Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[TT-ONR-NRN]

True enough - I forgot the seating capacity of each Evero coach is pretty good.
Edited original post.

I also edited my original post as I hadn't finished, please do re-read it

 

[Peter Sarf]

I also edited my original post as I hadn't finished, please do re-read it

That right. I was not going to go into so much detail. The Everos are basically a 221 replacement and for some extra services (Liverpool frequency).

To add to your explanation. It is hoped the better acceleration will overcome the lack of tilt. Currently not so definite as their top speed is (temporarily fingers crossed) limited in places. Certainly acceleration is more use on the services that stop more - that is where getting going again quicker is the real time (and track capacity) saver.

 

[Pendomonium]

That’s not entirely correct. First of all, the 807s are not just there to bolster the electric fleet, they are also to replace the Voyagers (there were 20 of those and 13 805s), and it’s worth pointing out that the 807s actually have equivalent (if not slightly more) standard class accommodation than a 9 carriage Pendolino anyway. The routes 807s work on are nothing to do with their capacity.

Everos are supposed to work the hourly slower service to Birmingham, not because 9 or 11 car services are not needed, but because Voyagers didn't just work to Chester and North Wales, they had a handful of services to Birmingham, and a handful of services to Scotland via Wolverhampton. An internal reshuffle a few years ago meant that a good few Voyagers replaced Pendolinos on Birmingham terminating services, allowing the Scotland services to become 100% Pendolino operated.

Then, it was made so that the stopping pattern - which was 1tph Birmingham calling at Watford then Coventry, 1tph Birmingham calling at Rugby then Coventry, and 1tph Birmingham (continuing to Scotland) calling at Milton Keynes then Coventry - would change so that 1tph Birmingham would provide all of the hourly calls for Watford, MKC and Rugby, and the other two (one continuing to Scotland) would be non stop.

Considering the 80x have better acceleration than the Pendolinos, and can't take advantage of tilt acceleration where it's best needed up in Scotland anyway, it was decided to make this stopping service Evero operated.

The 807 order was larger than it needed to be to cover Voyagers to allow for a second Liverpool service each hour, and this is why they've started to appear on Liverpools in place of 9-Pendolinos.

There have been recent murmurings regarding another potential move around, whereby 390s take on the additional Liverpool runs. However, any movement of the Evero fleet onto other routes would involve a lot more driver & TM training & given how "well" that has gone so far, I dont put much faith in the rumours.

That right. I was not going to go into so much detail. The Everos are basically a 221 replacement and for some extra services (Liverpool frequency).

To add to your explanation. It is hoped the better acceleration will overcome the lack of tilt. Currently not so definite as their top speed is (temporarily fingers crossed) limited in places. Certainly acceleration is more use on the services that stop more - that is where getting going again quicker is the real time (and track capacity) saver.

Everos on the West mids services are great for being able to nip in & out of stations ( subject to congestion, regulation, TPWS....)

 

[800001]

There have been recent murmurings regarding another potential move around, whereby 390s take on the additional Liverpool runs. However, any movement of the Evero fleet onto other routes would involve a lot more driver & TM training & given how "well" that has gone so far, I dont put much faith in the rumours.


Everos on the West mids services are great for being able to nip in & out of stations ( subject to congestion, regulation, TPWS....)

Has the training not gone well?

 

[poffle]

There have been recent murmurings regarding another potential move around, whereby 390s take on the additional Liverpool runs. However, any movement of the Evero fleet onto other routes would involve a lot more driver & TM training & given how "well" that has gone so far, I dont put much faith in the rumours.

I thought that the second Liverpool service had to be Evero operated as Selective Door Opening is required for Liverpool South Parkway.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I thought that the second Liverpool service had to be Evero operated as Selective Door Opening is required for Liverpool South Parkway.

Well, does anything say they must stop at South Parkway?

But yes Liverpool South Parkway is very short:

Plat.​	Metres​
1​	124​
2​	138​
3​	138​
4​	118​

 

[AndrewE]

I thought that the second Liverpool service had to be Evero operated as Selective Door Opening is required for Liverpool South Parkway.

I thought it was because the power supply N of Crewe couldn't handle any more electric trains, so they had to be on diesel for that bit?

 

[Trainbike46]

I thought it was because the power supply N of Crewe couldn't handle any more electric trains, so they had to be on diesel for that bit?

