Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[LNW-GW Joint]

Most London-Glasgow trains are first stop Warrington, so they won't be carrying passengers from Crewe.

The via Birmingham ones (hourly to Glasgow/Edinburgh) do stop at Stafford and Crewe.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They look deeper to me, but hey-ho.

Than Voyagers? Definitely not. Voyager windows are massive vertically. Are you thinking of Pendolinos, or maybe 222s? (The latter, despite being a similar body, have windows that are smaller vertically than 220/221).

 

[Travellin’man]

Facilities on the 14:48 Holyhead to London Euston due 18:35.
Will be formed of 7 coaches instead of 10 between Holyhead and Chester

First 807 in traffic?

I was on this yesterday. Exactly the same. A very keen guard kept advising at all stops that coaches XYZ (whichever they are) would "join us" at Chester due to the short platform at Flint.

 

[Boodiggy]

As others have said an 807 is all electric, and none have been accepted by Avanti.

All built 807s are currently at the Hitachi factory.

I see there is an 807 coming to Oxley from Merchants Park on Thursday..

 

[800001]

I see there is an 807 coming to Oxley from Merchants Park on Thursday..

No paths in as yet, but if runs wouldn’t be surprised if it is just 807002 heading back across.

 

[DJH1971]

No paths in as yet, but if runs wouldn’t be surprised if it is just 807002 heading back across.

Which 807 is it likely to be?

 

[800001]

Which 807 is it likely to be?

Wrote above^^

 

[Boodiggy]

No paths in as yet, but if runs wouldn’t be surprised if it is just 807002 heading back across.

I assumed as much

 

[Jack Hay]

Most London-Glasgow trains are first stop Warrington, so they won't be carrying passengers from Crewe.

Quite right, but just see the number of local passengers doing the Warrington-Wigan hop. It can be standing room only between those two stops.

 

[800001]

I assumed as much

However 807003 is out again on mainline testing from Aycliffe.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Does anyone know for how long 1R14 05:35 Blackpool North to London Euston will stay formed of 221s?

Thanks.

 

[Toby268]

Does anyone know for how long 1R14 05:35 Blackpool North to London Euston will stay formed of 221s?

Thanks.

Possibility until December but at the earliest September/october.

 

[Railperf]

Possibility until December but at the earliest September/october.

What stock are they replacing the 221s with? In the context that the power supply North of Crewe cannot support more electric services

 

[Sorcerer]

What stock are they replacing the 221s with?

I think the plan was always an 805 even though the route is fully wired. Could possibly end up being a 390 or 807 but it's questionable whether or not the latter will be in full service by December.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Possibility until December but at the earliest September/october.

Thank you. Reservations on 1R14 appear to be set up for 80x next week, but I realise that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

 

[poffle]

I think the plan was always an 805 even though the route is fully wired. Could possibly end up being a 390 or 807 but it's questionable whether or not the latter will be in full service by December.

That Blackpool train turns around at Euston and forms the 0902 to Holyhead. Then spends the rest of day operating between Euston and Chester/North Wales before sleeping in Crewe. So the current diagram can only be 221 or 805.

It may be that in December the diagrams will be redone on Avanti so the 805s can be focussed on North Wales and 807s used on West Midlands.

I suspect that an 807 or 390 could do that early trip from Blackpool to Euston as it's early morning and there would be less load on the OHLE north of Weaver at that time of day. That's a purely personal guess though.

 

[Sorcerer]

That Blackpool train turns around at Euston and forms the 0902 to Holyhead. Then spends the rest of day operating between Euston and Chester/North Wales before sleeping in Crewe. So the current diagram can only be 221 or 805.

It may be that in December the diagrams will be redone on Avanti so the 805s can be focussed on North Wales and 807s used on West Midlands.

I suspect that an 807 or 390 could do that early trip from Blackpool to Euston as it's early morning and there would be less load on the OHLE north of Weaver at that time of day. That's a purely personal guess though.

Oh well that makes a lot more sense. I suppose any of what you said could be possible but I don't quite know how close 807s are to being in full service. I was under the impression that were only starting to come out of the factory for testing, in which case you'd probably not see any in service by December.

 

[childwallblues]

Quite right, but just see the number of local passengers doing the Warrington-Wigan hop. It can be standing room only between those two stops.

There are two Avanti an hour on that strech of line.

 

[Bevan Price]

It has been mentioned before that we could do with a stopping service from Crewe to Wigan and Preston. So it seems the power supply issue north of Crewe is probably preventing additional services being offered.

