Previous unusual calling patterns / services

[jfollows]

Most recently there was a Stoke on Trent to Manchester Piccadilly stopper that didn't call at Stockport..Just non stop from Cheadle Hulme to Heaton Chapel. It was just a one a day service too with nothing else avoiding Stockport in the opposite direction and was weekdays only..... Never quite understood or knew why it was timetabled this way unless it was an error in the timetabling which was too late to fix.

In the 2018 timetable there was 2H86 12:58 Stoke-on-Trent to Manchester Piccadilly; the normal hourly departure was xx:56 from Stoke so this was two minutes later than normal at Stockport and presumably couldn’t comply with the timetable rules to stop without hindering other timetabled services in some way, so it simply missed the stop and ran fast to Manchester. There was a morning Alderley Edge to Manchester which similarly omitted Stockport in the December 2019 timetable (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wrong-railway-facts.235145/page-6#post-5884472).

As to why it was the 12:58 departure rather than the 12:56 departure, I don’t know. Could have been because of a freight train path that otherwise could have been a conflict. The 2018 Manchester area timetable was a bit of a disaster all round, and it was a while before strange things like these could be unwound.

 

[Whistler40145]

Is it the norm for Manchester Airport to Windermere services not to call at Salford Crescent and run non stop to Bolton?

 

[A S Leib]

Is it the norm for Manchester Airport to Windermere services not to call at Salford Crescent and run non stop to Bolton?

Yes; there's 14 northbound Northern services passing Salford Crescent tomorrow (three Windermeres, ten Barrows and the 00:09 Piccadilly to Blackpool North).

 

[jimm]

In the 2000s there were some Newport - Paddington HST services which went via the Cotswold Line.

No, there weren't. For many years, early morning FGW/GWR empty HSTs working from Bristol to Hereford went into Newport station to collect catering crews based in South Wales before heading north to Hereford. The stops in Newport were not passenger calls.

Between December 2007 and December 2008, these trains operated as passenger services in the mornings from Abergavenny to London and back from London to Abergavenny in the evenings, but the experiment was not a success.

In the 1980s the evening Paddington-Hereford HST ran in service through to Abergavenny, and then (once it opened) right through to Cwmbran. It wasn’t very successful as it was much quicker to travel via Newport with a change but made sense operationally as the set, driver and guard were all working through to Bristol on the empty stock.

It was a logical use of existing resources to boost the local service frequency in the evening, because the regular Marches Line passenger service was of course much sparser back then. Carrying people from London to Abergavenny wasn't really the point of the exercise.

 

[JRT]

There has to be a service on the Carnforth – Morecambe (direct) route, otherwise don't they have to apply for a line closure?

I doesn't matter where the service commences or terminates — it has varied through the years, eg.

for many years (1980s) the Leeds – Morecambe trains didn't call at Lancaster (change at Carnforth), before being revised to serve Lancaster & Morecambe.

Later, one late afternoon service ran Leeds – Lancaster – Morecambe – (direct)– Leeds

For a while there was a late night Lancaster – Morecambe – Oxenholme (Kendal/Windermere?) service

 

[Merle Haggard]

in the days of my youth there were overnight trains to distant destinations that called everywhere and were tediously slow.
One I caught was a Paddington - West Wales all stations service which ran via Gloucester - it may have had its origins before the opening of the Tunnel. It included both an 'XP64' TSO with folding doors and an ex G.W. coach with the door locks that didn't slam shut. These overnight rains were often formed of the stock at the back of the carriage shed...
Then there was the 00.15 Euston - Crewe which ran via Northampton and New Street, calling almost all stations.
Daytime, there was a Carlisle - Euston service via Northampton that was all stations, including Shap. Again, a train that had run for many years in similar timings, the only difference between the L.N.W.R. times and 1963 was that the latter was about half an hour slower.
More recently, in the Virgin Pendo. timetable, there was a late morning Euston - Manchester that called at Northampton. Not a time of peak demand, but I tried to catch it once; sadly, the signaller didn't read the T.T. and route it correctly at Hanslope and the driver didn't look at his schedule and query the route, so intending passengers (3) were directed to the all-stations Birmingham train and busk it from there.

 

[Adam0984]

For a short period in 2017 Northern ran an extra 16:59 Leeds - Castleford passnger service that didn't even call at Woodlesford then went back to Leeds empty and went on to do a Sheffield service

16:59 Leeds to Castleford service

The conductor on board my train home has just announced that apparently there is a brand new 16:59 service from Leeds to Castleford...calling at Castleford only (not even Woodlesford!) Presumably to help bridge the large gap between the 16:33 and 17:16 services but I can't seem to see it on...

www.railforums.co.uk

It was run to relieve pressure on the 17:16 Goole which was extremely busy as the service pattern meant it was the 16:32 Sheffield and then 17:16 Goole, 17:32 Sheffield

 

[Gloster]

until 19681950s-60s there was a through summer Saturday service from Cleethorpes to Exmouth, which apart from connecting two quite secondary resort towns went via the Somerset & Dorset line.

