Punctuality Trains vs Coaches: is there a way to check coach punctuality?

[notadriver]

A friend of mine says scheduled coach services are more punctual than trains. It's easy to check on the punctuality of trains as they are published online. I can't find anything similar for coaches. Can anyone advise ?

 

[paul1609]

Coaches are the future, what we are seeing now is the last Golden Age of Railways, who wouldn't prefer a luxury seat in a coach over standing in a Voyager when commuting from Medway everyday?: http://www.thekingsferry.co.uk/commuter-services/rail-ticket-trade

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Coaches are the future, what we are seeing now is the last Golden Age of Railways, who wouldn't prefer a luxury seat in a coach over standing in a Voyager when commuting from Medway everyday?: http://www.thekingsferry.co.uk/commuter-services/rail-ticket-trade

Well, me for one. I get terribly travelsick on road vehicles, and it always seems worse on buses and coaches.

 

[pdq]

You can track National Express coaches at http://coachtracker.nationalexpress.com/

 

[tsr]

Coaches are the future, what we are seeing now is the last Golden Age of Railways, who wouldn't prefer a luxury seat in a coach over standing in a Voyager when commuting from Medway everyday?: http://www.thekingsferry.co.uk/commuter-services/rail-ticket-trade

Luckily nobody has to stand in a Voyager when commuting from Medway every day, as they don't run on that route...

In seriousness, coaches may provide some competition from Kent, but not all areas of London are as easily penetrated. Had motorways generally reached further into London from all areas as originally planned, I think perhaps competition would be stiffer. But try (especially) Surrey to London during the peak, and even if you have to stand, the train is a no-brainer in terms of usual timings. It is also worth pointing out that through travel can be a lot harder when changing coaches and that the door-to-door experience is not quite like a train - almost any railway station offers a better welcome than being dumped in the gutter of a road of a coach company's choosing, should you dare venture from a city centre coach station.

I'm sure we have previously had this debate several times and the matter of available timings did come up. I notice that nowhere on the quick "comparison" between coach and train on the King's Ferry website does it mention the speed or timetable, merely the frequency, which is not everything (especially given that you can't quite have as many stations as bus stops, or as many passengers on a coach as a train).

As for the statement that trains do not have a "tracking app" on the King's Ferry site... there are dozens of rail apps which can track trains, so I think their claims should sometimes be extended forth by means of bargepole just as much as any other transport operator.

 

[Vtdriver]

Try doing Preston to London in 2hours15 in a coach.

 

[Minilad]

I would rather gouge out my eyes with a rusty fork than travel by coach. Especially one of those Megabus things. Utter torture

 

[Bungle965]

Tell you what i did a overnight coach from Manchester to Edinburgh, NEVER again!!
train any day.
Sam

 

[notadriver]

Granted train travel is more desirable and quicker but how about the actual punctuality comparison ? Is a coach more likely to arrive at the time stated due to timetable allowances etc?

 

[paul1609]

Luckily nobody has to stand in a Voyager when commuting from Medway every day, as they don't run on that route...

In seriousness, coaches may provide some competition from Kent, but not all areas of London are as easily penetrated. Had motorways generally reached further into London from all areas as originally planned, I think perhaps competition would be stiffer. But try (especially) Surrey to London during the peak, and even if you have to stand, the train is a no-brainer in terms of usual timings. It is also worth pointing out that through travel can be a lot harder when changing coaches and that the door-to-door experience is not quite like a train - almost any railway station offers a better welcome than being dumped in the gutter of a road of a coach company's choosing, should you dare venture from a city centre coach station.

I'm sure we have previously had this debate several times and the matter of available timings did come up. I notice that nowhere on the quick "comparison" between coach and train on the King's Ferry website does it mention the speed or timetable, merely the frequency, which is not everything (especially given that you can't quite have as many stations as bus stops, or as many passengers on a coach as a train).

As for the statement that trains do not have a "tracking app" on the King's Ferry site... there are dozens of rail apps which can track trains, so I think their claims should sometimes be extended forth by means of bargepole just as much as any other transport operator.

