Preston Bus Station to be demolished

[PR1Berske]

From the local paper - http://www.lep.co.uk/news/business/bus-station-to-be-bulldozed-1-5203809

"Preston’s iconic bus station is to be bulldozed with Town Hall bosses claiming they cannot afford to keep it open.

Today, the city’s council has admitted defeat on efforts to save the building, saying it would cost £23m to refurbish it and more than £5m to just keep it standing.

The decision will be rubber-stamped next week and talks will start immediately about building a new, smaller bus station on the site of the old one.

Council leader Peter Rankin said the authority could no longer afford to pay nearly £300,000 a year to keep the building standing, with its budgets set to be squeezed by further spending cuts within weeks.

He said the council had hired experts and spoken with developers about refurbishing and transforming it before ruling out every option except demolition, which will cost an estimated £1.8m.

Council leader Peter Rankin said: “My job is to protect the services we deliver and to be spending the best part of £300,000 every year on this building makes that very difficult.

“The easy decision would be to refurbish it but that would mean borrowing £23m and paying £2m in interest alone on that debt, I cannot justify putting that amount of taxpayers’ money into keeping a building open for 20 years.

“We are left with a difficult decision, but an obvious choice which is to demolish the current bus station and work with the county council to build a modern one in its place.”

He said he expected some people to be “outraged” by the decision, adding: “I am sure there will be people who say they simply do not believe the figures, but it is simply a decision we cannot afford to put off any longer.

The council’s cabinet meets next Thursday when it is expected to rubber-stamp the plans.

Deputy leader John Swindells, a regular user of the bus station, said: “Our budgets are tight as they are and we are expecting them to get even tighter, so if we added £2m of interest payments into the cocktail, it puts everything in jeopardy.”

The council is refusing to set a timetable for demolition but the demolition and the building of a new bus station would require a planning permission expected to be submitted early next year. This could be challenged by public objections and even lead to a judicial review challenge.

At a meeting this between city council leader Peter Rankin and chief executive Lorraine Norris and their opposite numbers at County Hall, Geoff Driver and Phil Halsall, it was agreed the county council would build a new bus station if demolition goes ahead.

Mrs Norris said she expected the two bodies to sit down immediately after the city council’s cabinet rubber-stamps the plans next Thursday to start putting together a plan for a future bus station.

It is believed the preferred option is building a 36-bay bus station on land on the north side of the site of the current 80-bay bus station. Tim Ashton, the county council’s cabinet member for transport, said: “An effective transport infrastructure is vitally important to Preston’s future prosperity and, whatever decisions are made by the city council at this stage, it is essential there is provision for buses that will meet the needs of passengers and operators.

“If the decision is taken by the city council to demolish the existing bus station, we will work very closely with them to ensure a suitable alternative is put in place.”

Coun Rankin added it would be able to build a 300-space surface car park alongside a new bus station. Opposition councillors have backed the Labour-led authority in pushing ahead with the proposals.

Conservative group leader Ken Hudson said: “We are taking the difficult but only realistic decision available, to start afresh with a new modern bus station for Preston.”

Bill Shannon, leader of the Liberal Democrat group added: “We cannot justify spending many millions of pounds of public money on a building which is fast approaching the end of its useful life.”

For more on story see Friday’s Lancashire Evening Post."

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Now I am reminded that this forum requires OPs to put forward their views to encourage debate. So here's my view.

This decision is wrong. It's the very definition of wrong.

The bus station is not falling apart. It's retains its integrity, it retains its use, it retains its popularity.

I have been a supporter of the bus station from the moment its demolition was first mentioned twelve years ago. It's an absolute disgrace that the Council are considering its demolition and I'm appalled by that decision - made without reason, justification or democratic mandate. Appalling.

 

[AndrewP]

What makes it so special?

I know it featured in Martin Parr's wonderful Boring Postcards book but the car park is tight and the bus station is grim.

 

[snail]

The bus station is not falling apart. It's retains its integrity, it retains its use, it retains its popularity.

Not that I trust everything Preston Council says, but £300K a year to keep it open sounds like an awful lot of money to keep an under-utilised building.

