Prosecution under Byelaw 17(1)

[najaB]

If your case goes to court, the best thing that can happen is a conditional discharge as this is the only instance you can answer no to any question asking about a criminal conviction. Which means you can work and travel freely!

Well, the best that can happen is that you're found not guilty, but barring that an unconditional discharge is spent immediately - a conditional discharge is only spent at the end of the conditional period.

Whether conditional or unconditional, it is still a conviction.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hi everyone, thank you so much for your response I actually feel a lot better about all of this! Paranoia about this will mean that I will pay for subject access requests to check after my court date.

I’ve also discussed further with my solicitor and for anyone that stumbles across this thread my understanding is as follows:

1. If your case goes to court, the best thing that can happen is a conditional discharge as this is the only instance you can answer no to any question asking about a criminal conviction. Which means you can work and travel freely!

2. As members have pointed out this is a non-recordable offence and should not turn up on any DBS checks (although not sure if this is true if you are convicted), but may show up on deeper checks associated with security clearances.

If useful I will post an update after my date with fate.

Thank you all for allaying my fears by providing clear information and secondly for all your considered and kind responses.

Quick one, but you shouldn't be needing to pay for any Subject Access Requests anymore, thanks to GDPR.

 

[Skywalker]

Whether conditional or unconditional, it is still a conviction.

Just to clarify are you suggesting that if a question is asked along the lines of “Have you ever been convicted of a crime? (spent or otherwise)” the correct answer is Yes?

Want to make sure as I was under the impression that you can answer No?

Thanks!

 

[najaB]

Just to clarify are you suggesting that if a question is asked along the lines of “Have you ever been convicted of a crime? (spent or otherwise)” the correct answer is Yes?

Want to make sure as I was under the impression that you can answer No?

Thanks!

It depends on what you mean by "Is it a conviction?" From the Unlock website (my bold):

Conditional discharge

Who is it issued by and how can I contact them?
Issued by the court – contact the relevant court.

Does it involve guilt?
Yes – it is passed when the court finds you guilty but does not pass a sentence, on the condition that you don’t reoffend within a specified time period. If a crime is committed within that period, you can be re-sentenced for the original offence. You may still have to pay compensation, prosecution costs or be disqualified from driving.

Is it recorded on the Police National Computer (PNC)?
Yes.

Is it classed as a conviction?
No, unless the conditional discharge is breached and you are re-sentenced for the original offence. However for the purposes of filtering, it would be dealt with as a conviction.

So a conditional discharge does mean that you have been found guilty, and it may or may not appear on a DBS check (in the case of a recordable offence) depending on other factors. So it is probably best to answer "Yes" and explain than say "No" and then be found out.

 

[Mathew S]

Just to clarify are you suggesting that if a question is asked along the lines of “Have you ever been convicted of a crime? (spent or otherwise)” the correct answer is Yes?

Want to make sure as I was under the impression that you can answer No?

Thanks!

If the question is asking about ALL convictions, spent or unspent, then the answer is always going to be yes unless you plead, and are found, not-guilty. But check who is asking the question, and that they're entitled to know about spent convictions, before you answer. Insurance companies, for example, would be breaking the law if they asked that question.

 

[najaB]

But check who is asking the question, and that they're entitled to know about spent convictions, before you answer.

That's an important point.

 

[Skywalker]

If the question is asking about ALL convictions, spent or unspent, then the answer is always going to be yes unless you plead, and are found, not-guilty. But check who is asking the question, and that they're entitled to know about spent convictions, before you answer. Insurance companies, for example, would be breaking the law if they asked that question.

Is this also the case for discharges? Sorry if I’ve already asked this question, just a bit confused.

My solicitor is suggesting that if I receive a conditional discharge I can answer no to any question regarding convictions and my own research has not been conclusive.

 

[najaB]

Is this also the case for discharges? Sorry if I’ve already asked this question, just a bit confused.

My solicitor is suggesting that if I receive a conditional discharge I can answer no to any question regarding convictions and my own research has not been conclusive.

As @Mathew S said - it depends very much on who is asking. If it's for purposes of insurance, etc. then you can answer "No". However, if it's for purposes for which an enhanced DBS check would be permitted, then the answer has to be "Yes".

 

[Mathew S]

As @Mathew S said - it depends very much on who is asking. If it's for purposes of insurance, etc. then you can answer "No". However, if it's for purposes for which an enhanced DBS check would be permitted, then the answer has to be "Yes".

Absolutely correct.

 

[Bensonby]

Thank you all for your reassurances.

I am a Doctor which is why I’ve been so worried about the consequences of my actions.

When disclosing a conviction how much info. Would your employer be able to see? Will they just see the title or will they have all the details?

I know a doctor who had a fraud conviction: even that wasn’t career ending. They got a short suspension by the GMC (3 months I think), and that was it as far as professional sanctions were concerned. The GMC are mainly concerned with patient safety.

This is a far less serious offence than fraud, and it has no bearing on patient safety.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Is this also the case for discharges? Sorry if I’ve already asked this question, just a bit confused.

My solicitor is suggesting that if I receive a conditional discharge I can answer no to any question regarding convictions and my own research has not been conclusive.

If your solicitor is telling you this, can you get them to put it in writing? It seems to me that if you are following unambiguous advice from a professional and can evidence the advice, then that will go a long way to protecting you if someone argues that when you said 'no' you should have said 'yes'.

Also (and apologies if this has already been said) see if your professional body can offer confidential advice on what might happen if you were found guilty. On the one hand, I would expect the BMA to offer that as a service to their members: on the other hand, I can imagine that the BMA may also be required to report anything discreditable about a doctor that comes to their attention.

 

[Fare-Cop]

It's a couple of weeks since anyone posted on this thread and I'm intrigued as to the outcome, if any.

Is there an update from the OP please?

 

[Skywalker]

Hi Fare-Cop,

None yet. I will definitely post an update of the impact this has if any on my career etc.

 

[RubyR]

Hi, I have just stumbled upon this thread and it has been a couple of months since anyone last posted.

I was wondering if there has been any update and whether you were found guilty at court?

 

[Haywain]

Hi, I have just stumbled upon this thread and it has been a couple of months since anyone last posted.

I was wondering if there has been any update and whether you were found guilty at court?

If you have a similar problem you would be better starting a new thread with details of your situation so that you can be offered appropriate assistance.

 

[Mathew S]

Hi, I have just stumbled upon this thread and it has been a couple of months since anyone last posted.

I was wondering if there has been any update and whether you were found guilty at court?

The original poster may well not feel able to share details of the outcome of their case. But, as Haywain has said, if you have an issue of your own, do post a new thread and people will be glad to help you.
(And welcome to the forum!)

 

[RubyR]

I was actually in a similar situation a couple of months ago and was found guilty. It has taken me awhile to find this information out but if anyone else is charged with the same offence it is good to know that it is classed as a non-recordable offence and that it does not appear on DBS checks but it is still classed as 'unspent' conviction as you are given a fine. I believe you can find more information on Nacro, a social justice charity.