'public' in back cab

[D2022]

I won't name any companies or lines, no names no law suits, but I recently boarded a train on which a friend of mine was guarding, he invited me into the back cab for the journey as he wasn't checking tickets and the train was packed thoroughly.

I was wondering what the ruling is regarding who can be in the back cab of a unit (or HST for that matter) or is it guards discretion about it? Bare in mind I am ex railway staff so he knows full well I'm not going to fiddle with controls or that sort of thing whereas a member of the public may be tempted.

 

[Pumbaa]

I'd have thought the majority of TOCs have a blanket no MOP in any cab rule.

In practice, many guards admit passengers through their cabs having locked up the train as it is ready to depart every day.

 

[broadgage]

There must be a rule against it !
Though for ex railway staff who are known personaly by the on train staff I cant see much harm resulting.

I have travelled with permission in the rear cab of an overcrowded train, and I am not current OR ex staff, though I was with an off duty train driver.

The train was grossly overcrowded, and the staff showed inititive by letting staff and friends travel in the rear cab, thereby giving room for a couple more standing passengers.

 

[Wolf_359]

I recently boarded a train on which a friend of mine was guarding, he invited me into the back cab for the journey as he wasn't checking tickets and the train was packed thoroughly.

I was wondering what the ruling is regarding who can be in the back cab of a unit (or HST for that matter) or is it guards discretion about it? Bare in mind I am ex railway staff so he knows full well I'm not going to fiddle with controls or that sort of thing whereas a member of the public may be tempted.

The fact that you are Ex-railway makes it a little different. However it is not normally allowed.

Having said that whilst working a 321 out of london, I did once allow a Heavly Pregant lady into my air conditioned cab once on a very hot day.

The train was packed & nobody was letting her sit down, so I contacted the control room and advised them what I was doing & why. So it was all above board.

The way things stand at the moment I would not allow anybody into my cab without getting permission 1st, as I don't want to risk losing my job.

 

[KiddyKid]

It was always a cardinal sin to ride in the back cab of a HST due to the remote fire system, ie the rear power car extinguisher could go off automatically at any time. Dont know if this is still the same since they were re engined.

 

[Flamingo]

It was always a cardinal sin to ride in the back cab of a HST due to the remote fire system, ie the rear power car extinguisher could go off automatically at any time. Dont know if this is still the same since they were re engined.

Still the case. Travelling fitters sometimes do, as they can immobilise the automatic system, but otherwise a no-no.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I have known of a case where a female passenger allegedly was ill, and the guard took them into the rear cab of a 158 so they could sit beside the open window. Said passenger then claims she was sexually assaulted by guard whilst in the rear cab (no witnesses or CCTV obviously in the rear cab). Just remembered, it turned out there was a history of similar accusations by the same lady...

I have been told nobody should be in a cab unless in possession of a cab pass or in relation to their duties. So that rules out the general public.

 

[Monty]

The fact that you are Ex-railway makes it a little different. However it is not normally allowed.

Having said that whilst working a 321 out of london, I did once allow a Heavly Pregant lady into my air conditioned cab once on a very hot day.

The train was packed & nobody was letting her sit down, so I contacted the control room and advised them what I was doing & why. So it was all above board.

The way things stand at the moment I would not allow anybody into my cab without getting permission 1st, as I don't want to risk losing my job.

A guard on a train I had been passing on back to depot had let an equally heavily pregant woman sit in one of the middle cabs on an 8-Car 458. He had contacted control and they seemed to have no problem with it. When I boarded he asked me to sit with her and keep her company. So it does happen, though I would think there would have to be a -very- good reason.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Discretion of the staff , but technically illegal - as an operator , I have seen it done with a suitable minder when things were "difficult" - no other comment.

 

[colchesterken]

small tear in the eye,when I used to commute into Liv st from the east on the beloved class 306 s which in the early 60 s used to get very full you had 4 cabs to use if they forgot to lock them it was great fun as the speedo worked in all cabs so you could see how fast they were going
That is why I loved the 309s if you stood by the drivers middle cab on an 8 or 12 car.you could look in and see how fast they were going regular on the 6.50 to Stowmarket..never saw one get right up to 100

 

[mallard]

That is why I loved the 309s if you stood by the drivers middle cab on an 8 or 12 car.you could look in and see how fast they were going regular on the 6.50 to Stowmarket..never saw one get right up to 100

Used to do that all the time as a kid down in the south east (standing by the cab, not in it) on the lovely old slamdoor units. It's still possible on some stock...

 

[notadriver]

On Southeastern only drivers and guards allowed the back cab but on other TOCs especially those that have DOO services any staff member is allowed in the back I think?

 

[es373]

Notadriver.

This is a bit of a grey area with TOCs as although the trailing cab is shut down, some controls are still live in pretty much every rolling stock out there. If you're an off duty employee you are considered unauthorised, being on duty is a different matter but I guess when you're railstaff it doesn't hurt to ask the driver, I'd rather travel up front with colleagues when going in to work anyway as most of them I don't see for weeks on end as we all have different rotas, so it's nice to have a chin wag.
Having said that there are a lot of old school drivers out there which still hold the 'this is my train, I'll have who I want in the cab' which is nice when you get the priviliage every so often but gets annoying when people start taking the mick and asking for rides every day.

 

[D2022]

There must be a rule against it !
Though for ex railway staff who are known personaly by the on train staff I cant see much harm resulting.

I have travelled with permission in the rear cab of an overcrowded train, and I am not current OR ex staff, though I was with an off duty train driver.

The train was grossly overcrowded, and the staff showed inititive by letting staff and friends travel in the rear cab, thereby giving room for a couple more standing passengers.

Exactly my thinking, seems illogical to make someone sit in the saloon and take up a seat on a heavily crowded train when there's a nice flip down seat in the back cab. The guard stayed in the rear drivers seat and seemed happy of the company for a change, a bit of conversation never hurts
I have seen people in the rear of HST sets before get hoofed out when the drivers noticed....oops

At the end of the day I was wearing a high vis from the company I used to work for (I wear it when I cycle as its nice and waterproof, better than any cycle brand coat anyways) so as far as the public were concerned I appeared just another member of railway staff along for the ride.

It is nice to see some guards using their noggin given the crowded situations these days.

 

[D365]

A similar discussion took place recently. If a woman was asking me to sit in an empty cab, I would feel a lot more comfortable knowing that she wouldn't accuse me of assualt; ie I would check with control if there had been any such cases in the past.

 

[BestWestern]

A definite no-no at my TOC, and I'd be surprised if many others would permit it nowadays. Numerous live controls in there, along with the emergency door release 'butterly' right were your feel rest on the secondman's side...

I'd also have to say that I wouldn't feel at all comfortable being alone in a cab with a member of the public, for the reasons already mentioned above. You never know who they are, how mentally stable they are, or what they might accuse you of. Sad reality, but there we are. I'm a strong believer that there are non-public parts of a train and the public shouldn't be in there!

 

[spurs4life]

I sit in the back cab when travelling to and from my depot to get away from the public wouldn't want to invite them in the cab there stupid enough on a platform with out sitting next to you.lol

 

[es373]

I sit in the back cab when travelling to and from my depot to get away from the public wouldn't want to invite them in the cab there stupid enough on a platform with out sitting next to you.lol

Can't say I blame you! It's worse when there's delays and you're the only one in uniform a packed train can see!