 

[Smethwickian]

I was there a few weeks ago and thought it grimy and draughty with poor, old-fashioned customer facilities, limited seating, poor information displays, poor access to and from the city centre, and way too much empty space and many disused bays apparently no longer required.

A striking building it may be, but apart from sentiment there appear to be few logical reasons why the money spent maintaining such an edifice could not be better spent on a new one.

If someone wants to propose that some other source pays for preserving it for historic reasons - the Heritage Lottery fund or some benevolent if slightly eccentric billionaire who loves brutalist architecture, perhaps - good luck with that.

But bus operators have to look to the commercial case and councils have to look to their squeezed budgets when everyone - but everyone - thinks 'their' favoured council service is the most important.

The only 'plus' point for facilities often now lacking even in large cities was the presence of not one but four ticket / travel information shops - Stagecoach, Preston Bus, Lancashire County Council and the travel agent selling National Express tickets.

 

[PR1Berske]

We were sold a lie at the Tithebarn scheme, assured that the current location was not good enough and a new location had to be found.

We're now told that the location is actually good enough after all, and we can spend £15m on a new station exactly where the current one is.

It's not just a beautiful and iconic building. It's functional - 1,100 car parking places and 80 bus gates. The investigation into Tithebarn found that without a plan for a post-bus station Preston, transport chaos would ensue.

It's a disgraceful decision to knock it down and we will regret it.

 

[Smethwickian]

I have to say, of course, I know nothing about alternative schemes, local politics and the machinations of city authorities referred to obliquely by PR1Berske. I can only speak as I found - as a bus passenger departing in the morning and returning later on a dull November day - about the current facility.

'Iconic' is a word much misused, often to describe landmarks and buildings, just as the OP does. Striking it may be; representative of its era, perhaps; but I wouldn't rate Preston Bus Station as worthy of worship or idolatory.

A modern, 36-bay replacement bus station in the 'preferred option' referred to in the newspaper clipping sounds fine to me.

 

[snail]

Yes, I struggle to see how 80 gates is 'functional' when more than half are never used. I don't think it's the kind of building that will be missed in the long term.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Yes, I struggle to see how 80 gates is 'functional' when more than half are never used. I don't think it's the kind of building that will be missed in the long term.

Exactly. Its a eyesore in my opinion. They could replace it with a Network West Midlands style interchange and it would look better.

 

[Class20]

A modern, 36-bay replacement bus station in the 'preferred option' referred to in the newspaper clipping sounds fine to me.

Yes, I struggle to see how 80 gates is 'functional' when more than half are never used.

The problem in down sizing the bus station is what to do about the high volume of buses that use it. Preston has a very comprehensive bus network with many routes working at frequent intervals up to every 15mins. They also all terminate at the bus station with no route operating cross city. I'm happy to see that a new bus station will be provided, a series of 'on street' bus stops would not work with the type of bus network Preston has, but I fear that it may just be to small.

Also, these plans still fail to do anything about the fact that the bus station is at the opposite end of the city centre from the railway station. Yes there are plenty of bus services that serve the railway station but that's at an additional cost to anyone wanting to make the connection between bus and train. I'm sure a 10min walk through the city centre isn't convenient for anyone.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I was there a few weeks ago and thought it grimy and draughty with poor, old-fashioned customer facilities, limited seating, poor information displays, poor access to and from the city centre, and way too much empty space and many disused bays apparently no longer required.

I am mindful in drawing a comparison to Manchester Victoria railway station in terms of passengers who expect to find a transport premises worthy of the 21st century in a large city only to find very basic facilities available. Both Preston Bus Station and Manchester Victoria railway station have their the supporters in terms of retention of what they see as iconic edifices that should be retained in terms of the cultural heritage of both cties, but that is to ignore that both of these buildings are there to provide transport facilities for members of the travelling public.

Manchester Victoria railway station has been granted funding which will enable it to have a large new overall roof over the terminal rail bay platforms and the Metrolink platforms, plus a total upgrade of the interior.

Preston is a major bus hub for a very large catchment area and that city is worthy of a new bus station which will provide modern facilities for the travelling public that will be reflective of the 21st century.

