PTAC Oyster and National Rail

[hedpe]

Hello there,

Since 2011 i have a PTAC discount applied to my oyster. From my understanding, this discount is applied on (most?) national rail services where you can use an oyster card. When i used it on SouthEastern years ago whilst working under a different franchise, i recall the discount being applied.

Recently i made a mistake of forgetting to tap out my oyster card on the reader (no barriers) whilst changing between underground and national rail (operated by TOC i work for). Thought to myself that where im heading is in the same zone as where i started (tapped in originally) so thought that at least i wouldnt pay much with my PTAC and wouldnt lose any sleep. However when i tapped out, i think i was charged full price. Now im wondering if i dont have all eligible discounts applied to my oyster card. I hold a PTAC and PRIV cards, and when i last renewed my oyster, i recall some confusion as to which discount should be applied. Im fairly certain i have "TFL Rail All" or something similar. I am also wondering whether the PRIV tickets needs to be applied separately.

Thanks

 

[Haywain]

While I was working for a TOC the only option for having Priv discount applied to an Oyster card was for use on London Overground services. It was made clear that no discount would be available on other National Rail journeys. I didn't, as a 'New entrant', get any Priv discount on underground services.

 

[tsr]

My advice to hedpe would be to go to a quiet-ish Tube Station and ask the staff to log into a ticket machine to check both that you have discounts applied for NR and TfL services, and that they haven’t expired. Staff have unfortunately been known to enter random expiry dates for the discounts, which may or may not tally with your PRIV/PTAC.

While I was working for a TOC the only option for having Priv discount applied to an Oyster card was for use on London Overground services. It was made clear that no discount would be available on other National Rail journeys. I didn't, as a 'New entrant', get any Priv discount on underground services.

Some “New Entrant” employees get a Priv discount on Tube/DLR. It’s been covered on these forums before. Mainly applies to GTR staff, several thousand of whom can get the discount.

 

[Haywain]

My advice to hedpe would be to go to a quiet-ish Tube Station and ask the staff to log into a ticket machine to check both that you have discounts applied for NR and TfL services, and that they haven’t expired. Staff have unfortunately been known to enter random expiry dates for the discounts, which may or may not tally with your PRIV/PTAC.

As previously stated, I do not believe that priv for National Rail services other than London Overground can be applied to an Oyster Card.

Some “New Entrant” employees get a Priv discount on Tube/DLR. It’s been covered on these forums before. Mainly applies to GTR staff, several thousand of whom can get the discount.

I'm aware of this, but it doesn't alter the situation for National Rail services.

 

[plcd1]

As previously stated, I do not believe that priv for National Rail services other than London Overground can be applied to an Oyster Card.

As a former TfL employee I retained Priv facilities. I can say that the Oyster card priv discount most certainly can be applied to NR services within the Oyster area and where Oyster is accepted. I made two such discounted journeys yesterday. I recognise there are different categories of entitlement for TOC employees depending on their date of first employment in the rail industry so I'm not challenging that just saying that technically the discount most certainly can be applied.

 

[hedpe]

Is the Priv card applied seperately to the PTAC? I had a new oyster recently and it took a couple of attempts to get someone to apply the PTAC discount and i assumed it would cover both. I dont know if they have to go into another screen on the ticket machine or whether its a combined option with Priv.

 

[LA50041]

Is the Priv card applied seperately to the PTAC? I had a new oyster recently and it took a couple of attempts to get someone to apply the PTAC discount and i assumed it would cover both. I dont know if they have to go into another screen on the ticket machine or whether its a combined option with Priv.

When I got mine added to oyster I had to visit an underground station to have the PTAC added then a NR station to add the priv as underground couldn't do this

 

[tsr]

As previously stated, I do not believe that priv for National Rail services other than London Overground can be applied to an Oyster Card.

I'm aware of this, but it doesn't alter the situation for National Rail services.

As already posted above, Priv can be added to normal Oyster PAYG cards as a discount rate, somewhat similar in process to adding a Railcard discount.

Is the Priv card applied seperately to the PTAC? I had a new oyster recently and it took a couple of attempts to get someone to apply the PTAC discount and i assumed it would cover both. I dont know if they have to go into another screen on the ticket machine or whether its a combined option with Priv.

I have seen it applied separately or as a combined option. The methods taught to staff seem to vary. If I remember correctly, you can add different types of discount or use an “All Rail” option which covers any trains on TfL or NR systems.

 

[LA50041]

As previously stated, I do not believe that priv for National Rail services other than London Overground can be applied to an Oyster Card.

I'm aware of this, but it doesn't alter the situation for National Rail services.

