Pros and cons of being a train driver

[cazlas10]

Which bit is concerning you?

The start and finish times, the rest time in between and the actual shift pattern. Unfortunately I don't have a body clock that can quickly adapt. A start time of 04.00 would mean having to get up at 03.00 latest which quite frankly sounds dreadful as I know I wouldn't be able to get to sleep. I'm not the sort of person that can just sleep on demand and get to sleep as soon as my head hits the pillow regardless of how early it is. Now this wouldn't be so bad if I were on this shift for a long period of time because I could adapt to that and get my body clock into a routine so that I was able to get to sleep at 8-9PM and get sufficient hours sleep. However I have a feeling that this isn't how it will work and instead there will be constant weekly chopping and changing from early starts to late finishes into the early hours with only 1 or 2 days rest in between making it impossible to get into any kind of routine with my body clock. To me it would make more sense to have a system whereby you do say 3 monthly stints of a set shift. For example 04.00 - 13.00hrs and then change to say 13.00 - 21.00hrs for the next 3 months and then switch to say 20.00 - 03.00 for the next 3. At least this way you can get into a sleeping routine which enables getting enough sleep.

 

[cazlas10]

I have no idea how they operate down south. But up here they’re basically the same. Drivers tend to get the mega early turns as some trains need to be driven to the start points from the depot which can be over an hour away. There’s also the fact the trains are prepared from depot so the driver normally starts earlier.

They tend to finish at the same time here too. However, the drivers have 2 turns that last all night where as the guards don’t. I would say the guards could be working any hour between 0330-0230. Don’t think there’s any requirement for a guard between 0230-0330. So 23 hours of possible work time. (Just to be clear, these are not the length of the shift, just when it’s possible to work)

Short answer to your question would be yes. But you’ll get used to them. It really is an important part of the application process to recognise how the shifts work and be prepared for them.

If there are 23 hours of possible work time then surely the hours should simply be days (08.00 - 16.00), lates (15.00 - 23.00) and nights (23.00 - 08.00) with each set of guards just taking over from the previous ones?

 

[theironroad]

The start and finish times, the rest time in between and the actual shift pattern. Unfortunately I don't have a body clock that can quickly adapt. A start time of 04.00 would mean having to get up at 03.00 latest which quite frankly sounds dreadful as I know I wouldn't be able to get to sleep. I'm not the sort of person that can just sleep on demand and get to sleep as soon as my head hits the pillow regardless of how early it is. Now this wouldn't be so bad if I were on this shift for a long period of time because I could adapt to that and get my body clock into a routine so that I was able to get to sleep at 8-9PM and get sufficient hours sleep. However I have a feeling that this isn't how it will work and instead there will be constant weekly chopping and changing from early starts to late finishes into the early hours with only 1 or 2 days rest in between making it impossible to get into any kind of routine with my body clock. To me it would make more sense to have a system whereby you do say 3 monthly stints of a set shift. For example 04.00 - 13.00hrs and then change to say 13.00 - 21.00hrs for the next 3 months and then switch to say 20.00 - 03.00 for the next 3. At least this way you can get into a sleeping routine which enables getting enough sleep.

Yeah, that's pretty much how it works. The roster will have earlies, latest and middles. You're right about trying to one set of shifts so the body can adapt, but generally that's not how it works. People do do mutual swaps, but generally more people want earlies. I maybe possible to find another guard who wants latest and of you are on opposite shifts with the same free day pattern it may be able to do it on a more permanent basis.

I believe many years ago shifts were fixed but it didn't suit BR and in 1982 drivers went through a bitter dispute to oppose the introduction of 'flexible rosteeing' which was lost which is why the start of shift is based on the train time.

There are a myriad of rules regarding rostering and fatigue but the minimum time off between shifts from safety critical duties is 12 hours.

 

[theironroad]

I don't have access to the 'base roster' for Farnham guards, but next Tuesday shows that the earliest Farnham guard starts at 0447 and the latest finish is 0147 on lates. There's a whole range of start times and length of duty between those hours. These can be varied sometimes, normally due to engineering work .

