Printed Timetable availability

[6Gman]

It might not work at Attadale. It works at Preston.

It wasn't working in Preston last time I tried.

 

[6Gman]

If they are throwing away loads, just print less!

Of course we don’t know if they were actively all put out or if racks were left empty frequently due to not enough staff being available to refill them.

Try navigating through a PDF version on your phone, where you keep having to zoom in and out, and then can’t see the column with the name of the stations, and the times at the same time.

There is still a place for printed timetables even with all the apps and journey planners as they show a full picture of the service, not just your specific journey.

This!

 

[Steve Harris]

From what I see on the TV these days i'm not so sure!

People are just going to have to suck it up, it is an online world. On seeing the complaints about not having a computer or access to one, be thankful you aren't unemployed. Want to apply to sign on? Online process. Want to provide evidence to a job coach or risk losing benefit? Online process. Want to apply for a job to get off unemployment? Near 100% online process.

Thats because TV nowerdays is imported tripe from America !

As for sucking it up. That will happen only if we let it.
Its so difficult to believe goverments who spout about diversity and not to discriminate, and yet they do just that if you fall on hard times and you cant afford internet access.

Yes, most libraries have free internet access, but even that is being limited to 30 mins use (pay for longer use) in some places. That is, if your local library is still open and not been closed due to cuts !

 

[whhistle]

When you see how many timetables are thrown away at the end of a timetable period...

View attachment 51344

I see some people have said "well print less".
Yes but then if the TOC runs out, that means bad PR.

I don't understand why people need timetables.
Go to National Rail's live departure boards for the station you want to depart from and check what time there.

Going in a few months time?
Trains are the same every day. Not weekends, that's fair enough, but you can always check train planners.

Thats because TV nowerdays is imported tripe from America !!

Um, I hardly see any "imported tripe" from American on the BBC, ITV, Channel 5.
But then if we're not that great at creating entertainment, why shouldn't we import it? But then that view is objective anyway so is null for this thread.

Yes, most libraries have free internet access, but even that is being limited to 30 mins use (pay for longer use) in some places. That is, if your local library is still open and not been closed due to cuts !

Is your local library affected by cuts?
If not, don't put excuses in the way for you.
You can't suggest other people may not have internet access as their local library has closed as they may also prefer not to bother with printed timetables.

Most people call it evolution.
Some people will not want to bother with technology and will be left behind.

 

[RLBH]

Maybe there's a halfway house - TOCs to supply printed timetables by post on request. That way only a small number need be ordered at any one time, so stock holding costs are reduced.

 

[Steve Harris]

I see some people have said "well print less".
Yes but then if the TOC runs out, that means bad PR.

I don't understand why people need timetables.
Go to National Rail's live departure boards for the station you want to depart from and check what time there.

Going in a few months time?
Trains are the same every day. Not weekends, that's fair enough, but you can always check train planners.



Um, I hardly see any "imported tripe" from American on the BBC, ITV, Channel 5.
But then if we're not that great at creating entertainment, why shouldn't we import it? But then that view is objective anyway so is null for this thread.


Is your local library affected by cuts?
If not, don't put excuses in the way for you.
You can't suggest other people may not have internet access as their local library has closed as they may also prefer not to bother with printed timetables.

Most people call it evolution.
Some people will not want to bother with technology and will be left behind.

Yes my local library is affected by cuts.

And you may or may not be aware of what has happened with Northamptonshire County Council. (Namely they have gone bust !!) With warnings that other councils may well soon be in the same boat.(So expect more libraries to close.)

I'm not making any excuses but im not going round blinkered either. Yes technology is here to stay but that same technology can also cause problems.

As for the american TV bit, i was merely replying to another poster.

Edited for spelling.

 

[al78]

For those who can't afford a computer, live in such a remote part of the country that internet access is impossible, don't have a smartphone or any mobile signal, no friends of family that can go online and print a timetable for them, and no accessible local or regional facility with internet access for the general public, there is the option of contacting National Rail Enquiries by phone. There must be very few people in the UK that cannot use a telephone.

 

[sprunt]

I see some people have said "well print less".
Yes but then if the TOC runs out, that means bad PR.

Yeah, that's a consequence of failing to appropriately estimate demand for something that's part of the service you provide. It's not entirely clear why TOCs should be exempt from this very normal part of running a business.

