Project Oval: TfL win DfT contract to expand contactless system to 233 rail stations by May 2024, Railcards coming to contactless payment cards

[MrJeeves]

There has to be a line drawn somewhere.

Also definitely!

We'd end up adding the whole network by the end of closing the edge cases.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

There has to be a line drawn somewhere.

There does but given Hove's proximity to Brighton and its purpose as a junction for London Victoria - Littlehampton and West Coastway - Brighton services makes it pretty silly for it to technically be not a valid route.

 

[etr221]

I put an overlay onto a Project Mapping map earlier in this thread in post 743.

Project Oval: TfL win DfT contract to expand contactless system to 233 rail stations by May 2024, Railcards coming to contactless payment cards

c2c has issued a press release: Rail operator c2c is pleased to announce the introduction of a new and simplified fares and ticketing model from Sunday 3 December. In preparation for the launch of contactless pay as you go across its entire rail network, c2c is introducing a new and...

www.railforums.co.uk

Blue is existing PAYG network, with green being Phase 1 and yellow being Phase 2. I don't think a list or map split into 2a/2b has been released.

Thanks. So no actual list of the 233 yet...

There does but given Hove's proximity to Brighton and its purpose as a junction for London Victoria - Littlehampton and West Coastway - Brighton services makes it pretty silly for it to technically be not a valid route.

One of the issues when you start extending the system to places like Brighton is that there is or will be a demand for it be extended based on them being 'centres' in their own right (so from Brighton along Coastway in both directions, to match going inland), rather than 'just a bit further from London'. And before you know it, you'll have contactless areas bumping into each other...

And as contactless spreads to become a 'normal' way of paying the argument that some places don't have enough traffic to justify it is going become difficult to justify...

 

[ThameslinkUser]

One of the issues when you start extending the system to places like Brighton is that there is or will be a demand for it be extended based on them being 'centres' in their own right (so from Brighton along Coastway in both directions, to match going inland), rather than 'just a bit further from London'. And before you know it, you'll have contactless areas bumping into each other...

Of course, I understand this, however Hove is a key route for accessing Brighton from London. It is 1 station. It would not highly encourage the rest of the coastway.

 

[Farigiraf]

Any reason why PAYG is shown to eventually come to Maidstone West, as well as Tonbridge, but not the part of the Medway Valley line between Paddock Wood and East Farleigh? Is it to do with London services e.g the limited HS1 service to Maidstone W?

 

[MrJeeves]

Any reason why PAYG is shown to eventually come to Maidstone West, as well as Tonbridge, but not the part of the Medway Valley line between Paddock Wood and East Farleigh? Is it to do with London services e.g the limited HS1 service to Maidstone W?

I'd expect it to be partially that and partially just covering Maidstone generally so that people don't complain about one station in the town having it and the other not, otherwise I'd expect loads of extra confusion.

 

[Haywain]

I'd expect it to be partially that and partially just covering Maidstone generally so that people don't complain about one station in the town having it and the other not, otherwise I'd expect loads of extra confusion.

I guess that it also avoids having to have separate fares to different Maidstone stations.

 

[viscountviktor]

Can someone explain to me how this works without a contactless cap consistent across all train operators and phasing out tickets?

Otherwise why would someone tap in and out when they can probably evade paying as much due to no revenue protection across the network?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Otherwise why would someone tap in and out when they can probably evade paying as much due to no revenue protection across the network?

What is the difference between that and classic paper/e-tickets?

 

[Adam Williams]

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/peak/ has now been updated with the details of phase 0.1132.

 

[Edvid]

Relevant bit quoted below:

From Sunday 30 June 2024, you’ll be able to pay as you go with a contactless card or device at another 6 National Rail stations. They are:

• Denham
• Denham Golf Club
• Gerrards Cross
• Seer Green & Jordans
• Beaconsfield
• High Wycombe
  

We’re also preparing to introduce pay as you go with contactless at 47 more National Rail stations across the South East soon. [...]

Basically, 11.32% of Phase 1 (along the Chiltern Main Line - "1A"?) is planned to go live within 3 weeks.

 

[Haywain]

Relevant bit quoted below:


Basically, 11.32% of Phase 1 (along the Chiltern Main Line - "1A"?) is planned to go live within 3 weeks.

It also says this:

You will no longer be able to buy a Super Off-Peak ticket on journeys where pay as you go with contactless is, or soon will be available, however the price of Off-Peak tickets has been reduced to reflect this.

Of course, this applies except where it doesn't - for example on the Great Northern, Midland Main Line, Brighton main line.

 

[SWT_USER]

Relevant bit quoted below:


Basically, 11.32% of Phase 1 (along the Chiltern Main Line - "1A"?) is planned to go live within 3 weeks.

It's still a complete circus then. Meanwhile the remaining 90% of stations are still being ripped off with higher fares and none of the promised benefits

 

[Starmill]

Apparently there are some pretty serious implementation issues with converting the taps to accurate prices which are the cause of the delay, so it will be interesting to see if the implementation of fares matching to touches is actually correct against what the advertised fare on the finder is when this initial Chiltern served extension opens.

