Promise to Pay

[Steddenm]

At Sunderland station today I was having a look at the Northern massive ticket machines (same as the ones Translink have installed by the look of it but with very different software), and noticed a Promise to Pay option where it would issue a ticket voucher for nothing and then you pay the guard on the train in cash.

Now here's my question - the ticket machines couldn't accept credit or debit cards due to a fault but will still print the Promise to Pay voucher. What then happens if you want to pay by card on board? Are you not allowed to?

I tried the voucher and got one to Newcastle Central (I already have a Nexus pass so didn't really need it) and oddly it works the barriers at Newcastle and let's you through.

Is this a fault with the machine, barrier or mag strip on the ticket being encoded wrong?

 

[toffeedanish]

A Promise to Pay is for the specific scenario where a customer wishes to purchase using cash but only a non-cash TVM is available at origin. In the case of a non-working TVM you can pay by card on board.

I am not familiar with Newcastle Central, and in particular whether there is an excess fares window or machine, but if not then I imagine that the Promise to Pay is designed to open the barrier so that one can access ticket purchase facilities.

 

[TUC]

A Promise to Pay is for the specific scenario where a customer wishes to purchase using cash but only a non-cash TVM is available at origin. In the case of a non-working TVM you can pay by card on board.

I am not familiar with Newcastle Central, and in particular whether there is an excess fares window or machine, but if not then I imagine that the Promise to Pay is designed to open the barrier so that one can access ticket purchase facilities.

Surely it should also cover where a TVM is not accepting cards? It would seem a very narrow illogical approach for it to be otherwise.

 

[Wallsendmag]

A Promise to Pay is for the specific scenario where a customer wishes to purchase using cash but only a non-cash TVM is available at origin. In the case of a non-working TVM you can pay by card on board.

I am not familiar with Newcastle Central, and in particular whether there is an excess fares window or machine, but if not then I imagine that the Promise to Pay is designed to open the barrier so that one can access ticket purchase facilities.

Three X/S cash/card TVMs

 

[Mark J]

In today's climate I would say that more often than not people will promise NOT to pay, if they can bet away with it.

Therefore can't understand why this relic of BR days is still a thing.

Half the time now, there is no one selling tickets on a train, let alone checking them.

 

[Hadders]

Promise to Pay is not a BR relic. It was introduced by Northern in the last few years.

 

[30907]

Promise to Pay is not a BR relic. It was introduced by Northern in the last few years.

...and specifically in conjunction with the widespread rollout of card-only TVMs.

There was a BR-era "Permit to Travel" but ISTR only down south.

 

[Hadders]

...and specifically in conjunction with the widespread rollout of card-only

And the card only TVMs often being installed at stations that previously had no ticket purchasing facilities at all.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

...and specifically in conjunction with the widespread rollout of card-only TVMs.

There was a BR-era "Permit to Travel" but ISTR only down south.

Permits to Travel were not exclusive to the "south" wherever that is. They were extensively used across the Midlands and right into Cheshire.

 

[yorkie]

Now here's my question - the ticket machines couldn't accept credit or debit cards due to a fault but will still print the Promise to Pay voucher. What then happens if you want to pay by card on board? Are you not allowed to?

A Promise to Pay is a specific concept that Northern have introduced, which only applies to where you are boarding at a station without an open ticket office and are specifically paying in cash.

Do not obtain a Promise to Pay if you are paying by card; if there is working no machine at the origin, then you may simply board the train, and purchase at the first opportunity.

While there is no obligation to do anything of the sort, if it was me, I'd be taking a photo of the broken machine as evidence, in case anyone claimed it was working.

Surely it should also cover where a TVM is not accepting cards? It would seem a very narrow illogical approach for it to be otherwise.

To be clear, this is Northern who have implemented this concept.

Therefore, there can be no expectation that the approach is anything other than narrow and illogical!

 

[Mark J]

...and specifically in conjunction with the widespread rollout of card-only TVMs.

There was a BR-era "Permit to Travel" but ISTR only down south.

Sorry that is what I was thinking of.

However, isn't 'Promise to pay' essentially just a permit to travel.

 

[plugwash]

Therefore can't understand why this relic of BR days is still a thing.

"Promise to pay" exists because

* the railway accepts and has always accepted cash as a payment method
* Northern wanted/were pushed into a penalty fares scheme.
* Northern wanted to use card-only TVMs, which are cheaper to buy and maintain and less of a security issue than TVMs that take cash.

However, isn't 'Promise to pay' essentially just a permit to travel.

Similar but not quite the same.

Permit to travel machines took coins, and passengers were expected to pay as much as possible of their fare before boarding. I don't think it was tied to any particular payment method for the remaining fare. Promise to pay has no upfront payment, but the holder is expected to pay the fare in cash. People wanting to pay by card are expected to buy their tickets from the TVM.

Both serve to confirm the time and location where the passenger began their journey, discouraging short-faring.

 

[Hadders]

"Promise to pay" exists because

* the railway accepts and has always accepted cash as a payment method
* Northern wanted/were pushed into a penalty fares scheme.
* Northern wanted to use card-only TVMs, which are cheaper to buy and maintain and less of a security issue than TVMs that take cash.

And use of cash has declined massively over the last few decades. It is still a valid payment (and it's important that it remains) but thsi sort of scheme is a sensible workaround, all things considered.