The local stations on the Badminton line were long closed, apart from desolate Badminton itself until 1968, where just a couple of trains a day were stopped, strangely including the Paddington to Fishguard boat train.

According to Quick’s Chronology Badminton remained open after the other stations because of agreements that had been made between the GWR and the Duke of Beaufort. Parliament had to approve the rescinding of this or these agreements before the station could close.

 

[dtin]

I'm intrigued about Crosscountry serving Kidsgrove. What was the route, frequency and years approximately? I know about 2 Crosscountry trains a day served Congleton pre-covid.

XC have served all sorts in the past. Dronfield, Cross Gates, Kidsgrove, even recall Blackburn as an extra in one particular timetable from the mid 00’s which I’m yet to recover.

There were also unusual stopping patterns under Virgin XC, with a small number of trains to and from Scotland calling at both Edinburgh and Glasgow Central and some from Newcastle going via both Leeds and Doncaster.

 

[A S Leib]

There were also unusual stopping patterns under Virgin XC, with a small number of trains to from Scotland calling at Both Edinburgh and Glasgow Central and some from Newcastle going via both Leeds and Doncaster.

Both of those survive today; I was on the (heavily delayed) daily (down from a bihourly service pre-Covid) XC Glasgow service yesterday, and the 17:27 Plymouth to Leeds runs via Doncaster.

 

[dtin]

Both of those survive today; I was on the (heavily delayed) daily (down from a bihourly service pre-Covid) XC Glasgow service yesterday, and the 17:27 Plymouth to Leeds runs via Doncaster.

I remember the XC to Leeds as I went on that 17:25 Plymouth to Leeds from Bristol to Birmingham a couple of times. However the Edinburgh and Glasgow Virgin Trains service I meant was via Carlisle, it arrived at Glasgow before reversing out to Edinburgh. The return went to Glasgow from Edinburgh and then went south via Carlisle.

 

[dannypye9999]

Didnt BR once operate a Holyhead to Euston service which went non stop through Crewe or vice versa? And at the same time saw direct daytime services from Euston to Stranraer, Inverness and Bolton?

 

[LRV3004]

Northern operated a through train from Buxton to Barrow in Furness

Announced as a Transpennine Express service from Piccadilly!!! Think that was a glitch in the system to be fair though!!!

 

[Magdalia]

And at the same time saw direct daytime services from Euston to Stranraer, Inverness and Bolton?

The daytime Euston-Inverness service was the Clansman. It ran from 1974 to 1992.

 

[brad465]

There used to be one down SEML service from Charing X-Ashford that ran non-stop between Tonbridge and Ashford, the only service to do this outside of diversions. Nowadays only Pluckley is regularly skipped, along with Marden on a couple of peak extras.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There was a morning peak Bletchley-Euston that didn't stop at Leighton Buzzard, basically a Tring stopper extended back to the depot. It still runs but ECS to Tring for some reason I don't entirely understand (there is another one shortly after that does stop at Leighton and Cheddington but the resilience would be nice in case of a cancellation).

There also used to be a Euston-Northampton semifast in the evening peak that did most stations but bizarrely not Leighton Buzzard. First time I used it I thought it had failed to call. I think it was the 1824, before that one gave rise to an entirely different oddity - an 1821 and 1829 basically splitting the service in half, each calling at alternate stations as far as MKC, e.g. one of them did Apsley, the other Kings Langley, one of them did Bletchley, the other Leighton - in effect making it a 16 car train but run in two halves one behind the other.

 

[Halish Railway]

There was a morning peak Bletchley-Euston that didn't stop at Leighton Buzzard, basically a Tring stopper extended back to the depot. It still runs but ECS to Tring for some reason I don't entirely understand (there is another one shortly after that does stop at Leighton and Cheddington but the resilience would be nice in case of a cancellation).

There also used to be a Euston-Northampton semifast in the evening peak that did most stations but bizarrely not Leighton Buzzard. First time I used it I thought it had failed to call. I think it was the 1824, before that one gave rise to an entirely different oddity - an 1821 and 1829 basically splitting the service in half, each calling at alternate stations as far as MKC, e.g. one of them did Apsley, the other Kings Langley, one of them did Bletchley, the other Leighton - in effect making it a 16 car train but run in two halves one behind the other.

I seem to remember there being until a few years ago an evening (roughly 21:00) Euston to Birmingham via Northampton service that was first stop Leighton Buzzard but then skipped Bletchley and then resumed the normal calling pattern from Milton Keynes Central.

