd rail.

 

[Rescars]

IIRC there were proposals at one stage to build a link line between Epsom Downs and Tattenham Corner, which would have created a return loop at the edge of the North Downs. I think this was thwarted by the local landowner donating a key parcel of land to the owners of Epsom racecourse. Does anyone know when this was being considered? Was it a joint LBSC/SECR idea or something created by the Southern? Details are proving elusive.

 

[341o2]

There was the Bristol, London and South Western Junction Railway, which got as far as a Parliamentary bill.
It did have the backing of the LSWR. The proposed route would have begun at Grateley, through Amesbury and Imber, to join the Bristol and North Somerset Railway at Radstock, then about 1 mile south of Wellow, a new route into Bristol

 

[gg1]

The LMS had plans in the 1930s to quadruple the route between Coventry and Birmingham, though not sure if the western limit was New Street or Stechford. They got as far as acquiring the necessary land before the little matter of WW2 got in the way.

 

[AY1975]

A couple of threads have had me thinking about pre-nationalisation schemes that never happened and how the railway might have looked today if they had.

Euston rebuild - I wonder if the LMS had done this whether BR would have needed to do its own 1960s rebuild for electrification? The hotel could well have become offices by the 1960s (and maybe back as a hotel today). Would be decrying the loss of the Doric Arch and Hardwick's Great Hall if we had an Art Deco gem as a replacement?

I believe that the LMS also proposed new sliding door trains for the Euston-Watford DC lines as part of this scheme, but of course these never got built either and the DC lines (along with the North London Line) eventually got the slam-door Class 501s instead. I think there have been a few threads on here about train designs that were proposed but never built.

 

[Ken H]

...

Euston rebuild - I wonder if the LMS had done this whether BR would have needed to do its own 1960s rebuild for electrification? The hotel could well have become offices by the 1960s (and maybe back as a hotel today). Would be decrying the loss of the Doric Arch and Hardwick's Great Hall if we had an Art Deco gem as a replacement?

...

Maybe we need a thread on Art Deco stuff on the railway..... Some of the SR and LNER signalboxes. Like this at Thirsk (random example)

Of course the LNER A4's were classic art deco.

 

[Ashley Hill]

The up direction facing connection from the Weymouth line to Yeovil Jct. The earthworks were completed but line never built.