All employees with a Private can get the discount added to an oyster by visiting a national Rail station with oyster facilities. This has been the case for around 18 months now

 

[Mojo]

As previously stated, I do not believe that priv for National Rail services other than London Overground can be applied to an Oyster Card.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the OP stated whether they were Safeguarded or not. Safeguarded staff, child dependents of non-Safeguarded TfL/LU employees, as well as those working for Eurostar, certain East Coast and GTR employees are all entitled to Priv discounts on Oyster Pay As You Go on TfL Rail, Overground, LU and DLR services.

For the OP; if they have the discount "Priv TfL Rail" discount then this is not the correct discount to have, as this is for child dependents of non-Safeguarded TfL staff, and as the name suggests, only affords a discount on services operated by, or on behalf of, TfL. If they are Safeguarded, or are an eligible employee of Eurostar/GTR/EC with yellow PTAC, then they should have "Priv All Rail." If they are not Safeguarded then they should have Priv NR only, which can only be added at certain NR stations (not LU).

 

[CyrusWuff]

To clarify, there are four different "PRIV" discounts that can be applied to a Standard Oyster card (names are from memory, so may not be 100% correct):

• Priv All - As the name suggests, this will apply a discount to both TfL and NR services (though not Buses and Trams) and is generally only available to Safeguarded Staff. If buying a new Oyster from an NR Ticket Office, you need to present an application form authorised by the relevant Staff Travel Office.
• Priv NR Only - Does what it says on the tin. Applies a discount on services where NR fares apply. For the avoidance of doubt, this includes London Overground and TfL Rail. This is available to Non-Safeguarded Staff and doesn't require an application form.
• Priv TfL - Only applies the discount for TfL services (again, this includes London Overground and TfL Rail). This is the discount that would be set for someone with a PTAC that doesn't have the NR logo on it.
• Priv TfL N - I'm not entirely sure of the difference between this and the "normal" TfL Priv, but I believe it means the discount is only applied for journeys using Pay As You Go, and you can't load a discounted Travelcard Season onto a card with it set.

For TOC staff, the expiry date for the discount should be set to 30th June xxxx, as that's when the associated Staff Travel Card/TOC Privilege Card expires, but it may be later if they've got an Annual Travelcard loaded onto the card, as otherwise the Travelcard would have been issued on a paper ticket.

 

[hedpe]

I went to a ticket machine this morning and checked the discount applied. I noticed it said Priv TFL . My PTAC does not have a national rail logo, and in fact it says "Not valid on National Rail Services". But im wondering since i have a 75% Priv discount card for National Rail, would that mean i am still legible for PAYG discount on National Rail using my oyster?

 

[Mojo]

I went to a ticket machine this morning and checked the discount applied. I noticed it said Priv TFL . My PTAC does not have a national rail logo, and in fact it says "Not valid on National Rail Services". But im wondering since i have a 75% Priv discount card for National Rail, would that mean i am still legible for PAYG discount on National Rail using my oyster?

So then it's a yellow PTAC because you are an employee of Eurostar, East Coast or GTR?

If so, then it's debatable. Official guidance on the matter says that you should not have the "All Rail" option because that is only for Safeguarded staff (so presumably you would be expected to use two different Oyster cards), although the writing of that predates the existence of non-Safeguarded staff being able to use PAYG on NR services.

 

[Haywain]

Priv NR Only - Does what it says on the tin. Applies a discount on services where NR fares apply. For the avoidance of doubt, this includes London Overground and TfL Rail. This is available to Non-Safeguarded Staff and doesn't require an application form.

This option certainly hasn't been well publicised to railway staff. I left less than 2 months ago and had never heard about this and I have spoken to a couple of former colleagues who are still working for the TOC (and London based) and are (or were) completely unaware of this, other than the option of having it loaded for London Overground only (which obviously has rather limited use).

 

[Mojo]

This option certainly hasn't been well publicised to railway staff. I left less than 2 months ago and had never heard about this and I have spoken to a couple of former colleagues who are still working for the TOC and are (or were) completely unaware of this, other than the option of having it loaded for London Overground only (which obviously has rather limited use).

I know of quite a few people who have had this discount, and an information leaflet was published on the RSTL website (https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/files/Publications/services/rst/RST_NR_Only_Priv_Oyster.pdf). It's been around since Sept 2016.

I'm not aware of any discount code that could be applied that would only allow a London Overground-only discount; your post is the first I've heard of it.

 

[CyrusWuff]

If so, then it's debatable. Official guidance on the matter says that you should not have the "All Rail" option because that is only for Safeguarded staff

Given that Oyster cards have three slots for discounts, I'd suggest the safest option would be to get both "Priv NR Only" and one of the "Priv TfL" options (depending on whether VTEC/GTR/E* PTAC holders can use the PTAC to get discounted Travelcard Seasons or not) set.

The effect should be basically the same as having "Priv All" set, but it won't give an RPI cause for complaint.