 

[CyrusWuff]

It's still a complete circus then. Meanwhile the remaining 90% of stations are still being ripped off with higher fares and none of the promised benefits

Paper fares for the remaining stations changed in December, with Singles being priced at half the price of the Return, so the main difference is that Contactless isn't available yet.

 

[SWT_USER]

Paper fares for the remaining stations changed back in December, with Singles being priced at half the price of the Return, so the main difference is that Contactless isn't available yet.

Is that right? I hadn't been looking particularly closely but wasn't aware the cheap 'Sunday out' fares had returned on SWR.

 

[Haywain]

Is that right? I hadn't been looking particularly closely but wasn't aware the cheap 'Sunday out' fares had returned on SWR.

You're reading it wrongly. It was "back in December" that they changed, not that they "changed back".

 

[CyrusWuff]

You're reading it wrongly. It was "back in December" that they changed, not that they "changed back".

My bad. I have removed the "back" in the original post to make it clearer.

 

[SWT_USER]

You're reading it wrongly. It was "back in December" that they changed, not that they "changed back".

Thanks, that makes more sense and I stand by my complaint!

 

[paul1609]

I guess that it also avoids having to have separate fares to different Maidstone stations.

When I was a boy Maidstone West and the valley line were somewhat of a rural backwater. When doing some reasearch on another topic I was surprised to note that in last years ORR figures Maidstone West and Barracks now have combined entry and exit figures of 860,000 compared to East's 1m and that Barracks and Wests primary destination is now London St Pancras thats a massive turnround and I suggest its down to HS1 changing at Strood providing easy access to docklands at Stratford etc.

 

[778]

When contactless has been implemented at all of the stations proposed for both phase 1 and phase 2, will that finally be the end of outboundary travelcards?

 

[Benjwri]

When contactless has been implemented at all of the stations proposed for both phase 1 and phase 2, will that finally be the end of outboundary travelcards?

I would certainly hope not, but I fear it could be.

There are a huge amount of stations with outboundary travelcards which aren’t included, especially places like the Thames Valley past Reading that is less than an hour from London.

 

[Goldfish62]

I would certainly hope not, but I fear it could be.

There are a huge amount of stations with outboundary travelcards which aren’t included, especially places like the Thames Valley past Reading that is less than an hour from London.

Didcot, Swindon, Newbury, Oxford, for example I should imagine.

 

[MrJeeves]

Didcot, Swindon, Newbury, Oxford, for example I should imagine.

Skipping the Thames Valley, we have places like Horsham and Crawley, too, within about 40 minutes of London Terminals.

 

[paul1609]

Skipping the Thames Valley, we have places like Horsham and Crawley, too, within about 40 minutes of London Terminals.

Crawley and Horsham within 40 mins of London Terminals? Oh really.
The fastest Horsham to Victoria service is 55mins not quite equalling the express timings when the elecctrified service was introduced in err 1938.

 

[778]

I would certainly hope not, but I fear it could be.

There are a huge amount of stations with outboundary travelcards which aren’t included, especially places like the Thames Valley past Reading that is less than an hour from London.

Will off peak paper tickets still be kept after contactless is rolled out, at least for the forseable future?

 

[Trainlog]

When I was a boy Maidstone West and the valley line were somewhat of a rural backwater. When doing some reasearch on another topic I was surprised to note that in last years ORR figures Maidstone West and Barracks now have combined entry and exit figures of 860,000 compared to East's 1m and that Barracks and Wests primary destination is now London St Pancras thats a massive turnround and I suggest its down to HS1 changing at Strood providing easy access to docklands at Stratford etc.

It's an improvement on what it was even 2 years ago. The half-hourly service has made the line a lot more usable since December 2022 - the frustration of waiting at Strood for 50 minutes if you have just missed the connection was bad, and I believe Southeastern has improved the connections in the last timetable change last week.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Crawley and Horsham within 40 mins of London Terminals? Oh really.

No need for that tone given, by your own admission, these timings are possible.

 

[Trainlog]

Any reason why PAYG is shown to eventually come to Maidstone West, as well as Tonbridge, but not the part of the Medway Valley line between Paddock Wood and East Farleigh? Is it to do with London services e.g the limited HS1 service to Maidstone W?

Yeah its probably has partially to do with London services at Maidstone West and Tonbridge and also that part of the line has problems with fare dodging as there are no barriers at stations like Paddock Wood and the guard has little time to check tickets as they are often dispatching the train for most of the journey due to the stop start nature of the route.

Whilst this stretch of the Medway Valley gets a lot of engineering works, it does feel neglected. East Farleigh station has seen better days unfortunately and Maidstone West does have a bad pigeon-dropping problem on its platforms. It doesn't help there is a decent number 7 bus service from Maidstone to Tunbridge Wells that follows a fair bit of the route.

 

[jfollows]

I would certainly hope not, but I fear it could be.

There are a huge amount of stations with outboundary travelcards which aren’t included, especially places like the Thames Valley past Reading that is less than an hour from London.

Crewe, for example.