Quarantine

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect many people who do come back from France will say "Va te faire f***re" to the quarantine rules and carry on with their lives as normally as possible, whilst being sensible.

Then those people are a disgrace, frankly, and should be tracked down and have the relevant penalty imposed.

I have had to cancel my holiday to France next month, but if I had been affected by the quarantine rules, I would have booked myself a COVID-19 test on my return, which is what the government should be doing for everyone returning from countries on the quarantine list.

The problem is that if you're not showing symptoms there may not be enough viral load yet to detect it.

Then I would have had to go out to buy some food, which is OK because the virus stays outside the supermarket door.

Only if you CANNOT have it delivered, i.e. the other option is starvation. Most people can in some form. It is an emergency exemption, not a discretionary one. And minimise it - make one trip, choosing non-perishable foods if you can. Someone else posted upthread of having gone shopping six times during quarantine. This is criminally irresponsible.

He is effectively saying "serves you right for going abroad" and this is complete slap in the face for people who were actually following Foreign Office advice that it was "safe" to travel to France, and the other countries that have been removed from the list.

Seriously? It has been made very clear that this is a concession which could change at any point. It was obvious it was going to change for France for at least a week. It is your responsibility to keep abreast with the news (though I do know there are people, some of my family included, who prefer their head in a bucket of sand). It was seriously imprudent to embark on a trip to France in the last week or so, or one that would go through it.

Yes, you might lose your holiday and what you paid for it, but that's how it is in a pandemic. You took a risk by booking, unless it's been booked for months and you have had no chance to change it.

 

[Yew]

Apparently the threshold is 20/100000 (1/5000), Currently the ONS reckon that the community rate in the UK is around 1/1900. So they're saying that it's too risky to go somewhere with an infection rate of less than half of ours. That's before we consider the discussions about false positives (see other threads for this)

Overall, this policy of shutting the borders with a few hours notice is clearly not sustainable or fair. Fair enough if they advised people not to travel any longer, but punishing those who travelled out when the Government explicitly said that it was safe is ludicrous.

Seriously? It has been made very clear that this is a concession which could change at any point. It was obvious it was going to change for France for at least a week. It is your responsibility to keep abreast with the news (though I do know there are people, some of my family included, who prefer their head in a bucket of sand). It was seriously imprudent to embark on a trip to France in the last week or so, or one that would go through it.

Yes, you might lose your holiday and what you paid for it, but that's how it is in a pandemic. You took a risk by booking, unless it's been booked for months and you have had no chance to change it.

You really are a soul who is hell-bent on taking all the joys out of life, the things that actually make life worth living. Would it be acceptable to go shopping if it was only for gruel?

 

[LAX54]

Why hotels? Surely you'd prefer them to be thrown in internment camps on an unoccupied island guarded by the Army & Navy, with a shoot on sight policy? And whilst they are imprisoned their homes have big red crosses painted on them so that when they are finally released their neighbours know to stay away from the "unclean" who dared to go to those nasty "Not-Britain" countries.....



Worse than that, according to the Beeb there are about half a million people in France right now, most of whom won't be back in Blightly by tomorrow morning. Many of them when they get home might not be working when they get back, which is going to cause more damage than a 1 in 10,000 chance of them bringing the virus back. Still it keeps the lockdown activists & curtain twitchers happy....

Price for a flight back with B.A today, you have to pay the 'walk up' price: Paris to Heathrow £462 per person !

You really are a soul who is hell-bent on taking all the joys out of life, the things that actually make life worth living. Would it be acceptable to go shopping if it was only for gruel?

And as NZ found out, that shutting the borders, stopping this that and the other, really has no effect at all and it started with one country copying another country, who in turn was copied by another country, and now the Governments do not know where to go next, or how to save face and say, mmmmm made a mistake with all this, really it's not much worse than a bad flu season, no that we have reached that yet

 

[Bletchleyite]

You really are a soul who is hell-bent on taking all the joys out of life, the things that actually make life worth living. Would it be acceptable to go shopping if it was only for gruel?

No, I understand and accept the situation and feel that there are sensible short-term behaviour modifications that can be made to help along with it. You do not need a foreign holiday. Nobody does. They are enjoyable and have benefits, but in the context it's best not to.

 

[Yew]

And as NZ found out, that shutting the borders, stopping this that and the other, really has no effect at all and it started with one country copying another country, who in turn was copied by another country, and now the Governments do not know where to go next, or how to save face and say, mmmmm made a mistake with all this, really it's not much worse than a bad flu season, no that we have reached that yet

I wonder what other policies we'll copy from totalitarian communist dictators. We've already seen lots of executive willy-waving going around, and attempts to delay elections, and that's before we consider the single most invasive set of restrictions in history.

No, I understand and accept the situation and feel that there are sensible short-term behaviour modifications that can be made to help along with it. You do not need a foreign holiday. Nobody does. They are enjoyable and have benefits, but in the context it's best not to.

Short term ended months ago.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Short term ended months ago.

You'll probably have a lifespan of something like 65-100 years. A couple of years is short-term.

