Project Mapping all stations map

[tractakid]

Here's the brand new version of the fantastic Project Mapping all stations zoomable map.

http://www.projectmapping.co.uk/Resources/TOCs AS v7.2 April 2014.pdf

I have studied the map in a fairly detailed way and have been in contact with the author offering as much constructive criticism as I have been able to come up with. Some of which came from a now locked thread here on RailUK. Lots of these criticisms have been incorporated into the map, and have been gratefully received.

So I was wondering, what is left to change, if anything?

For clear cut 'mistakes or omissions',

1) I have noticed one thing since sending off my last email- Grand Central calling at Mirfield is not shown.

However, I feel there are other topics which are much harder to deal with. These topics can often be considered a can of worms,


1) Limited service- which routes should be omitted entirely, which routes should be shown as limited service, and which routes should be considered full service? Contradictions perhaps include the curve between Mistley and Ipswich being considered full service (Which I disagree with- there are two trains a day in each direction) , whereas Southern's offering round the Sutton Loop is considered limited service (Which I agree with). Should there be a numeric cut off point, or should each section of track be examined on a case by case basis? As for omitting routes- there are a lot of diversionary routes that have a daily/weekly train in the WTT which do not offer new journey opportunities. Should Virgin really be shown to operate via Heald Green, and Alsager, for example?

2) Whether to show a TOC stopping at a certain station. There are some stations that receive a very sparse service from a TOC that usually pass through a station. Examples include Adlington which gets a weekly service from Transpennine Express. There are a lot of stations on the map which show TOCs that make limited calls- like Transpennine Express at Motherwell, and also those that don't, like Transpennine Express at Lostock. These inconsistencies, in my opinion, would best be sorted out, but it's a tough job.

3) The interchange symbol. I am struggling to grasp the logic of where this is used. Why not Stevenage? Why Plymouth, and why Bangor? Is it used simply to highlight important stations, and isn't actually an interchange symbol at all?

This sort of situation is ideal for some superb pedantry (I am a bit of one myself), so do your best people of Railforums!

 

[Railsigns]

Borders Railway to Tweedbank "opening 2014"??

 

[transmanche]

Scotrail being shown between Carlisle and Newcastle. (The Newcastle-Glasgow runs are a joint Scotrail-Northern service. And whilst it uses Scotrail stock, it's operated by Northern east of Carlisle.

 

[tractakid]

Scotrail being shown between Carlisle and Newcastle. (The Newcastle-Glasgow runs are a joint Scotrail-Northern service. And whilst it uses Scotrail stock, it's operated by Northern east of Carlisle.

I agree, and was one of the concerns I raised, but the author seems to have chosen to keep that the way it is.

 

[68000]

Southeastern shown north of Blackfriars
Ferry connection from Holyhead to Dublin is missing

Edit: great map!

 

[dave55uk]

As maps go, it looks quite nice. Would have preferred the true outline of the country as opposed to what is there.

 

[rebmcr]

The Piccadilly line curve-meeting-straight at South Ealing isn't the same width, which is variably noticeable at different zoom levels.

 

[tractakid]

The Piccadilly line curve-meeting-straight at South Ealing isn't the same width, which is variably noticeable at different zoom levels.

I don't see this issue at all, using Google Chrome.

 

[tony_mac]

Ferry connection from Holyhead to Dublin is missing

The ferry links from Liverpool / Birkenhead are also wrong.
(I also don't see the point of showing a ferry link that doesn't accept foot passengers)

 

[umontu]

No ferries go from Fleetwood anymore.

 

[tractakid]

Ferries are clearly not my area of expertise!

 

[berneyarms]

The Chiltern occasional service towards Paddington vanishes into thin air at Old Oak Common - it should continue into Paddington.

The c2c occasional service towards Liverpool Street vanishes at Forest Gate - it should continue into Liverpool Street.

Early morning only Northern service (2F80) between Scunthorpe and Cleethorpes is missing.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Add to that list of omissions, the Sundays Only 1554 EMT service from Norwich to Manchester that bypasses Ely is not shown. It needs a hatched line linking the lines from Norwich and to Peterborough.

 

[crewmeal]

No connection between Bescot Stadium and Wolverhampton. There used to be a service from there to Walsall. Also Trains use it as a diversion at times.