 

[tbtc]

I am mindful in drawing a comparison to Manchester Victoria railway station

One big difference is that Manchester Victoria is roughly the right size to cope with current demand (it doesn't have dozens of empty platforms).

Preston bus station, on the other hand, has far too many stances (hence the suggestion that thirty six would suffice in a replacement structure, not the eighty that it currently has).

The bus station reminds me of Park Hill Flats in Sheffield - something that was a good idea at the time but doesn't meet what is required in 2012.

 

[radamfi]

If you look at urban areas the size of Preston which have world class public transport, having an elaborate structure for buses is not a prerequisite. In fact, you don't really see palaces for local buses in mainland Europe at all in towns which have railway stations. What counts is having good interchange between modes and between different services.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I would accept Preston bus station being demolished on the basis that the new station was within a stone's throw of the railway station, however it won't be and as such will still require a 15 min walk across town for any of the routes not served by the stops along Fishergate (which is quite a few), a lot of which are opposite pubs and clubs, especially up around Waterstones, and it isn't a fun wait, I certainly wouldn't recommend it for vulnerable people.

Preston bus station is a gem of a place in my eyes, but years of successive neglect have left it largely disused, freezing cold and poorly accessible (the subway access from the Guild Hall is full of interesting characters at times), and as such usually requires crossing over the bus exit to get in. I'll be sad to see it go, but it doesn't surprise me. Let's just hope the new build is substantive and as good / useful as the old one was in its prime, unlike the hideous tumour in place at Newport (South Wales) railway station now.

 

[Lewisham2221]

The practical requirements of a bus station are something that seem to be largely neglected by planners/architects etc. these days. New bus station designs seem to be either extremely basic and lacking in facilities or over specified architecturally. Both seem to be pretty hopeless for bus movements. Let's hope that any replacement for Preston can buck the trend.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

36 bays won't be enough for a new bus station in Preston. What a bunch of clangers to propose this.
I'll be having words given the recent refurb of most of the signs on the bus station.

 

[PR1Berske]

Well they plan to build a smaller station on the same site, so make your own conclusions.

 

[Ivo]

Exactly. Its a eyesore in my opinion. They could replace it with a Network West Midlands style interchange and it would look better.

This. It only needs 30 bays - if that - and a brighter interior. If this means a new build, then so be it, especially if it would save so much money in the longer term. In its current form, it may as well be a car park.

I would accept Preston bus station being demolished on the basis that the new station was within a stone's throw of the railway station, however it won't be and as such will still require a 15 min walk across town for any of the routes not served by the stops along Fishergate (which is quite a few), a lot of which are opposite pubs and clubs, especially up around Waterstones, and it isn't a fun wait, I certainly wouldn't recommend it for vulnerable people.

What they really need is a City Centre shuttle like those used in numerous other (mostly PTE) areas. A Solo every ten minutes, terminating at the side entrance to the station (where Rail Replacement services go) and running through to the bus station via a different route to "normal" services, should be enough.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Well they plan to build a smaller station on the same site, so make your own conclusions.

But an 80 bay bus station does seem a touch excessive. I can't for a minute imagine that the current offering is anywhere near capacity in terms of buses per hour. Also, I can't think, off the top of my head, of any other bus station that has anywhere near 80 bays.

 

[Ivo]

But an 80 bay bus station does seem a touch excessive. I can't for a minute imagine that the current offering is anywhere near capacity in terms of buses per hour. Also, I can't think, off the top of my head, of any other bus station that has anywhere near 80 bays.

That's because there isn't one. As far as I know, Buchanan Street is the second biggest, at 57. And that is in a much busier area.

 

[robertclark125]

One suggestion I put forward to the city council, without costs as I'm no expert, was to use one half of the bus station, but also have buses stopping opposite the stands, creating extra stands, and having everything going in and out like a U shape. Buchanan Bus Station in Glasgow is similar. The other half would become a shopping centre, but as I say, without costings.

 

[starrymarkb]

That's because there isn't one. As far as I know, Buchanan Street is the second biggest, at 57. And that is in a much busier area.

Indeed. and Buchanan sees a lot of coach traffic with longer layover and loading times.