On the topic of LNWR, there is the Saturdays only 22:17 non-stop Liverpool to Crewe service. It does closely follow a TfW service to Chester, but a few calls at the WCML stations would be useful.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I seem to remember there being until a few years ago an evening (roughly 21:00) Euston to Birmingham via Northampton service that was first stop Leighton Buzzard but then skipped Bletchley and then resumed the normal calling pattern from Milton Keynes Central.

There was similarly a Sunday evening one that I think coincided with the start of the two-track timetable for the evening which was an all stations from MKC to Euston *except* Bletchley. It was really quite annoying as it left a gap of an hour just around the time of the arrival of the Avanti from Manchester. I don't think it's there any more either though.

(Dare I suggest it existed to prevent me getting very hefty Delay Repay payouts for half-hour overall delays on the last leg? )

 

[RPI]

Early 2000's there was a Treherbert to Gunnislake service.

Around the same time a Newquay to Cardiff Central, with a 153.

Penzance to London Waterloo and Brighton (attached a unit at Plymouth, split again at Salisbury)

The Penzance to Manchester Piccadilly Wales & Borders/Arriva service was an oddity, it stopped all stations to Plymouth, including Plymouth suburban stations, then was relatively fast to Bristol, and was the only passenger train to use the Maindee loop running Non stop from Bristol Temple Meads to Abergavenny.

In fact, there were quite a few oddities at this time, mostly I suspect we're ORCATS raids!

 

[Merle Haggard]

Didnt BR once operate a Holyhead to Euston service which went non stop through Crewe or vice versa? And at the same time saw direct daytime services from Euston to Stranraer, Inverness and Bolton?

I caught the down version in the Summer of '66 (L.M.Rover ticket) looking back I'm not sure, but I think it changed traction on a through road at Crewe - the electric service through to Euston had just been introduced.

 

[Falcon1200]

There were also unusual stopping patterns under Virgin XC, with a small number of trains to and from Scotland calling at both Edinburgh and Glasgow Central

Both of those survive today; I was on the (heavily delayed) daily (down from a bihourly service pre-Covid) XC Glasgow service yesterday, and the 17:27 Plymouth to Leeds runs via Doncaster.

I think @dtin is referring to WCML services which started from Edinburgh and reversed at Glasgow Central, or vice versa, rather than ECML trains.

 

[Kite159]

I seem to remember there being until a few years ago an evening (roughly 21:00) Euston to Birmingham via Northampton service that was first stop Leighton Buzzard but then skipped Bletchley and then resumed the normal calling pattern from Milton Keynes Central.

On the topic of LNWR, there is the Saturdays only 22:17 non-stop Liverpool to Crewe service. It does closely follow a TfW service to Chester, but a few calls at the WCML stations would be useful.

Isn't that LNR service to Crewe non-stop to beat the route north of Crewe being closed for Network Rail inspections? Although most likely it's non-stop so they don't have to run as many replacement buses when it gets cancelled

 

[dtin]

I created a thread about historic and terminated routes and services a couple of days ago so I have a few more ideas, as far as I know, a lot of the services with unusual calling points or routing are in the former Network Southeast area.

South West Trains (and possibly NSE before them) had a once a day service from London Waterloo to Brighton via Basingstoke

Southeastern Trains and before them Connex Southeastern had regular services from Tunbridge Wells, Strood, Maidstone East and Paddock Wood to London Bridge via Redhill and East Croydon

Southern/South Central had regular services from Seaford and Eastbourne to Bournemouth which went via Brighton and reversed out through Hove

Anglia Railways had a Basingstoke to Ipswich service which is odd as I didn't even know it was possible to get from Woking to Stratford.

Wales and Borders had a couple of weird ones like a London Waterloo to Cardiff Central/Carmarthen or Milford Haven service and a London Waterloo to Manchester Piccadilly service that went via Shrewsbury.

 

[hexagon789]

Anglia Railways had a Basingstoke to Ipswich service which is odd as I didn't even know it was possible to get from Woking to Stratford.

The short-lived London Crosslink (this thread provides some more details: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/londlondon-crosslink.228478) It lasted only from the May 2000 to September 2002 timetable periods.

One southbound working originated in Norwich at one point IIRC, but the service pattern was quite haphazard.

They all ran at least from Basingstoke to Stratford, but nost extended to one of Witham, Chelmsford, Colchester or Ispwich.

The service used Class 170s, complete with buffet counter.

 

[STKKK46]

Isn't that LNR service to Crewe non-stop to beat the route north of Crewe being closed for Network Rail inspections? Although most likely it's non-stop so they don't have to run as many replacement buses when it gets cancelled

Believe it’s ran as late as it can be to get a departure out of Liverpool and beat the possessions.

 

[jamesr]

The short-lived London Crosslink (this thread provides some more details: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/londlondon-crosslink.228478) It lasted only from the May 2000 to September 2002 timetable periods.

One southbound working originated in Norwich at one point IIRC, but the service pattern was quite haphazard.