 

[Altnabreac]

Ferries wise in Scotland there are some inconsistencies.

The map definitely needs to show Gourock - Kilcreggan, this is a longstanding service which also appears in the NRT and Scotrail timetables.

If you are showing ferries which appear in the NRT and are linked to the rail network by a bus link why does Scrabster - Stromness appear (with a bus symbol when its actually a taxi link) but Ullapool - Stornoway and Uig - Tarbert/Lochmaddy don't appear?

Mallaig - Lochboisdale is also missing which is in the current NRT but may not be a permanent service for ever more.

Ardrossan - Campbeltown (summer only) is perhaps fine to miss out as its a pilot service and not in the NRT but it is shown in current Scotrail timetables.

Even with the stylised map the location of Craignure on the Mull triangle is very poor. To show Kilcreggan accurately will also need some work to the Clyde coastline where the location of Dunoon is a bit odd as well.

At Cowlairs the Fort William sleeper routes are inaccurate, only the Cowlairs North - Cowlairs West junction is shown and labelled as the route of the sleeper. This route is used by a summer Sunday Edinburgh - Oban service (both ways) and the sleeper (southbound only). Northbound the sleeper goes via Falkirk Grahamston and Cumbernauld and thus needs a limited service route shown from Springburn - Ashfield via Sighthill East and West junctions.

 

[GodAtum]

A great map to have on my ipad!

 

[rebmcr]

The Piccadilly line curve-meeting-straight at South Ealing isn't the same width, which is variably noticeable at different zoom levels.

I don't see this issue at all, using Google Chrome.

Try Adobe Reader.

 

[Cletus]

No ferries go from Fleetwood anymore.

Or Folkestone

 

[tractakid]

The Chiltern occasional service towards Paddington vanishes into thin air at Old Oak Common - it should continue into Paddington.

The c2c occasional service towards Liverpool Street vanishes at Forest Gate - it should continue into Liverpool Street.

I think this is fair enough- I assume it is mainly for space reasons.

Early morning only Northern service (2F80) between Scunthorpe and Cleethorpes is missing.

Yeah, it is, I noticed this. I think the author is hesitant to put once a day in one direction only services on the map, hence the omission of the XC service that starts at Bath.

Add to that list of omissions, the Sundays Only 1554 EMT service from Norwich to Manchester that bypasses Ely is not shown. It needs a hatched line linking the lines from Norwich and to Peterborough.

Once a week in one direction, I really don't feel this has a place on the map.

No connection between Bescot Stadium and Wolverhampton. There used to be a service from there to Walsall. Also Trains use it as a diversion at times.

This is now a once a week service, so I feel is also fairly omitted.

At Cowlairs the Fort William sleeper routes are inaccurate, only the Cowlairs North - Cowlairs West junction is shown and labelled as the route of the sleeper. This route is used by a summer Sunday Edinburgh - Oban service (both ways) and the sleeper (southbound only). Northbound the sleeper goes via Falkirk Grahamston and Cumbernauld and thus needs a limited service route shown from Springburn - Ashfield via Sighthill East and West junctions.

I think I noticed something was going on here but didn't feel I had enough of an understanding to be able to suggest an improvement.

Finally, I have noticed limited SWT service between Bedhampton and Cosham is omitted.

 

[kieron]

Do you know what changes have been made for this version? I notice that the Stockport-Stalybridge line has appeared (which pleases me as the map is promoted as an "all station" one), the line between Styal and Heald Green avoiding Manchester Airport has disappeared (I'm not sure about Northern, but Arriva, Crosscountry and Virgin all send some passengers that way), and a number of routes are shown as used by different TOCs compared to the last published version. Do you have a list?

I do hope Andrew Smithers knows that things will change again next month when TPE start serving Victoria.

 

[ASharpe]

Bradford Airport bus
Is the bus from Bradford Interchange to Leeds Bradford International Airstrip (LBA) really anything to do with the rail network?

BR fares says the only through fares are via Leeds.
e.g. http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=BDI&dest=XLB

And at Christmas when buses are not running, but trains are, only the Leeds to Airport bus service runs.


Grand Central West Yorkshire
Do people consider Pontefract Monkhill to be a limited service? (And not the whole route)

The train only goes that way about half the time, the rest of the time going the usual East Coast route out of Doncaster up to Fitzwilliam. So in total at most 3 southbound and 2 northbound.