Most everos to Liverpool are 807s, as most 805s are needed for Chester and North Wales. 807s are electric only.

 

[AJDesiro]

I thought it was because the power supply N of Crewe couldn't handle any more electric trains, so they had to be on diesel for that bit?

805s don’t go to Liverpool on a planned basis, only if an 807 is unavailable. The Evero’s are running in place of 390s on the XX:43 services from Euston and Liverpool. These were always planned to be 807 operated but have always been run by 390s until late last year.

The power supply issues are only at certain hours AFAIK (something to do with freight?). So there isn’t an issue during the other hours of the day, hence why we are seeing some bouts of 2tph on the Liverpool runs, one of which is planned as an 807, and the other planned as a 390.

It wouldn’t be possible to run a 2tph service using 805s in place of the 807, since most are in use on the North Wales services, alongside a pair on Birminghams (which could easily be swapped with Liverpool runs). There isn’t really much flexibility in the fleets.

 

[DJH1971]

Then they will need to get 805002 in service pretty soon.

Extra North Wales to London train services being added by Avanti West Coast

The extra services will be in place later this month

www.dailypost.co.uk

 

[mansonlo49]

Then they will need to get 805002 in service pretty soon.

I saw on RTT today 805002 is allocated to headcode 1K95? Can anyone confirm is it true? Thanks

 

[Pendomonium]

I thought that the second Liverpool service had to be Evero operated as Selective Door Opening is required for Liverpool South Parkway.

Indeed. Im not sure how many non-SDO coaches would be of the platform with a 9 car pendo.

Has the training not gone well?

The whole program has, & continues to be in some respects,.... "challenging".

Any word on 807009 entering service yet?

It has been sat "auxed off" at WTCC for ages (at least up until this last week end). I did think I saw it out 19/05, but I wasnt paying that much attention & it could easily have been 805 009.

 

[DJH1971]

Indeed. Im not sure how many non-SDO coaches would be of the platform with a 9 car pendo.


The whole program has, & continues to be in some respects,.... "challenging".


It has been sat "auxed off" at WTCC for ages (at least up until this last week end). I did think I saw it out 19/05, but I wasnt paying that much attention & it could easily have been 805 009.

Seems to be be taking it's time getting into to service as the last few 807's got into service rather quickly after delivery.

Oh, and slightly off-topic here the 0643 LIV-EUS service (stopping at only Runcorn and London Euston) has now switched from a Pendolino to an Evero due to timetable changes. 807006 did the honours for today's diagram.

 

[mansonlo49]

Indeed. Im not sure how many non-SDO coaches would be of the platform with a 9 car pendo.


The whole program has, & continues to be in some respects,.... "challenging".


It has been sat "auxed off" at WTCC for ages (at least up until this last week end). I did think I saw it out 19/05, but I wasnt paying that much attention & it could easily have been 805 009.

Where's WTCC pls may I ask? Thank you

 

[Pep and co]

807009 booked on the 0916 Euston to Birmingham New Street this morning according to RTT

 

[Tilting007]

I saw on RTT today 805002 is allocated to headcode 1K95? Can anyone confirm is it true? Thanks

K headcode is common for trains terminating at Crewe.

 

[DJH1971]

807009 booked on the 0916 Euston to Birmingham New Street this morning according to RTT

Looks like it's debut into service.

That just leaves 807010 to be delivered now.

I wonder when that may be?

 

[800001]

Where's WTCC pls may I ask? Thx

I presume Wembley Train Care Centre but I am just presuming as it’s not an abbreviation I’ve seen before.

Looks like it's debut into service.

That just leaves 807010 to be delivered now.

I wonder when that may be?

Unless they are doing the tests that are normally completed outside at Aycliffe inside the factory instead, then it hasn’t completed or started any of that testing. So I would say still several weeks away

 

[DJH1971]

I presume Wembley Train Care Centre but I am just presuming as it’s not an abbreviation I’ve seen before.


Unless they are doing the tests that are normally completed outside at Aycliffe inside the factory instead, then it hasn’t completed or started any of that testing. So I would say still several weeks away

Would have thought they would have got it into service on time for the new timetable?

Anyway, 807009 is running but left EUS 4 minutes late.

 

[AndrewE]

I saw on RTT today 805002 is allocated to headcode 1K95? Can anyone confirm is it true? Thanks

K headcode is common for trains terminating at Crewe.