 

[Bantamzen]

For those who can't afford a computer, live in such a remote part of the country that internet access is impossible, don't have a smartphone or any mobile signal, no friends of family that can go online and print a timetable for them, and no accessible local or regional facility with internet access for the general public, there is the option of contacting National Rail Enquiries by phone. There must be very few people in the UK that cannot use a telephone.

If you can get a phone line to a home, you can get at the very least a slow net connection. As you say, there are very few homes in the UK that do not have a landline at least, and I imagine those so remote where even that isn't possible will have at least a car to get about and could easily reach a point where a computer / smartphone could be accessed.

I'm afraid for those who still do not trust the technology, as myself and others have articulated more & more services are going to use online facilities as the prime & often only means to interact. If the absence of printed timetables is causing angst, then I'm afraid so will many other services.

 

[Darandio]

Thats because TV nowerdays is imported tripe from America !

Depends what you channels you watch, I don't see hardly any imported tripe but that is way off topic.

As for sucking it up. That will happen only if we let it.
Its so difficult to believe goverments who spout about diversity and not to discriminate, and yet they do just that if you fall on hard times and you cant afford internet access.

Yes, most libraries have free internet access, but even that is being limited to 30 mins use (pay for longer use) in some places. That is, if your local library is still open and not been closed due to cuts !

In terms of the Jobcentre, with the full electronic roll out of Universal Credit, people are going to have to suck it up. If they cannot adhere to their claimant commitment by doing daily jobsearch (and providing evidence of via UC) then they will have to visit the Jobcentre daily to use either their facilities or free wi-fi. Then watch how the majority will suddenly find alternative facilities that they said they couldn't find before.

And it will be exactly the same with timetables...

 

[Andyh82]

It’s nothimg to do with catering just for old people who don’t use the internet, or for areas with no internet signal.

Just because a version of something is available online doesn’t mean it can’t be available in printed form as well.

 

[Esker-pades]

It’s nothimg to do with catering just for old people who don’t use the internet, or for areas with no internet signal.

Just because a version of something is available online doesn’t mean it can’t be available in printed form as well.

I'm 19, which is clearly ancient, and I use paper timetables.

 

[Midlandman]

For the information of the OP, if you call at Navigation Road, there is a box next to the shelter on the Network Rail platform that is full of printed Mid-Cheshire line timetables (or at least it was on Tuesday when I picked mine up).

 

[BrianB]

I am someone with a vested interest in the continuation of printed timetables (at least until I collect my full pension), but I can also see both sides to this. Personally I love them, but then I am an insider and not an everyday 'normal'. They give you that overview that electronic systems fail to do well, but could if they were designed better. As a previous poster has said, the electronic versions are like a letterbox, showing only see a limited view of the 'here and now'. They do not allow for user intelligence and the ability to make informed choices. I know you can keep clicking 'next' and all that but it is an arse to do, as opposed to just looking at a piece of paper that will not only get you there, but will get you back as well, with all contingencies, in one quick scan.

I think one of the big issues is that there are more and more people who are completely unable to understand a printed timetable, couldn't make an informed choice if their lives depended on it and need to be told 'here you are, this is it', the instant response generation. They are not train geeks, they have no concept of train types, minimum connections, headways, all that stuff, they just want to make a simple journey from A to B and to be told how and when. If I were to ask my niece to look up the next train from a PTT her brain would explode, she would just go on her phone. We will reach a tipping point very soon when, just like phone books and Yellow Pages, no-one will want them. They wont miss them either because the next generation will have never encountered them. These people will carry more weight than any of us insiders, they are after all the end user, the customer, the passenger and their needs will prevail and we ignore that at our peril.

Question is, what do we do until we reach that tipping point? That point when all us oldies are 6 feet under and the next generation will look at them like they do a cassette tape. Personally I feel they should continue until such time that electronic versions are easy to access, easy to read, unbiased and become more 'tell' than 'sell' to quote an old marketing phrase. However, since the demise of BR, every TOC thinks it knows how best to do a timetable, well, *newsflash*, they don't! There is some cheap rubbish out there, pared down to minimum cost, completely user-unfriendly and deserve to be binned. Conversely there are some that are brilliant, a lot of thought has gone into them and are just right. Then again there are those that are just railway jargon, written by old school geeks, for old school geeks, with not a second thought for the real world passenger.