Which TOCs stop at Doncaster, I can't work out if it is trying to show EMT or GC (West Yorks.) stopping there. It should be both shouldn't it?

 

[tractakid]

Do you know what changes have been made for this version? Do you have a list?

The changes I have suggested and seen implemented since my first correspondance with Mr Smithers are

XC now shown as calling at Whittlesea, March, Lostwithiel, Cupar
TP now shown as calling at Barnetby, Habrough, Bare Lane, Horwich Parkway and Buckshaw Parkway
SR now shown as calling at Watford Junction
AW now shown as calling at Smethwick Galton Bridge
GR now shown as calling at Shipley and Horsforth
CH now shown as calling at Heyford and Tackley
SE now shown as calling at Loughborough Junction

EM no longer shown as stopping at Meadowhall, Stallingborough, Healing, Great Coates, Grimsby Docks, New Clee, Seamer or Malton
GR no longer shown as stopping at Dalwhinnie
FC no longer shown as stopping at Gipsy Hill, West Norwood, Purley, Coulsdon South, Merstham
GW no longer shown as stopping at Winnersh Triangle and Earley
CH no longer shown as stopping at Small Heath
NT no longer shown as stopping at Belper, Duffield, Spondon, Long Eaton, Attenborough or Beeston

Heysham Port now shown as limited service
EM Grimsby to Cleethorpes now shown as limited service
EM avoiding Grantham now shown as limited service
VT Stafford to Stoke now shown as limited service
XC to Guildford now shown as limited service
XC via Adwick now shown as limited service
Barnehurst to Slade Green now shown as full service
LM via Claverdon upgraded to full service
AW curves avoiding Carmarthen and Swansea shown as limited service

LM service via Weedon now shown
SE via Loughborough Junction now added as limited service.
LO service to Battersea Park added as a limited service.
NT no longer shown as avoiding Manchester Airport- only used by all the other TOCs via Styal for route knowledge purposes only.
NT no longer shown on the AW side of the triangle at Earlestown
GW no longer shown via Eastleigh, as this is for route knowledge only and didn't call publically on this route.
GW no longer showing avoiding Gloucester
LE no longer shown between Stansted and Elsenham
Stockport to Stalybridge line added for the purpose of 'All Stations'
Heathrow Connect added

Energlyn and Churchill Park added
Coombe Valley Junction now called Coombe Junction Halt, Wishing Well Halt suffix added to St Keyne
No longer the LU Docklands Light Railway
Newark Northgate no longer shown as 2 unconnected blobs


I think that is it.

 

[umontu]

Ferries are clearly not my area of expertise!

Fair enough, but you asked for pedantry, or at least implied it, if I am to be pedantic.

 

[WatcherZero]

Eccles looks a bit funny, the Metrolink and National rail station are seperate as indeed they are on the map, but theres only one nametag which may confuse some people.

Patricroft is practically next to Eccles but appears miles away on the map.

Metrolink 2CC line doesnt appear under construction like the rest of the future lines.

Blackpool North line could probably do with a more diagonal representation.

Only a few small niggles.

 

[tractakid]

Fair enough, but you asked for pedantry, or at least implied it, if I am to be pedantic.

The whole purpose of the thread is for others to pick up things that I miss. So, good job!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

There's still a lot of inconsistency with what stations TPE serve - Lostock and Leyland receive a similar level of service to Layton, yet the former two are omitted - on a similar note the limited EMT service along the Hope Valley local stations is shown.

Surely if you're going to include Stockport-Stalybridge then Walsall-Wolves direct should be on there too - they both have the same service frequency!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There also doesn't seem to be a clear distinction on what's limited service: Stockport-Chinley on NT is shown as such and has 3tpd in total, but Moorthorpe-Sherburn via Baghill is 4tpd and isn't.

 

[berneyarms]

Surely if you're going to include Stockport-Stalybridge then Walsall-Wolves direct should be on there too - they both have the same service frequency!

Similarly the points that I made above:

The Chiltern occasional service towards Paddington vanishes into thin air at Old Oak Common - it should continue into Paddington.

The c2c occasional service towards Liverpool Street vanishes at Forest Gate - it should continue into Liverpool Street.

