Projects you'd build but will (probably) never happen

[Austriantrain]

Out of interest, when continental electrification projects happen how much rebuilding of the bridges etc has to take place?

Much less because of the larger clearance. It does happen though.

I always point this out for instance in Austrian forums to defend the UK. Still, given our investment profile, a much larger part of the UK network would be electrified.

 

[zwk500]

Much less because of the larger clearance. It does happen though.

I always point this out for instance in Austrian forums to defend the UK. Still, given our investment profile, a much larger part of the UK network would be electrified.

Part of the issue then is that because your network is already much more electrified, the network and strategic value of investment is increased. A classic example is freight - clearing UK lines to Container clearance is extremely expensive because of all the bridges and so on that need rebuilding. This means electrification doesn't often contribute to freight seriously, whereas in Europe because the normal loading gauge is much friendlier to containers electrification can assist freight.
It would be interesting to see a comparative analysis of the capital investment in the rail industry across Europe.

 

[HSTEd]

I always point this out for instance in Austrian forums to defend the UK. Still, given our investment profile, a much larger part of the UK network would be electrified.

Ultimately the Railway Industry has been far from helpful to its own interests.

The runaway increase in costs on all major railway projects of recent times has rather poisoned the reputation of the railway with policy makers.

 

[stuu]

Ultimately the Railway Industry has been far from helpful to its own interests.

The runaway increase in costs on all major railway projects of recent times has rather poisoned the reputation of the railway with policy makers.

It's not just the railways though, it's construction in general. Look how much more roads cost here than in our neighbouring countries. £30m+ a mile for a basic dual carriageway in the countryside. Even Norway can do it for less

 

[zwk500]

It's not just the railways though, it's construction in general. Look how much more roads cost here than in our neighbouring countries. £30m+ a mile for a basic dual carriageway in the countryside. Even Norway can do it for less

Not too surprising, there's nobody to complain.

 

[Magdalia]

Single London/South East Airport, either near Shivering Sands or off Brighton. Four runways, two (huge) terminals and designed to approach the throughput of Hartsfield-Jackson airport in the US.

My preference for a new London Airport would be North-West of the conurbation between the M40 and M1, as I feel the flattening a Chiltern is no less unlikely than raising the English Channel seabed.

Calvert would be the ideal location for a replacement airport. Shame it didn't happen in the 1970s... Now the Eastern side of HS2 has been cancelled there would be capacity to serve it too.

There will probably be a Chilterns Airport at some point

The best location for this was identified by the Roskill Commission half a century ago: Cublington between Leighton Buzzard and Aylesbury. Now I'd move it a bit to be adjacent to where HS2 crosses EWR.

But it didn't happen in the 1970s and won't happen now.

 

[Silenos]

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The best location for this was identified by the Roskill Commission half a century ago: Cublington between Leighton Buzzard and Aylesbury. Now I'd move it a bit to be adjacent to where HS2 crosses EWR.

But it didn't happen in the 1970s and won't happen now.

as you say, it won’t happen, but if it did the chances of it being moved to allow easy access by rail seem non-existent, as the U.K. has a long and proud tradition of building things like airports without any convenient rail access.

 

[Austriantrain]

Part of the issue then is that because your network is already much more electrified, the network and strategic value of investment is increased. A classic example is freight - clearing UK lines to Container clearance is extremely expensive because of all the bridges and so on that need rebuilding. This means electrification doesn't often contribute to freight seriously, whereas in Europe because the normal loading gauge is much friendlier to containers electrification can assist freight.

It’s true, but unlike Switzerland, it’s not true that in Austria, everything has been electrified almost „since ever“. A lot was done in the 1950s and 1960s and we continued consistently from there.

Anyway, I will continue my list: a high-speed line from Exeter to Plymouth to have an alternative to Dawlish and have shorter journey times to the South-West Ideally with a link between Paignton and Totnes.

 

[stuu]

{

as you say, it won’t happen, but if it did the chances of it being moved to allow easy access by rail seem non-existent, as the U.K. has a long and proud tradition of building things like airports without any convenient rail access.

When did we last even build a new airport? Are any newer than 1950? (Location not buildings obviously)

 

[Nick Ashwell]

When did we last even build a new airport? Are any newer than 1950? (Location not buildings obviously)

More to the point the vast majority are ex RAF bases, passenger transport to them wasn't important at all at the time of building

 

[JonathanH]

Remodelling of the lines at Twickenham Station, or anywhere else between there and Staines.