 

[Dieseldriver]

I don’t know if you did the latter in your life, but personally I didn’t found anything nice in signing in before sunrise at the local supermarket. It sure was warm but cleaning the whole market floor as first thing in the morning wasn’t exactly like preparing a train at dawn, even when freezing (not to mention the amount of time spent in the cold-store ).

I’d say that I find railway shift work surely harder than many other jobs, but the driver’s daily work surely can’t be seen as harder as these jobs. And that’s what drives mad envious some, probably

Depends what you define as 'hard'. I have done jobs which are hard in terms of physical

If there are 23 hours of possible work time then surely the hours should simply be days (08.00 - 16.00), lates (15.00 - 23.00) and nights (23.00 - 08.00) with each set of guards just taking over from the previous ones?

It's called maximum efficiency. We book on at the precise time for our first working. We book off on the dot from our last working. Basically, our working lives (and a big part of our personal lives) are dictated by the train service.

 

[Gorlash1886]

Not just trains I'm currently a bus driver and our shifts are all over the place as well. If you want to work in public transport get used to it fast

 

[theironroad]

Not just trains I'm currently a bus driver and our shifts are all over the place as well. If you want to work in public transport get used to it fast

Is your shift start time related to the first bus you're going to drive? E.g. if the bus is due off the depot at 0615, you start at 0600 or something?

 

[Gorlash1886]

Yes exactly the same we have 8 minutes to check the bus for the safety critical things then it has to roll if fit. So we sign on sometimes at 4.07 and due to leave the lard at 4.15

 

[Gorlash1886]

Yard*

 

[theironroad]

Yes exactly the same we have 8 minutes to check the bus for the safety critical things then it has to roll if fit. So we sign on sometimes at 4.07 and due to leave the lard at 4.15

Interesting, it really only seems to be transport , though not too sure about pilots and flight attendants that have this flexible sign rostering.

Do you get time to read notices about maybe diversions, roadworks, modifications, fares etc?

 

[Gorlash1886]

No we don't if we need to know we have to ask or find out after.

 

[sw1ller]

If there are 23 hours of possible work time then surely the hours should simply be days (08.00 - 16.00), lates (15.00 - 23.00) and nights (23.00 - 08.00) with each set of guards just taking over from the previous ones?

DieselDriver has answered and is spot on. I can see why you think a set rosta would make sense but I’m reality it would never work. The railway is a complex place with many, MANY rules and instructions at a National and local level. It’s the local instructions that will have this whole forum contradicting each other. There could be two depots, 22 miles apart from each other, same company, but they will have different agreements regards working times, how and when they can be rostered, who should get overtime first and what job they go on. It goes way deeper than this and quite frankly, I’m almost getting myself confused about it as I don’t know or even fully understand the tiny details. That’s why you have union reps making sure no rules regarding rostering are being ignored or abused in anyway. Then there’s fatigue, holiday, sickness, train start and end times, spare turns, disruption..... and god knows what else. Honestly, I couldn’t work in the booking on point, the guys there are genius’ if you ask me! But short answer is, it’s too complicated to have the fixed booking on times. Hope some of that made sense.

 

[whoosh]

Worst thing is definitely the shifts. In at 04:00 means no evening watching telly with your partner, and if on lates, that means no nice evening watching telly with your partner either. Working weekends means reduced time with your partner or children. Finishing at 01:00 means risking waking them all up on your arrival home, and they are probably guaranteed to wake you up at 07:00 when they get up for work and school.

Having to go to bed at 20:00 on your day off because of your start time the next day.

Having to take two days leave for something when you're on nights, because otherwise you risk being to tired to do whatever it is after a nightshift, or too tired to concentrate at work during the night after a busy day.


Sometimes it does work nicely though!

 

[Bellbell]

The start and finish times, the rest time in between and the actual shift pattern. Unfortunately I don't have a body clock that can quickly adapt. A start time of 04.00 would mean having to get up at 03.00 latest which quite frankly sounds dreadful as I know I wouldn't be able to get to sleep. I'm not the sort of person that can just sleep on demand and get to sleep as soon as my head hits the pillow regardless of how early it is. Now this wouldn't be so bad if I were on this shift for a long period of time because I could adapt to that and get my body clock into a routine so that I was able to get to sleep at 8-9PM and get sufficient hours sleep. However I have a feeling that this isn't how it will work and instead there will be constant weekly chopping and changing from early starts to late finishes into the early hours with only 1 or 2 days rest in between making it impossible to get into any kind of routine with my body clock. To me it would make more sense to have a system whereby you do say 3 monthly stints of a set shift. For example 04.00 - 13.00hrs and then change to say 13.00 - 21.00hrs for the next 3 months and then switch to say 20.00 - 03.00 for the next 3. At least this way you can get into a sleeping routine which enables getting enough sleep.