 

[Wivenswold]

TOCS should keep printed timetables, just make fewer of them. Not everyone has printing facilities or can afford them. Not everyone has a smart phone. I know people who don't have computers or a tablet.

Just because some off us are happy with the new tech, doesn't mean everyone is and TOCs should cater for all. Even if you have to request that one is sent by post, printed timetables should remain available.

 

[ooo]

Maybe there's a halfway house - TOCs to supply printed timetables by post on request. That way only a small number need be ordered at any one time, so stock holding costs are reduced.

Otherwise just make it so ticket offices can print them out on request

 

[Esker-pades]

Otherwise just make it so ticket offices can print them out on request

Slightly wouldn't work at unstaffed stations.

 

[ainsworth74]

In terms of the Jobcentre, with the full electronic roll out of Universal Credit, people are going to have to suck it up. If they cannot adhere to their claimant commitment by doing daily jobsearch (and providing evidence of via UC) then they will have to visit the Jobcentre daily to use either their facilities or free wi-fi. Then watch how the majority will suddenly find alternative facilities that they said they couldn't find before.

What is your suggestion for those with disabilities either physical or mental (or both) who do not currently have access to the internet at home (after all it's not a requirement) to manage their Universal Credit accounts? Fit and able jobseekers will find a way of living with it I quite agree but that's not the only cohort who will need to suddenly access the internet.

 

[ooo]

Slightly wouldn't work at unstaffed stations.

Printed timetables are quite rare to find in unstaffed stations

 

[Darandio]

What is your suggestion for those with disabilities either physical or mental (or both) who do not currently have access to the internet at home (after all it's not a requirement) to manage their Universal Credit accounts? Fit and able jobseekers will find a way of living with it I quite agree but that's not the only cohort who will need to suddenly access the internet.

I'd imagine they would have to attend the Jobcentre to use facilities or receive assistance to use the facilities in order to fulfil any claimant commitment.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'd imagine they would have to attend the Jobcentre to use facilities or receive assistance to use the facilities in order to fulfil any claimant commitment.

You have anxiety, potentially crippling, meaning that engaging with unfamiliar person proves to be a nightmarish prospect that can trigger panic attacks. It is reasonable to mean that the only way that they can manage their claim is by going to the Jobcentre?

You have severe arthritis that is riddled throughout your body, the only way you can avoid crippling pain is to avoid moving as much as possible. Usually you spend the majority of your day either in bed or on the sofa in a cocoon of cushions to support your body. Having to leave home, even using a taxi, exacerbates your pain and can leave you suffering for several days afterwards with increased pain. Is it reasonable that the only way they can manage their claim is by going to the Jobcentre?

Right now people such as the above would be in the Support Group of Employment and Support Allowance and therefore left alone by the Jobcentre and if they do need to contact the DWP to manage their claim would be able to do so via post or telephone. Under Universal Credit the only way they can manage their account will be online as that is the only way that the Jobcentre/DWP will communicate with them. Of course this assumes that they can even make a claim in the first place. After all it's online only...

 

[Clip]

You have anxiety, potentially crippling, meaning that engaging with unfamiliar person proves to be a nightmarish prospect that can trigger panic attacks. It is reasonable to mean that the only way that they can manage their claim is by going to the Jobcentre?

You have severe arthritis that is riddled throughout your body, the only way you can avoid crippling pain is to avoid moving as much as possible. Usually you spend the majority of your day either in bed or on the sofa in a cocoon of cushions to support your body. Having to leave home, even using a taxi, exacerbates your pain and can leave you suffering for several days afterwards with increased pain. Is it reasonable that the only way they can manage their claim is by going to the Jobcentre?

Right now people such as the above would be in the Support Group of Employment and Support Allowance and therefore left alone by the Jobcentre and if they do need to contact the DWP to manage their claim would be able to do so via post or telephone. Under Universal Credit the only way they can manage their account will be online as that is the only way that the Jobcentre/DWP will communicate with them. Of course this assumes that they can even make a claim in the first place. After all it's online only...

How does the job centre deal with these people now then?

And to move on from that to keep it inline with the thread - would these people you describe be having any use for a train at all then and as such wouldnt need printed nor online timetables, would they?