How much of an issue is the power supply north of Crewe. In the past, there were heavy daytime freights hauled by pairs of Class 86s or 90s, and also Class 92s - with no obvious problems.

 

[800001]

Oh well that makes a lot more sense. I suppose any of what you said could be possible but I don't quite know how close 807s are to being in full service. I was under the impression that were only starting to come out of the factory for testing, in which case you'd probably not see any in service by December.

No 807 accepted by Avanti.
807002 had been doing Type testing for hitachi and is now back at Hitachi Merchant Park.

807001/003/004 have all been undergoing overnight testing on the ECML between York and Darlington.

There is a path tomorrow morning from Merchant Park to Oxley, which will be an 807, unit unknown at the moment.

 

[Railperf]

How much of an issue is the power supply north of Crewe. In the past, there were heavy daytime freights hauled by pairs of Class 86s or 90s, and also Class 92s - with no obvious problems.

It has been reported that Avanti's plan to run the second Liverpool service per hour would require bi-mode trains as the power supply between Crewe and Weaver Junction was not able to cope with the electrical demand pending some sort of upgrade. The upgrade I understand was planned but never implemented yet. There doesn't seem to be any concrete news on when that will take place.
So for now, with most of the 805's spoken for for Holyhead services, it seems the 807's are to be used on Euston to Birmingham once they are introduced and accepted.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Has 805013 been accepted or in service yet ?.

 

[Roger B]

Has 805013 been accepted or in service yet ?.

Yes, it was in service yesterday, starting with 1D80 06.04 from Stafford to Holyhead - with 805004.

Realtime Trains | 1D80 0604 Stafford to Holyhead | 03/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 1D80 0604 departure from Stafford to Holyhead on 03/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[31160]

Yes, it was in service yesterday, starting with 1D80 06.04 from Stafford to Holyhead - with 805004.

Realtime Trains | 1D80 0604 Stafford to Holyhead | 03/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 1D80 0604 departure from Stafford to Holyhead on 03/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Why didn't that start from BHM as booked?

 

[childwallblues]

Why didn't that start from BHM as booked?

Probably late off Oxley Depot.

It has been reported that Avanti's plan to run the second Liverpool service per hour would require bi-mode trains as the power supply between Crewe and Weaver Junction was not able to cope with the electrical demand pending some sort of upgrade. The upgrade I understand was planned but never implemented yet. There doesn't seem to be any concrete news on when that will take place.
So for now, with most of the 805's spoken for for Holyhead services, it seems the 807's are to be used on Euston to Birmingham once they are introduced and accepted.

So in theory the Blackpool services in question will have to stay 221 hauled unless a 805 becomes available as no replacement 807s or even 390s can go north of Crewe.

 

[800001]

Why didn't that start from BHM as booked?

Post 2698 mentions engineering possession preventing it accessing Birmingham.

So it started at Stafford as booked to do so, it’s a timetable amendment.

 

[31160]

Post 2698 mentions engineering possession preventing it accessing Birmingham.

So it started at Stafford as booked to do so, it’s a timetable amendment.

Arh far does, is that just for the week

 

[800001]

Which 807 is it likely to be?

807001 is the unit departed Merchant Park for Oxley.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Quite right, but just see the number of local passengers doing the Warrington-Wigan hop. It can be standing room only between those two stops.

That's true, but I doubt they are mainly Warrington-Wigan commuters.
Warrington picks up from Chester/North Wales and most of them will be going to Preston and well beyond.
There's a similar effect at Wigan with folk from Liverpool to the north.

 

[twpsaesneg]

How much of an issue is the power supply north of Crewe. In the past, there were heavy daytime freights hauled by pairs of Class 86s or 90s, and also Class 92s - with no obvious problems.

The problem is, although the FOC's are using more diesels now, they still have the rights to those electric paths and could switch to electric traction if they so wished. Also, the loading is calculated assuming that a feeder is out somewhere and alternate feeding has to be done, it's when this happens that the real constraints actually occur. NR electrical infrastructure is designed so that normal operations can still proceed in the event of a failure of a single feed, in some cases two feeds. After that operational restrictions need to be imposed.

So day-to-day additional electric trains running is OK (e.g. for testing / mileage accumulation) but they could be cancelled at short notice if a feeder is out or Freightliner decide to run electrics today, which doesn't work for a passenger timetable.

There are other factors at play as well which I can't go into without losing my job