Early morning only Northern service (2F80) between Scunthorpe and Cleethorpes is missing.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Add to that list of omissions, the Sundays Only 1554 EMT service from Norwich to Manchester that bypasses Ely is not shown. It needs a hatched line linking the lines from Norwich and to Peterborough.

 

[tractakid]

There's still a lot of inconsistency with what stations TPE serve - Lostock and Leyland receive a similar level of service to Layton, yet the former two are omitted - on a similar note the limited EMT service along the Hope Valley local stations is shown.

Completely agree. I would argue that any station with at least a daily service should be shown with a dot.

While a single stop per day at a station may not be important for a a TOC, it may well be important for a station. Harling Road for example. The daily EM service that stops there provides half of the station's services towards Ely per day.

I notified Mr Smithers about these TP/EMT calls and he chose not to include them, I quote-

With regard to TP between Preston and Bolton

"It's difficult to make completely finite rules and one often has to make a judgement. For example those TPX stops Preston to Bolton are very minor and surely not part of TPs main purpose? A similar situation exists with EMT showing it stops at every station between Liverpool and Sheffield - not part of its main purpose."

With regard to EM between Norwich and Ely:

"Not sure about that, their main aim is to Liverpool not stopping at small stations even though they include them on their map"

With regard to TP between Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport

"Possibly, rarely, but not their main reason for serving that line."

Surely if you're going to include Stockport-Stalybridge then Walsall-Wolves direct should be on there too - they both have the same service frequency!

Yes, it has the same frequency. But the difference, in my opinion, is that no new stations are being served. In terms of frequency SPT-SYB shouldn't appear, but I feel that if it is an 'all stations' map, it should have all the stations on it.

There also doesn't seem to be a clear distinction on what's limited service: Stockport-Chinley on NT is shown as such and has 3tpd in total, but Moorthorpe-Sherburn via Baghill is 4tpd and isn't.

The reason given for not showing the curve between Mistley and Ipswich as limited service is that limited service is "Around one train a day"

I think 'limited service' is a huge can of worms.

Some lines don't need a frequent service. The 6tpd to Blaenau Ffestiniog, while not particularly frequent, is adequate for it's needs. The Far North line, again, I don't think needs to be labelled as limited service despite only receiving 4tpd. Southeastern via Loughborough Junction gets a larger number of services than that, but compared to SE's other routes definitely is a limited service.

What about XC to Aberdeen? 2 arrivals/departures per day from ABD, but I don't feel it needs designating as limited.

One line I am considering suggesting for limited service is Goole to Knottingley. 2tpd towards Leeds, one to Goole. Do people agree that I suggest this? Of course- anyone is able to suggest anything they like of their own accord too!

 

[kieron]

3) The interchange symbol. I am struggling to grasp the logic of where this is used. Why not Stevenage? Why Plymouth, and why Bangor? Is it used simply to highlight important stations, and isn't actually an interchange symbol at all?

Thanks for giving the list. I can certainly see why the version number went from 6.7 to 7.2 now.

The interchange symbol is a bit of a mess. There are 539 stations listed in the usage estimates as having been used as interchanges in 2012-3, and I haven't noticed any clear pattern to which are included or excluded. Plymouth's a pretty useful one, though, as it's where trains for the Looe and Gunnislake branches terminate.

I appreciate that the question of what services to show as normal ones, what as limited ones, and what to omit altogether is a complicated one, as it depends on what you want from a map. I often use it to look for valid routes, so I'd find it useful if every route a train uses was shown in some way. I'm sure Andrew Smithers's paying customers have other priorities.

Incidentally, one problem I've noticed with the map is that Northfleet is in the wrong place. It's shown as being between Ebbsfleet and Gravesend, but is actually just north of the former, and the other side of the junction.

 

[tractakid]

Map has been updated for May. Seems like Bedhampton has accidentally lost it's SWT service when the limited section to Cosham was added. Oops!

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/nationalrailnetworkmapZoom.pdf

 

[swt_passenger]

Map has been updated for May. Seems like Bedhampton has accidentally lost it's SWT service when the limited section to Cosham was added. Oops!

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/nationalrailnetworkmapZoom.pdf

How is the decision made on whether to show a route as 'limited'? SWT run more weekday passenger services (five) along the top of the Farlington triangle than FGW (three), so why are SWT shown limited and FGW 'normal'?