 

[snail]

What they really need is a City Centre shuttle like those used in numerous other (mostly PTE) areas. A Solo every ten minutes, terminating at the side entrance to the station (where Rail Replacement services go) and running through to the bus station via a different route to "normal" services, should be enough.

Something running a circular route via parts of the UCLAN campus would make sense. Or there's always the mythical tram scheme...

 

[robertclark125]

I've read on the LEP website before about this debate, and some folk say the Guild Hall is under utilised, and should be knocked down. If that were to be the case, could that site be closer to the city centre for a new bus station?

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

I've read on the LEP website before about this debate, and some folk say the Guild Hall is under utilised, and should be knocked down. If that were to be the case, could that site be closer to the city centre for a new bus station?

It's next door...

 

[Statto]

What makes it so special?

I know it featured in Martin Parr's wonderful Boring Postcards book but the car park is tight and the bus station is grim.

Agreed, i've been there many times waiting for buses/coaches & it's a dump really needs rebuilding, half the stands aren't even in use. Worst thing is to enter or exit the bus station you either have to use the subways which are grim & you don't feel safe using them, or cross over the busway playing chicken with the buses.

 

[Andymccabe13]

It's insane to even consider demolition.... This is a magnificent building and certainly unique!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I've read on the LEP website before about this debate, and some folk say the Guild Hall is under utilised, and should be knocked down. If that were to be the case, could that site be closer to the city centre for a new bus station?

The Preston Guild Hall has venues that host an average of 300 events annually with well over 100,000 visitors attending these events. It provides a facility within the city centre for these events.

I am somewhat at a loss to see why the matter of a transport-related premises should draw both a comparison to an edifice that hosts totally unrelated attractions and the desire to demolish such a building, without suggesting where a replacement building to host such events should then be built and the cost of constructing and fitting-out the new replacement building.

Earlier in this thread, I made mention of Manchester Victoria railway station as a premises that has been granted funding for refurbishment works, but there is also the matter to bear in mind of the MEN arena in that area which actually covers the through platforms and every so often, postings will be made to suggest the demolition of that successful events arena to enable the extension of Manchester Victoria railway station. Again, in these instances, the postings which are put forward with that premise made from a "blinkered" view that only sees transport infrastructure, offers no replacement suitable site being made available in the city centre nor the cost of rebuilding and fitting-out of that replacement MEN arena.

I wonder if the reality of life actually exists in the minds of people who tend to espouse such unrealistic expectations ?

 

[Eagle]

That's because there isn't one. As far as I know, Buchanan Street is the second biggest, at 57. And that is in a much busier area.

Coventry, a rather larger city than Preston, makes do with 20.

 

[starrymarkb]

The problem in down sizing the bus station is what to do about the high volume of buses that use it. Preston has a very comprehensive bus network with many routes working at frequent intervals up to every 15mins. They also all terminate at the bus station with no route operating cross city. I'm happy to see that a new bus station will be provided, a series of 'on street' bus stops would not work with the type of bus network Preston has, but I fear that it may just be to small.

Half the bays are not currently used....

Maybe it might also be worth redesigning the Network at the same time.

 

[robertclark125]

Re my post about the Guild Hall, I'm not from Preston, and was just reading comments put on the LEP website over the last few months, epsecially about the failure of the Tithebarn scheme.

However, in an ideal world, you would build the replacement at the railway station. But this isn't an ideal world; Preston Railway Station is a fair walk from the city centre. Someone has suggested a shuttle bus, another has suggested a look at the whole Rotala network in the city. But, what about the thought of actually extending all services from the city centre to a new bus station at the railway station, and keep it in the same fare zone as the city centre?

It would do two things, firstly, it would negate the need for a dedicated shuttle bus, as the existing services would do that. Secondly, it would still provide passengers with the option of getting off either in the city centre or at the bus station, to change to another bus, as happens now.

What are the barriers to this? Firstly, money, secondly, is land available at Preston Railway Station to do this? Thirdly, does the city council have the will to do it, and would the bus operators be happy about such a change.

It's not an ideal solution, but then, as stated, we're not in an ideal world.