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Purpose of signals

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GuyBarry

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I don't work in the rail industry and I'm not a great expert on it, so forgive me if I've misunderstood this.

Yesterday I was waiting for my regular train from Chippenham to Bath. The indicator said there were delays "due to signalling problems between Swindon and Chippenham". As far as I can see there is one junction between Swindon and Chippenham, where the South Wales main line diverges from the Great Western main line. The trains to Chippenham, Bath and Bristol take the left fork. They do not cross the path of any other trains. Why do they need to be signalled? Is there anywhere else that a signal might need to be placed along that stretch of track?
 
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dave55uk

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I'm not overly familiar with the stretch of line you are referring to but...

'Signalling problems' could be a multitude of things. A signal light out necessitating trains being cautioned, maybe a point failure, something electrical gone 'pop'...

As for signalling itself, signals are not only to protect junctions. They are also used to regulate trains and maintain safe headways.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I don't work in the rail industry and I'm not a great expert on it, so forgive me if I've misunderstood this.

Yesterday I was waiting for my regular train from Chippenham to Bath. The indicator said there were delays "due to signalling problems between Swindon and Chippenham". As far as I can see there is one junction between Swindon and Chippenham, where the South Wales main line diverges from the Great Western main line. The trains to Chippenham, Bath and Bristol take the left fork. They do not cross the path of any other trains. Why do they need to be signalled? Is there anywhere else that a signal might need to be placed along that stretch of track?

In the 16-odd miles between Swindon and Chippenham there will be about 20 signalling sections, each with a 3 or 4-aspect colour light signal.
All of them need to be working correctly for your train to reach Chippenham.
There are complications like crossovers to/from other lines and the main junction at Wootton Bassett, plus lineside equipment, relays, AWS/TPWS etc, and miles of cabling.
"Signalling problems" is a euphemism for a fault in any of this lot, or in the power supply to it, or the communication systems, or in the control centre at Swindon.
Usually the lights then turn an obstinate red, or go out. Nothing can move until the fault is investigated and fixed or bypassed.
The railway is unfortunately a lot more complex than you make it sound.

Somewhere on here is a report of recent "signalling problems" at Lichfield, apparently caused by a rat chewing through cables...
I'm sure an expert will be along with the actual reason for your delay shortly!
 

broadgage

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Signals are required not only at junctions, but also in between in order to keep trains a safe distance apart.
In general, the closer the signal spacing, the more frequent a service may be run.

A safe railway could be run with signals say 20 miles apart, but remember that no train may be permited to enter that 20 mile section, until the previous train has left it, and been observed to leave it, either electronicly or by human observation.
Depending on the permited line speed, a 20 mile signal spacing would probably only only allow one or two trains an hour.

If instead the signals were closer together, then several trains could safely be in the same 20 miles of track, and a more frequent service be run.
 

DarloRich

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purpose of signals - generally, to stop the trains from running into each other or another object and to regulate the flow of traffic
 

wilsontown

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The key point being that for any reasonably fast linespeed, a train can't be stopped within the distance that the driver can see to be clear. So there has to be some way of warning the driver that he or she is approaching a train in front.
 

John Webb

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'Signalling faults' can also include the theft of the lineside cables which link and/or power the signals and related equipment.
 

AeroSpace

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To be very specific to the original post, one important reason for signals is to indicate to the driver that the points are indeed set for Chippenham and not the other route.
 

MattRobinson

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I think what you're doing here is confusing railway signals with traffic lights, which is understandable if you don't know anything about railways as they look generally quite similar. They are, however, quite different.

To understand why we need signals, we have to go right back to the beginning of the railways. At this point, they were like roads: anyone could get hold of a train and run it. Every train had to be proceeded by a man with a red flag. If two trains were on the same line, one had to go back to the nearest crossover and allow the other to pass.

As speeds increased this became unworkable as trains couldn't stop within the distances the drivers could see (this is to do with the fact that the locos wheels are steel and the rails are steel, so there isn't as much friction as between a road and a tyre), so they decided to split the railway into blocks controlled by signal boxes. The signalmen had to leave a specific length of time between trains to allow the preceding train to get to the next signal box. This was known, for obvious reasons, as the time interval system of working.

Unfortunately, as before, this was also found to be unworkable: if a train broke down in the section (and many did, in those early days), a train would only be a few minutes behind it. This lead to quite a few accidents, so the concept was changed. Instead of leaving a time interval between trains, a space interval was left instead. To achieve this, the line was split up between signal boxes and each section was called a block. Only one train could be in a block at any time (although some freight only lines and platforms used permissive block, whereby a train could enter the block while the train in front was still in the block), and this was achieved by the signalmen communicating by electric telegraph. If you had a clear signal, you had a clear run until the next block, and you could only run into the block if you had a clear signal.

Later, colour light signalling came into operation. This works in pretty much the same way as the block signalling outlined above, but the signals controlling straight sections of track are automatic (although there were some colour light signals controlled by the manual signal boxes, especially if the signals were a long way away). Junctions still require the input of the signaller.

So you can see that railway signals are different to traffic lights: they're needed for every stretch of line, not just to control traffic flows around junctions. You may want to read a book about signalling for more information, there are lots of them around.

HTH,
Matt
 

GuyBarry

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I think what you're doing here is confusing railway signals with traffic lights, which is understandable if you don't know anything about railways as they look generally quite similar. They are, however, quite different.

I see - thanks for your explanation.

So you can see that railway signals are different to traffic lights: they're needed for every stretch of line, not just to control traffic flows around junctions. You may want to read a book about signalling for more information, there are lots of them around.

Do you have a good reference (or a good website)?
 

transportphoto

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This video might be of interest to you:

[youtube]b4q3i5aw6XQ[/youtube]
 

MattRobinson

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Personally, I read an ABC pocket book entitled 'signalling in the age of steam', but it has small writing and is generally not a particularly light read, so it's not really a book for people with just a passing interest. If you want a historical book about why the method of signalling came about, you may wish to read a book called 'Red for Danger' which covers the reasoning behind why certain conventions came into being. Otherwise, the signal box site linked to above looks good.
 

Tomnick

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I'd certainly second 'Red for Danger' as one of the best books to read. It's often said that the Rule Book is written in the blood of numerous accidents in years gone by, and the same principle applies to the development of the signalling systems behind the Rules & Regs and the controls and safeguards provided.
 

ainsworth74

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It's often said that the Rule Book is written in the blood of numerous accidents in years gone by

You know I've never thought of it that way but it's probably pretty accurate. I imagine a lot of the rules and procedures laid out in the rule book can trace their origin to the aftermath of accidents and other incidents. Which I guess is a result of the way the railway learns. It's not always been very good at anticipating risks but it has always been very good at learning from accidents and mistakes and ensuring they don't happen again.

To the OP, Wikipedia has quite an extensive article on railway signalling.
 

Joseph_Locke

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but it has always been very good at learning from accidents and mistakes and ensuring they don't happen again.

Oh that it were so: the Board of Trade (forerunner of HMRI) had been cajoling the UK railway companies to adopt continuous automatic brakes and interlocked block signalling for many years and through many accidents before the last signalbox was interlocked with train detection and the last "unfitted" train ran (in the early 1980s, to my knowledge).

Armagh (1889), Welwyn (1935), Quintinshill (1915) and Abermule (1921) are good examples, none of them very ancient at all.
 

dave55uk

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For a grasp - and a handle on - signalling, I would suggest the book "British Railway Signalling", written by G.M. Kichenside and Alan Williams, first published by Ian Allen in 1963, although I have the second edition, which was published in 1968.
 
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