Ive commuted in to central London for some years firstly from the Sussex Coast and now from Marshlink. I've recently used King's Ferry for a few days as a result of threatened Rail Industrial Disputes driving to Blue Hill car park on the M2. I have to say that if I was paying for the tickets they would be serious contenders. The whole operation seems much more professional than Southeastern with spare coaches on immediate standby for walk up passengers. The interchange with the jubilee line at Canary Wharf is probably better than any of the South London Rail Terminals. The Enviroment spacious leather type seat with quite passable wifi is much better than being crammed in the vestibule. Oh and their tracking app is actually much better than anything Ive seen on the rail industry.

 

[notadriver]

Just as an aside - the drivers of those commuter services do 15 hour days, 5 days a week and often do a 6th day to top up their wages. I question the safety of that 'professional' operation.

 

[Phil.]

Just as an aside - the drivers of those commuter services do 15 hour days, 5 days a week and often do a 6th day to top up their wages. I question the safety of that 'professional' operation.

The law - according to the Gov.UK website - limits them to 9 hours per day which may be extended to 10 hours providing that 2 X 45 minute breaks are taken. Coach drivers nowadays are every bit as professional as train drivers plus, they have to steer.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Train travel is way better then coach travel, especially around Birmingham!

 

[the101]

The law - according to the Gov.UK website - limits them to 9 hours per day which may be extended to 10 hours providing that 2 X 45 minute breaks are taken. Coach drivers nowadays are every bit as professional as train drivers plus, they have to steer.

Yes, indeed it does... for driving time. In terms of duty time, which is what he seemed to be referring to, they can do 15 hours three days per week and 13 hours on the other three - or 15 hours on the other three if a three(?)-hour minimum break is taken at some point. On commuter work there is likely to be a long-ish patch across the middle of the day doing little, although the likes of Redwing, Kings Ferry and so on are clever at filling this time with bits and pieces of other work.

Such hours are common in the haulage industry, something it pays to remember when an angry idiot in his artic is two feet off your parcel shelf in a set of motorway roadworks.

 

[paul1609]

In my limited experience of using kings ferry I have to say that the passenger doesn't get the impression of unhappy drivers working long hours. The impression is that the company is well organised and well equipped to deal with any unexpected occurrences, rail disputes are seen as an opportunity to attract new business.
On Southeastern the staff are likewise friendly and efficient in normal running however when things go wrong it all appears to have absolutely no contingency planning and quickly descend in to a complete farce with nobody in control.

 

[notadriver]

I think impressions are very important. I guess the railways don't try as hard as they could as they have a captive audience and no other competition from rival tocs (in this instance) whereas there are several coach companies vying for business in the area from a much smaller customer base.

 

[BestWestern]

Coaches are the future, what we are seeing now is the last Golden Age of Railways, who wouldn't prefer a luxury seat in a coach over standing in a Voyager when commuting from Medway everyday?: http://www.thekingsferry.co.uk/commuter-services/rail-ticket-trade

I really think not.

Road congestion is going to become progressively worse as the years roll on, which is a problem considering that coach commuter routes have to navigate their way into the heart of major cities. The journey time is invariably torturously slow, and for most journeys undertaken by rail the coach alternative is neither direct nor convenient. Commuting into London is something of a special case, as however you do it, road or rail, it's a crappy experience quite frankly. There are far more direct road commuter flows than will ever be the case anywhere else.

Elsewhere, the railways are lightyears ahead of anything by road. We have massive electrification projects planned and underway, the delivery of vast fleets of new rolling stock about to happen very shortly, and the usage figures just keep on rising. In our congested little corner of the world, rail is by far the most effective way of transporting large volumes of people. I see no sudden decline on the horizon, and I don't think anyone else does either.

 

[notadriver]

What concerns me is national express have lengthened journey times on many routes in my area to fill their coaches presumably. Ramagate to London takes a minimum 3 hours whereas it used to be 2.5.

 

[BestWestern]

Bristol to the south coast, even by direct service, takes around 50% longer than it does by train. It simply cannot compete, and that is one of relatively few NatEx journeys in the south which doesn't require a change at Victoria.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

I wonder if we should separate here long distance leisure coaches like National Express from (commuter?) services like Kings Ferry?

I had certainly never heard of the latter before, so my experience with coaches is limited to National Express. And let's put it this way: I would rather walk from Birmingham to London than take the National Express. I don't care how cheap it is. There are at least 3 or 4 options that would have to be out of action before I even considered it.