 

[Darandio]

You have anxiety, potentially crippling, meaning that engaging with unfamiliar person proves to be a nightmarish prospect that can trigger panic attacks. It is reasonable to mean that the only way that they can manage their claim is by going to the Jobcentre?

You have severe arthritis that is riddled throughout your body, the only way you can avoid crippling pain is to avoid moving as much as possible. Usually you spend the majority of your day either in bed or on the sofa in a cocoon of cushions to support your body. Having to leave home, even using a taxi, exacerbates your pain and can leave you suffering for several days afterwards with increased pain. Is it reasonable that the only way they can manage their claim is by going to the Jobcentre?

Right now people such as the above would be in the Support Group of Employment and Support Allowance and therefore left alone by the Jobcentre and if they do need to contact the DWP to manage their claim would be able to do so via post or telephone. Under Universal Credit the only way they can manage their account will be online as that is the only way that the Jobcentre/DWP will communicate with them. Of course this assumes that they can even make a claim in the first place. After all it's online only...

It's all a mess and will get worse. In the first two examples it's a possible argument that they shouldn't be under a jobsearch specific claimant commitment anyway, or even actively expected to search for work. I'd certainly expect the latter not to.

But yes, the government wants everything online.

 

[ainsworth74]

It's all a mess and will get worse. In the first two examples it's a possible argument that they shouldn't be under a jobsearch specific claimant commitment anyway, or even actively expected to search for work. I'd certainly expect the latter not to.

They wouldn't have that sort of claimant commitment (it would be a "no work search/preparation requirements commitment" but if they want to manage their claim they'll need internet access.

 

[Butts]

Luddite and Timetable lover here !!!

Sensible compromise is to retain the printed format in smaller quantities and those accessing online can continue on their various devices.

I do book just about everything online and collect at the station - so not completely stone age in my approach.

 

[sprunt]

Right now people such as the above would be in the Support Group of Employment and Support Allowance and therefore left alone by the Jobcentre and if they do need to contact the DWP to manage their claim would be able to do so via post or telephone. Under Universal Credit the only way they can manage their account will be online as that is the only way that the Jobcentre/DWP will communicate with them. Of course this assumes that they can even make a claim in the first place. After all it's online only...

To be fair, this isn't really analagous to the situation with timetables. That's just a few companies trying to save a few quid, the situation you describe is a government that views sick and disabled people as nothing more than a burden on society, and appears to be deliberately making their life as hard as possible.

 

[ainsworth74]

No your quite right and I apologise for going somewhat off-topic! And me a moderator and all

 

[MikeWM]

Personally I think of the difference between a journey planner and a printed timetable as similar to that of a satnav and a map. Both are useful for slightly different things, and both ought to be available. You could get by with just one or the other but having both is a good thing.

(I’m not sure any more whether this analogy is my own invention or whether I’ve borrowed it from someone else; if the latter, apologies).

I certainly use a combination of printed timetables, online timetable PDFs, journey planners and RTT/OTT. At various times, each of these seem to be the most useful thing to use, depending on the specific circumstance.

 

[6Gman]

If you can get a phone line to a home, you can get at the very least a slow net connection. As you say, there are very few homes in the UK that do not have a landline at least, and I imagine those so remote where even that isn't possible will have at least a car to get about and could easily reach a point where a computer / smartphone could be accessed.

I'm afraid for those who still do not trust the technology, as myself and others have articulated more & more services are going to use online facilities as the prime & often only means to interact. If the absence of printed timetables is causing angst, then I'm afraid so will many other services.

I rarely use my pocket timetables at home. I use them when I am out travelling. I often change my plans while I am travelling. That is why I find pocket timetables useful.

All this stuff about printing at home/ using a library is irrelevant.

 

[6Gman]

Personally I think of the difference between a journey planner and a printed timetable as similar to that of a satnav and a map. Both are useful for slightly different things, and both ought to be available. You could get by with just one or the other but having both is a good thing.

(I’m not sure any more whether this analogy is my own invention or whether I’ve borrowed it from someone else; if the latter, apologies).

I certainly use a combination of printed timetables, online timetable PDFs, journey planners and RTT/OTT. At various times, each of these seem to be the most useful thing to use, depending on the specific circumstance.

Well said that man!

I don't want to stop people using their tech solutions (I use them myself). Why do they want to stop me (and others) using our preferred solution?