To see how headcodes work look at the front section of a Working Timetable, e.g. https://history.networkrail.co.uk/uncategorized/IO_21a8ac0e-07ea-4ecf-9010-45e4b7749e91/ which gives them for the LMR.
(I'm surprised to see E used for Nottingham/Derby as well as for the Eastern region as was.)

 

[mansonlo49]

K headcode is common for trains terminating at Crewe.

ok thanks but just want to know is 805002 into traffic? Thanks

I presume Wembley Train Care Centre but I am just presuming as it’s not an abbreviation I’ve seen before.

Thank you, this sound make sense

 

[800001]

ok thanks but just want to know is 805002 into traffic? Thanks


Thank you, this sound make sense

Yes 002 is in traffic.
Currently working 1247 Birmingham to Euston, RTT path attached below.

Realtime Trains | 1B41 1247 Birmingham New Street to London Euston | 20/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 1B41 1247 departure from Birmingham New Street to London Euston on 20/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Railperf]

Considering the 80x have better acceleration than the Pendolinos, and can't take advantage of tilt acceleration where it's best needed up in Scotland anyway, it was decided to make this stopping service Evero operated.

The 807 order was larger than it needed to be to cover Voyagers to allow for a second Liverpool service each hour, and this is why they've started to appear on Liverpools in place of 9-Pendolinos.

Point one, the Class 807's slightly better acceleration is only worth 20 seconds from a station start if both trains are running at the same top speed. But where an Evero is running at only 110mph , this advantage is short lived and the Pendolino is level after 11 miles and now heading into the distance with a 15mph superior top speed.
In reality this translates to an 807 being around a minute slower between Euston and Watford Jn, Watford Jn and Milton Keynes and Milton Keynes to Rugby sections. Of course we have to remember that the 807s have to reduce speed in several locations where the Pendolino's are still allowed the full 125mph or a slightly lesser 120mph.
That's why the Euston to Liverpool services are timed slower than they would be if expected to be served by 390's.
I note the latest timetable sees a 2 min earlier start for 807 Liverpool services - presumably to make up for the fact they cannot run at the proposed MU limits. But that is currently offset by the ongoing signalling issue near Euston which is creating a 2 to 3 minutes delay to all services on the fast lines through Primrose Hill tunnel.

Point two, Avanti publicly said it ordered the 805/807 fleet to reduce running on diesel and eliminate diesel running under the wires - whilst increasing some service frequencies - notably the second service to Liverpool per hour.

 

[DJH1971]

Yes 002 is in traffic.
Currently working 1247 Birmingham to Euston, RTT path attached below.

Realtime Trains | 1B41 1247 Birmingham New Street to London Euston | 20/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 1B41 1247 departure from Birmingham New Street to London Euston on 20/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That means all the 805's are in service at last.

 

[Zakaria Fadel]

807009 already out in traffic

 

[800001]

807009 already out in traffic

post 3915

 

[Peter Sarf]

807009 already out in traffic

Do you mean it entered service before the service referred to in the following post ?

807009 booked on the 0916 Euston to Birmingham New Street this morning according to RTT

(Posted 07:42 this morning.)

 

[Sorcerer]

My friend showed me a picture earlier today of 807007 now running in passenger traffic as well. Looked to be the 0843 from Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston. In fact according to Real Time Trains it looks like most of the Liverpool services are now Evero trains with only a few extra ones throughout the day being a Pendolino. I've heard that Avanti want to have the full two trains per hour running in the December timetable but is there any actual evidence or even a reasonable chance of this happening?

 

[800001]

My friend showed me a picture earlier today of 807007 now running in passenger traffic as well. Looked to be the 0843 from Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston. In fact according to Real Time Trains it looks like most of the Liverpool services are now Evero trains with only a few extra ones throughout the day being a Pendolino. I've heard that Avanti want to have the full two trains per hour running in the December timetable but is there any actual evidence or even a reasonable chance of this happening?

Except 807010, all of the class 805 and 807 units are in passenger service.

 

[DJH1971]

My friend showed me a picture earlier today of 807007 now running in passenger traffic as well. Looked to be the 0843 from Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston. In fact according to Real Time Trains it looks like most of the Liverpool services are now Evero trains with only a few extra ones throughout the day being a Pendolino. I've heard that Avanti want to have the full two trains per hour running in the December timetable but is there any actual evidence or even a reasonable chance of this happening?

807007 has been in service for the last few months.