 

[IanD]

A friend of mine says scheduled coach services are more punctual than trains. It's easy to check on the punctuality of trains as they are published online. I can't find anything similar for coaches. Can anyone advise ?

Your friend is delusional.

Coach companies are not compelled to pay any compensation in the event of delays so punctuality is low on their priority. Take this weekend as an example. My friend was travelling on the 561 Nat Express from Milton Keynes to Leeds. Announcer says it's running 20 minutes late. A 561 to Leeds turns up 5 minutes later (ie ahead of time) with 10 empty seats. 10 people are allowed on but then are told that they will have to wait 20 mintes because this is the "relief" coach and it cannot leave until the "service" coach arrives to pick up the other 30+ passengers. Why delay the 70+ passengers on board for no reason at all?? Totally crazy.

 

[WestCoast]

I'm based in Birmingham which has many NX and Megabus services but I'll only use them on daytime journeys if the train fare is prohibitively expensive and I'm in no rush to be somewhere. I generally prefer NX because you can track your coach so you know when it'll turn up and the waiting facilities tend to be better (see NX's Birmingham Coach Station vs Hill Street for Megabus).

I do find NX extremely useful for getting to airports early in the morning, there's no way I could get to Heathrow or Stansted Airport for 6am from Birmingham on the train, without going the night before and paying for a hotel. Traveling overnight is probably the best time to travel on a coach

On another note, coach travel is actually booming in some continental European countries like France and Germany after markets were liberalised to allow scheduled intercity coach operators to compete against rail. On corridors like Berlin-Munich where the train takes 6-7 hours at the moment but traffic congestion tends not be too bad, luxury double deck coaches with journey times of 6.5-8 hours have taken a fair slice of the market.

 

[infobleep]

Try doing Preston to London in 2hours15 in a coach.

Try doing Guildford to Dorking in 20min by coach.

However try doing Haywards Heath to East Grinstead by train.

How better trains are then coaches depends on what railway lines were built and which ones are still open.

I would love to have a site that gives bus and coach reliability.

Today the bus turned up when I'd expect it to. However I couldn't board it as they were only accepting school children and it was full. It's usually full but there is just about room for others. The children all alight at the next stop, then it starts to fill up again with commuters.

Another bus then turned up 7 minutes later and this didn't take so long as less people needed to be pick up.

Given the buses are meant to run every 15 minutes, it's hard to know which bus was which in regards to the timetable. It may be that the first one was as late as usual and the second one was for a change on time.

I generally find the trains to be more reliable depending on what time you travel. There are times when if the train is on time it's such a rare event that you can say I was there when X train was on time.

However overall trains are more reliable as buses face road traffic. Trains only face rail traffic and it's often not as bad.

 

[radamfi]

Where you have frequent and fast trains and congested roads, coaches will generally only be used by people on a low budget, so that's generally the case in England. In Scotland and particularly Ireland, the train doesn't have so much of a speed advantage so coaches are more of a player, with more "normal" people using them. In much of southern and eastern Europe, trains have become run down and therefore coaches have become the primary form of long-distance public transport. In these circumstances, coach fares can be higher with trains being the "budget option".

In some parts of Europe, the growth of the high speed rail network has led to a decline in the cheaper "classic" train routes which can be exploited by coach firms. For example, before Thalys, business travellers between Amsterdam and Paris went by plane with everyone else using the regular low speed train. Now we have business travellers using Thalys, which can be quite a lot more expensive than the old train. The non-Thalys train option involves several changes and takes a lot longer than the old classic train. This has created a gap in the market for budget coach travel on this route and there are now at least four coach operators competing.

 

[IanD]

I generally prefer NX because you can track your coach so you know when it'll turn up and the waiting facilities tend to be better (see NX's Birmingham Coach Station vs Hill Street for Megabus).

Unless they change the bus halfway along the route and the tracker heads off to the depot with the original coach. Again, this happened to my friend when travelling from Leeds to Milton Keynes last Thursday evening. And then they switched it off and the tracking site just reverted to "this coach is expected to be on time" even though it was already an hour late when they swapped coaches. Not the first time it has happened either.

No word of apology from anyone and obviously no sign of compensation for the delay.