Will never happen.

 

[HSTEd]

The best location for this was identified by the Roskill Commission half a century ago: Cublington between Leighton Buzzard and Aylesbury. Now I'd move it a bit to be adjacent to where HS2 crosses EWR.

But it didn't happen in the 1970s and won't happen now.

It's the best location if you ignore all political factors.

But an airport there is entirely unbuildable.

Which is why the Government of the day promptly abandoned that location in favour of MapliN Sands.

 

[YourMum666]

Quad-Tracking the GWML all the way to Cardiff

 

[Austriantrain]

Four-track the approaches to Sheffield from both the South and the North, build another island platform in the station (by moving Supertram to the main entrance side); possibly have this additional platform be accessible directly from the Worksop side without touching the main lines.

 

[Bartsimho]

Four-track the approaches to Sheffield from both the South and the North, build another island platform in the station (by moving Supertram to the main entrance side); possibly have this additional platform be accessible directly from the Worksop side without touching the main lines.

I think in a thread a while ago I can't find it was looked at 4 tracking the north and that there appeared to be just about enough room with a bridge replacement.

 

[Flinn Reed]

An orbital railway around London, roughly following the M25, with interchange stations added with each existing rail route. Would be useful for shorter distance journeys between destinations in outer London or the home counties - or for longer distance journeys to avoid Central London.

 

[Northumbriana]

Full national 350kph core network with HS2 Eastern branch restored, core route doubled up with a direct Toton to London route and restoring and extending the Wigan branch to Preston.

Then a network of new 250kph lines to complete it from:

1. Preston to Penrith.
2. Carstairs to a new station in Glasgow with branches to the Edinburgh branch.
3. Darlington to Gateshead.
4. Killingworth to Acklington.
5. Drem to Edinburgh.
6. Old Oak Common - Heathrow - Reading.
7. Exeter to Plymouth.
8. Dunfermline to Perth & Dundee.
9. Manchester to Huddersfield - Leeds & Bradford and from Leeds to York.

And a link from HS1 through Camden into Euston HS2 platforms. I feel that with a more efficient use of platforms (I.e. perfecting turnaround times) Euston can be a hub for more HS trains from the North than currently envisaged and also overflow from HS1 and the GWML.

 

[Cach17]

-Reopening the Great Central Main Line from Aylesbury as far as Leicester.
-A connection between the Medway Valley line and the route from London Victoria to Ashford at Maidstone, connecting Medway with Ashford.
-A connection from HS1 to the LTS line towards Grays just north west of the Thames Tunnel (C2C High Speed, anyone?)
-Rail tunnel between Thurrock and North Kent (replacing the ferry)
-Actually build a more direct route between Leeds and York via Tadcaster as proposed in the 1840s (they built a viaduct though!)

 

[Bletchleyite]

A pragmatic Burscough Curves:

1. Extend Merseyrail via the South Curve to Burscough Bridge via Burscough Junction and a new station at Mill Dam Lane (probably just called Burscough South) to serve housing development around there - in time Burscough and Ormskirk will probably run together as Ormskirk and Aughton have. Build a new bay platform on the present car park for this to terminate (plenty of industrial land could be purchased quite cheaply for a replacement car park, or a deal could be done with Tesco for rail users to use that). Procure more battery units to enable this.

2. Reinstate the North Curve into Burscough Bridge. Run an hourly Preston-Southport service with two units. If the timings work, move the New Lane and Bescar Lane (2 hourly skip stop) calls onto this service so the Manchester service can be sped up and made properly clockface (Hoscar as a request stop). Reopen the station at Midge Hall. (On this I used to propose an hourly single unit service terminating at Burscough Bridge, but it looks like this would be too tight - if there are two units you might as well make decent use of them!).

3. Mothball the direct line between Rufford and Burscough Junction.

 

[L+Y]

A pragmatic Burscough Curves:

1. Extend Merseyrail via the South Curve to Burscough Bridge via Burscough Junction and a new station at Mill Dam Lane (probably just called Burscough South) to serve housing development around there - in time Burscough and Ormskirk will probably run together as Ormskirk and Aughton have. Build a new bay platform on the present car park for this to terminate (plenty of industrial land could be purchased quite cheaply for a replacement car park, or a deal could be done with Tesco for rail users to use that). Procure more battery units to enable this.