It's probably not for you then. It is hard, it does get exhausting and it would be much easier (for us) if the start and finish times didn't change every day but that's not going to happen. You might be able to find a permanent swap, but as others have said it's often the case that there's an uneven split between preferences for earlies vs lates. Even if you can find one you can still get a huge variance in start times, particularly once you take into account spare movement.

 

[cazlas10]

Worst thing is definitely the shifts. In at 04:00 means no evening watching telly with your partner, and if on lates, that means no nice evening watching telly with your partner either. Working weekends means reduced time with your partner or children. Finishing at 01:00 means risking waking them all up on your arrival home, and they are probably guaranteed to wake you up at 07:00 when they get up for work and school.

Having to go to bed at 20:00 on your day off because of your start time the next day.

Having to take two days leave for something when you're on nights, because otherwise you risk being to tired to do whatever it is after a nightshift, or too tired to concentrate at work during the night after a busy day.


Sometimes it does work nicely though!

God I think this post alone has put the nail in the coffin for me. Seems like no life at all, not to mention the fact that I would permanently be in a state of fatigue. I'm failing to see the positives that you have indicated in your last sentence.

 

[bramling]

If there are 23 hours of possible work time then surely the hours should simply be days (08.00 - 16.00), lates (15.00 - 23.00) and nights (23.00 - 08.00) with each set of guards just taking over from the previous ones?

It could be done like that, but there would then be a lot of time spent sitting around.

In reality it’s normally quite simple - turn up, X minutes to book on and read notices, X minutes time to walk to train, and then the driver takes charge of a train. The time between start time and actual driving can be as little as 7 minutes (any less than that anywhere?).

Any down time tends to be in the middle of a duty or on the end, but the driver can be called in that time even if it’s submitting a report or whatever.

To be fair, if you did have people coming in at clockface times it wouldn’t be long before the phone rang with “can I come in for my pick-up time?”

At the end of the day this is why train staff are well paid - whilst the job in itself is fairly easy, it isn’t all sweetness and light by any means.

 

[cazlas10]

I'm pretty devestated by the posts in this thread to be honest. I'm not going to say what I currently do but I detest my current job and feel like after 16 years I've reached the end of the rope with it. Trouble is there are not many jobs out there that pay even close to what I'm on now and I can't afford to take too much of a pay cut. This is one of very few jobs that could have been options. I've still got to get through the interview anyway which I may not but it really looks like the shift/roster situation with this job will not be good for my health at all given that I already suffer from sleep related issues.

 

[bramling]

God I think this post alone has put the nail in the coffin for me. Seems like no life at all, not to mention the fact that I would permanently be in a state of fatigue. I'm failing to see the positives that you have indicated in your last sentence.

The positives are having days off in the week, and not having to work and travel during the 9-5 brigade rush hour. If that appeals to you then the shift work may well be a price worth paying. Likewise if you don’t mind working late turns of varying extremes then it could work well as these tend to be easier to get. Depending on location it is quite feasible with changeovers to regularly work, for example, something like 1700-0100 Tuesday to Saturdays. Earlies are generally much harder to get.

 

[cazlas10]

The positives are having days off in the week, and not having to work and travel during the 9-5 brigade rush hour. If that appeals to you then the shift work may well be a price worth paying. Likewise if you don’t mind working late turns of varying extremes then it could work well as these tend to be easier to get. Depending on location it is quite feasible with changeovers to regularly work, for example, something like 1700-0100 Tuesday to Saturdays. Earlies are generally much harder to get.

Sorry I know I have hijacked the thread somewhat as this is supposed to be about train driving but are you a driver or a guard? I did create a thread a few weeks ago with a number of questions around the commercial guard role but it got no replies.