They all ran at least from Basingstoke to Stratford, but nost extended to one of Witham, Chelmsford, Colchester or Ispwich.

The service used Class 170s, complete with buffet counter.

I caught it once, trying to move a pushbike from Somerset to Norfolk. I seem to recall I’d planned my journey to catch the once daily (perhaps only on Saturday) through working to Norwich.

I tried to make a cycle reservation only to be met by a blunt rejection at the ticket office (I think it was Yeovil Junction) when trying to book onto the Basingstoke to Norwich service. “I don’t need to look it up because I know it doesn’t exist”.

It did exist, and fortunately was so lightly used at the western end that getting an unreserved pushbike on board at Basingstoke was no issue.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There used to be one Hull - Piccadilly service that called at Dewsbury a day, usually a 170. At least it was booked to call there, it was far from unknown for a driver to sail straight through.

Was that the one that was a trio of 170s making a 6-car formation? Used to catch it regularly from Dewsbury towards Huddersfield and do remember it failing to stop once!

In the early 2000s there was a late evening SWT down fast Waterloo to Poole (I think) service that called at Surbiton. This was the only 5-WES to call at Surbiton outside of events at Hampton Court Palace.

 

[Springs Branch]

There has to be a service on the Carnforth – Morecambe (direct) route, otherwise don't they have to apply for a line closure?

I doesn't matter where the service commences or terminates — it has varied through the years, eg. for many years (1980s) the Leeds – Morecambe trains didn't call at Lancaster (change at Carnforth), before being revised to serve Lancaster & Morecambe.

I remember a time in the 1970s when the best way to get from Wigan to Carnforth (for Steamtown) was an Inter-City to Lancaster, change for the Lancaster - Morecambe Promenade DMU, then change again to an ER Metro-Cammell unit heading direct to Carnforth and forward to Leeds (or was it Bradford?). Of course, most of the time for Carnforth you'd catch a Barrow train at Preston or Lancaster, but services could be sparse in that era. At the time of day I was travelling, via Morecambe was the more fester-free option.


A bit like the Bare Lane - Hest Bank situation, there's been a long-standing local "service" between Wigan NW and Liverpool Lime Street running via Newton-le-Willows. I suspect this began after direct Lime Street - Preston - Glasgow/Edinburgh trains were discontinued, to avoid pesky closure processes for the Golborne - Lowton Jn - Newton-le-Willows curve.

Currently the Wigan/Lime St all-shacks service has three trains per day (SX) going via NLW and St Helens Junction rather than St Helens Central. This has been mentioned in the parallel "current services" thread.

But until recently there was only one train per week with this calling pattern, and only in the Liverpool-bound direction. And - in true Parliamentary fashion - it ran variously over past years either first thing on a Saturday morning (~06:45), or late on Sunday evening (~22:30). So I think it deserves an honourable mention as a historically unusual pattern.

 

[nw1]

Hull-Brighton!

Paddington-Hull, then Hull-Brighton return (then next day Brighton-Manchester and finally Manchester-Paddington - it was a 2-day cycle).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Dec 2024 ==

Cross country used to run into Paddington. Stopped in the early 2000s after the collapse of the operation Princess timetable I believe.

Indeed - the frequency of services varied through the years but it was particularly frequent up to and including the 1982/83 timetable when there were services every 2 or 3 hours. Following this, more services originated from the south coast so that by 1984/85, only two services northbound (Liverpool and Hull, both early morning) and only two services southbound (both from Manchester and both late) remained.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Dec 2024 ==

South West Trains (and possibly NSE before them) had a once a day service from London Waterloo to Brighton via Basingstoke

Indeed, can't remember the time but it was morning. Possibly 0912 or 1012? (1997 timetable)

On top of that, a number of the Waterloo-Basingstoke stoppers would then go on to form a Basingstoke-Brighton service (which was hourly, one in three originating from Reading) with the same unit. However these were not advertised as through. Mostly VEPs with the odd CIG, and all single 4-car units.

The return journeys left Brighton on the hour, the pattern was 1000/1300/1600 went to Reading, the rest to Basingstoke except the 0900 and 1700, and 1200 in the summer, were Wales and West services through to Cardiff and didn't go through Eastleigh. In the summer, consequently, the unit which would have formed the 1200 from Brighton went to and from Littlehampton instead.

 

[Bevan Price]

Didnt BR once operate a Holyhead to Euston service which went non stop through Crewe or vice versa? And at the same time saw direct daytime services from Euston to Stranraer, Inverness and Bolton?

In the 1967 timetable, there were overnight boat trains with no public stops between Holyhead and London Euston. I presume there would be an intermediate stop for crew and/or loco change, probably at Crewe.
There was also a summer dated late evening service from Rugby & Birmingham to Holyhead, with no public stops between Wolverhampton & Holyhead.