2. Reinstate the North Curve into Burscough Bridge. Run an hourly Preston-Southport service with two units. If the timings work, move the New Lane and Bescar Lane (2 hourly skip stop) calls onto this service so the Manchester service can be sped up and made properly clockface (Hoscar as a request stop). Reopen the station at Midge Hall. (On this I used to propose an hourly single unit service terminating at Burscough Bridge, but it looks like this would be too tight - if there are two units you might as well make decent use of them!).

3. Mothball the direct line between Rufford and Burscough Junction.

Agreed though I'm not convinced a third track could be fitted under the A59 bridge: probably better to go for a turnback siding immediately next to the sports club.

And rather than Midge Hall, I wonder if a better location for a station to serve South Ribble could be on Farington Curve, to support housing developments in the Penwortham area?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

A pragmatic Burscough Curves:

1. Extend Merseyrail via the South Curve to Burscough Bridge via Burscough Junction and a new station at Mill Dam Lane (probably just called Burscough South) to serve housing development around there - in time Burscough and Ormskirk will probably run together as Ormskirk and Aughton have. Build a new bay platform on the present car park for this to terminate (plenty of industrial land could be purchased quite cheaply for a replacement car park, or a deal could be done with Tesco for rail users to use that). Procure more battery units to enable this.

2. Reinstate the North Curve into Burscough Bridge. Run an hourly Preston-Southport service with two units. If the timings work, move the New Lane and Bescar Lane (2 hourly skip stop) calls onto this service so the Manchester service can be sped up and made properly clockface (Hoscar as a request stop). Reopen the station at Midge Hall. (On this I used to propose an hourly single unit service terminating at Burscough Bridge, but it looks like this would be too tight - if there are two units you might as well make decent use of them!).

3. Mothball the direct line between Rufford and Burscough Junction.

Would you retain Burscough Junction station under these plans? If everything was running through to Burscough Bridge, you could probably get away with closing it.

 

[YourMum666]

HS2 great western, have an OOC - Reading - Bristol - Cardiff - join the classic lines onto swansea, as well as a second branch towards Exeter (so Reading - Newbury - Exeter )

 

[islandmonkey]

HS2 great western, have an OOC - Reading - Bristol - Cardiff - join the classic lines onto swansea, as well as a second branch towards Exeter (so Reading - Newbury - Exeter )

Anything to free up paths on the Reading to Taunton to allow for more slower and/or more local services would surely be welcomed.

 

[takno]

HS2 great western, have an OOC - Reading - Bristol - Cardiff - join the classic lines onto swansea, as well as a second branch towards Exeter (so Reading - Newbury - Exeter )

If it's running at high speed it would probably make more sense for it to run via Bristol. The time penalty for the extra distance would be fairly minimal at speed, and you've got to try to save at least a bit of money

 

[Bartsimho]

And a link from HS1 through Camden into Euston HS2 platforms. I feel that with a more efficient use of platforms (I.e. perfecting turnaround times) Euston can be a hub for more HS trains from the North than currently envisaged and also overflow from HS1 and the GWML.

Cam we just move it so all High Speed trains are in the new Euston station or change some of the platform uses as the lack of domestic platforms at St Pancras hampers services along the MML.

 

[stuu]

Anything to free up paths on the Reading to Taunton to allow for more slower and/or more local services would surely be welcomed.

For who? The population along there is tiny, west of Newbury

 

[Bald Rick]

as the lack of domestic platforms at St Pancras hampers services along the MML.

No, it doesn’t.

 

[spyinthesky]

For who? The population along there is tiny, west of Newbury

I guess the thread title gives it away a little, that is why we all drive instead.

 

[MPW]

A link from dartford/gravesend to Essex. Instead of the new car tunnel. Similar idea floated for kenex tram but direction connection to existing rail lines will offer more connections and faster journeys. Maybe a tram could share the tunnel anyway.

 

[HSTEd]

HS2 great western, have an OOC - Reading - Bristol - Cardiff - join the classic lines onto swansea, as well as a second branch towards Exeter (so Reading - Newbury - Exeter )

As others have said, once you are running off five kilometres per minute the time delay from going via the Bristol area would be minimal.

I would suggest going via Oxford rather than Reading though, it would add less than two minutes to the journey time but would open up a significant new market. Reading would only see a few minutes in saved journey time in all likelihood, for Oxford it would be transformational.