 

[Bellbell]

God I think this post alone has put the nail in the coffin for me. Seems like no life at all, not to mention the fact that I would permanently be in a state of fatigue. I'm failing to see the positives that you have indicated in your last sentence.

There are plenty of positives, there really are. But there are undeniably negatives, and the railway isn't for everyone. Once you have your feet under the table a bit and get to know people you can often swing things so they suit you better than the base roster - so you might be able to get rid of the really early starts for example, as some people prefer them. Or you could swap a later finish for an earlier finish but a longer turn perhaps.

I'm not the best sleeper but overall the railway works for me. If it isn't going to work for you then I'd walk away now, but I would weigh things up carefully.

 

[387star]

You might think five day weekends every three weeks sign me up

However following on from early starts the first day is often a wipe out as you are knackered

This can make one grouchy and irritiable for the day and that's no fun

 

[cazlas10]

There are plenty of positives, there really are. But there are undeniably negatives, and the railway isn't for everyone. Once you have your feet under the table a bit and get to know people you can often swing things so they suit you better than the base roster - so you might be able to get rid of the really early starts for example, as some people prefer them. Or you could swap a later finish for an earlier finish but a longer turn perhaps.

I'm not the best sleeper but overall the railway works for me. If it isn't going to work for you then I'd walk away now, but I would weigh things up carefully.

Difficult though isn't it. I'm not truly going to know whether or not it's gonna work until I try it but of course by then it's too late to get my old job back if it's aweful.

 

[ComUtoR]

Sometimes it does work nicely though!

For all the days I've missed with the kids, all the BBQs and Birthdays I've missed, all the family events etc etc there truly is the flip side.

I do the school run and not many Dads get to do that because of their 9-5 schedules. I do get to go to various school events; including a school trip. Long weekends can fall perfectly and there are plenty of people who can swap. The 4 Day week (Driver side) can really make a week more productive. Good or Bad I know all my days off till December so I can plan accordingly.

God I think this post alone has put the nail in the coffin for me. Seems like no life at all, not to mention the fact that I would permanently be in a state of fatigue. I'm failing to see the positives that you have indicated in your last sentence.

It's not the best of lives and shift work has some very serious negatives but a decent salary and guaranteed time off can be a benefit. Yep I'm almost permanently fatigued but I just spent the day conquering 'The Beast' with the kids. Mentally this job can destroy you but most of us have the strength to carry it through and taking the rough with the smooth is the mantra many of us live by.

I've done 9-5, Zero hours, 0630-0630, long hours, short days etc etc and whilst the railway shifts seem to hurt more. I wouldn't change jobs for anything.

It's probably not for you then.

I would agree. Its hard to not state the cons and you need to be a realist about how any job can affect you personally. Going in with many fears will not help as you will dwell on the negatives. If you decide to take the job then go in with an open mind and see how others deal with everything.

 

[Bellbell]

I would agree. Its hard to not state the cons and you need to be a realist about how any job can affect you personally. Going in with many fears will not help as you will dwell on the negatives. If you decide to take the job then go in with an open mind and see how others deal with everything.

I think not dwelling on the negatives is absolutely correct. It's easy to get hung up on how tired you must be because you've been up since X, or were up until Y, and I know that personally I sometimes do feel absolutely awful. But sometimes I feel pretty OK, and I have to catch myself before I get stuck in a mindset that I'm knackered. I don't know if I've explained that well.

The industry has a massive fatigue problem and I do think at some point things will have to change. How, I don't know, and I still stand by the fact that if someone hates the sound of the shifts they shouldn't join the railway.

 

[beavercreek]

One of the biggest cons was yesterday a typical May bank holiday Sunday and my wife and friends are heading the pub and because I’m up at 3am this morning i was left behind trying to get to sleep on a hot evening at 7pm.Then when I go to work everyone is still out.
But when I’m off in the week then it’s my turn to watch the world go by with a pint in my hand.
Another one is on Lates, I choose to sleep in a separate bedroom so I’m not disturbed and this can mean a good five day stretch not seeing the family.

 

[Interlude]

For me, the shift work is mostly a positive thing. I avoid peak time commuting for the vast majority of shifts, the midweek days off are great for getting things done (shops are empty, gym is empty, pub is open...), and I enjoy the variation as opposed to the 9-5 grind. Even the 4am starts become less painful when you realise you'll be finished by around midday, and the rest of the day is yours. If that shift happens to fall on a Friday and you have Sat, Sun and Mon off, then all the better!

That's my point of view, but obviously it won't be the same for everyone. I see other drivers who'll do anything to get out of earlies, others who love nights, others who struggle with the whole lot - it really is an individual thing. What I will advise is don't build up shift work into this big, horrible thing until you've actually tried it.

 

[whoosh]

God I think this post alone has put the nail in the coffin for me

Well I'm sorry my post put you off!

It isn't for everyone.
However, I will say, I've been driving trains quite a long while now, and there's only been a handful of times in that whole period where I've thought, "Ugh, I don't want to go to work."
And every time I've been fine once I got there.
Those times have been the first day back following annual leave, or on nights. And like I said, once there I've been fine, and I could count those times on one hand.

As well as the positives mentioned by others, some of which I have personally enjoyed too, there's been some awesome sunrises and sunsets that I've seen too.

The working day goes quite quickly as well mostly. Nine hours can whizz by.

There's good comradery with colleagues.

There's not having your boss breathing down your neck.

Commercial Guard is what you're looking at, eh? Are you a 'people person'? A lot of people who do that job enjoy the sociable aspect of helping people and getting to know regular passengers etc. - that's a positive thing.

I suppose most people who work on the railway would say it's a way of life rather than just a job, as it is bigger than that, in that intrudes a bit in your social life more than other jobs. It can be a pain sometimes, yeah, but you learn to live with it.

Why don't you speak to a South West guard and talk through what their working life is like?
If you are unhappy in your current job then perhaps it's time for a change?

 

[lammergeier]

I'm pretty devestated by the posts in this thread to be honest. I'm not going to say what I currently do but I detest my current job and feel like after 16 years I've reached the end of the rope with it. Trouble is there are not many jobs out there that pay even close to what I'm on now and I can't afford to take too much of a pay cut. This is one of very few jobs that could have been options. I've still got to get through the interview anyway which I may not but it really looks like the shift/roster situation with this job will not be good for my health at all given that I already suffer from sleep related issues.

You'll probably be fine, most people balk at the the thought of getting up at 03.00 or thereabouts - I've been doing it for years now and the thought of it still fills me with horror - but you quickly get used to it and your body soon adapts to the new normal. It seems very rare for someone to start a driving or guarding job and then realise that due to the shift work it isn't for them.

Also there's nothing quite like getting up at some god awful hour in Summer and going to work when the roads are empty, the birds are cheeping, owls are still hunting and the sky is just starting to get light. It's not all doom and gloom on earlies you know, there's something quite magical about the early dawn and I actually look forward to it.

Incedentally if you end up working somewhere which has a fixed rest day pattern it's possible to get a swap to work permanent earlies or lates. In my experience those wishing to work permanent lates as you presumably would want to are popular as earlies tend to suit those with young families. I'm not saying this is a dead cert but it is a possibility. A couple of new starters at my depot already had swaps lined up before they even qualified.

I'm not saying the shifts aren't a struggle sometimes but you'd be amazed how quickly people adapt.

 

[GNDriver]

I’ll be honest, I find it’s easier to moan about the all the cons of the job, particularly in shift work and then just as easy to take for granted and forget about all the pros in the very same parts of the job.

For example, I have 4 late shifts coming up, then one day off on a Sunday then 4 days of earlies a day off then a bank off 2 nights a day off but I’ll be asleep then another 2 nights after that. Very easy to sit t and moan about.

However, after all that, I get 5 days off in a row... and it just so happens that I have a wedding to go to that falls on the second of the 5 days off! So I’m staying away for 3 days and nights for it. Making a bit of a holiday of it.... without taking any holiday days!!! Doesn’t always work out that way but I think it’s easy to just take it for granted when it does!

 

[Mintona]

At my place I get a week off every fifth week, which is ideal for short breaks, ‘DIY’ projects etc. I am currently writing to you from the Netherlands, and it’s not cost me any annual leave.

I do smile when friends have to get up at ‘5am!!’ to go on holiday or something, when I’m regularly up between 1 and 2am, and on one shift around midnight. That’s a killer.