 

[Bantamzen]

Price for a flight back with B.A today, you have to pay the 'walk up' price: Paris to Heathrow £462 per person !

Unsuprising given the sudden surge of demand. Its likely by now pretty much all capacity across the channel has been chewed up.

No, I understand and accept the situation and feel that there are sensible short-term behaviour modifications that can be made to help along with it. You do not need a foreign holiday. Nobody does. They are enjoyable and have benefits, but in the context it's best not to.

In the context? That you have very slightly higher chance of getting the virus in France or Spain than here? So given that logic, shouldn't you be staying home instead of travelling as I believe you have? Hmmm?

As seems always to be the case, you seem to be happy to offer up other people's lives to look after your own.

 

[Jamiescott1]

No, I understand and accept the situation and feel that there are sensible short-term behaviour modifications that can be made to help along with it. You do not need a foreign holiday. Nobody does. They are enjoyable and have benefits, but in the context it's best not to.

I bet you think that any other position apart from missionary is not necessary and should be outlawed

 

[AdamWW]

I bet you think that any other position apart from missionary is not necessary and should be outlawed

I believe the current advice is to avoid face-to-face positions...

 

[Howardh]

You'll probably have a lifespan of something like 65-100 years. A couple of years is short-term.

When you are 61, and lose a year of travel (which by March 21 it will be a full year as I can't see the situation changing much before then) and live an active life to, say, 81, that's 5% of your long awaited chance to travel in retirement gone. That, in my book, is substantial.
"Travel in the UK" you scream. I've just as much chance of catching covid in the UK and bringing it home than I have in most overseas destinations. And in some places a lot less.
How long before "short term" becomes "long term"??

I believe the current advice is to avoid face-to-face positions...

Which is entirely understandable looking at my mug!!

 

[Shimbleshanks]

My wife will have to observe quarantine as she is currently in France on urgent family business. When she comes home, she's not supposed to go out in case she's contracted the virus. But I will be able to roam all over the country, willy-nilly, after being in close contact with her and having every chance of contracting the virus from her.
Where's the logic in that?

 

[Bletchleyite]

In the context? That you have very slightly higher chance of getting the virus in France or Spain than here? So given that logic, shouldn't you be staying home instead of travelling as I believe you have? Hmmm?

I've travelled in the UK. That keeps it domestic and thus simpler. I have not left the UK since September last year.

My wife will have to observe quarantine as she is currently in France on urgent family business. When she comes home, she's not supposed to go out in case she's contracted the virus. But I will be able to roam all over the country, willy-nilly, after being in close contact with her and having every chance of contracting the virus from her.
Where's the logic in that?

Not a lot, which is why hotel quarantine makes more sense.

 

[yorkie]

My wife will have to observe quarantine as she is currently in France on urgent family business. When she comes home, she's not supposed to go out in case she's contracted the virus. But I will be able to roam all over the country, willy-nilly, after being in close contact with her and having every chance of contracting the virus from her.
Where's the logic in that?

Quite. It's not based on logic; it's based on being seen to be doing something.

 

[Howardh]

My wife will have to observe quarantine as she is currently in France on urgent family business. When she comes home, she's not supposed to go out in case she's contracted the virus. But I will be able to roam all over the country, willy-nilly, after being in close contact with her and having every chance of contracting the virus from her.
Where's the logic in that?

Indeed, but shouldn't your household be back to square one (ie March) where isolation meant the lady isolates in one room and is fed with food left at the door?

Yes, I fully understand that isn't gonna happen!!

 

[Bantamzen]

I've travelled in the UK. That keeps it domestic and thus simpler. I have not left the UK since September last year.

How so? Is the virus more deadly in Europe?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How so? Is the virus more deadly in Europe?

We have no control over the policy of other countries, therefore the simplest approach is to keep it domestic and control what we can control ourselves.

 

[Bantamzen]

We have no control over the policy of other countries, therefore the simplest approach is to keep it domestic and control what we can control ourselves.

Viruses do not care for the policies of other countries, even when they have been stricter than ours. So you really haven't explained why your travels are safer than someone in France right now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Viruses do not care for the policies of other countries, even when they have been stricter than ours. So you really haven't explained why your travels are safer than someone in France right now.

They aren't necessarily, but it's about the whole thing, not just whether one person is safer. (Note that I favour quarantining ALL foreign travel).

 

[BJames]

One of my friends is legging it back across France today having managed to get a spot on the ferry by the sounds of it, as because of work he really can't afford to do the quarantine - they need him in. Pretty much everyone I know who fancied a trip abroad went to France, and they are all coming back today. The airports are going to be busy and from the sounds of it the Channel Tunnel trains are all booked up. Imposing it at such a short notice is unsustainable and it cannot go on like this - people will just ignore it as seen upthread.

 

[Bantamzen]

They aren't necessarily, but it's about the whole thing, not just whether one person is safer. (Note that I favour quarantining ALL foreign travel).

Oh I think we all know by now what you want!

 

[Howardh]

One of my friends is legging it back across France today having managed to get a spot on the ferry by the sounds of it, as because of work he really can't afford to do the quarantine - they need him in. Pretty much everyone I know who fancied a trip abroad went to France, and they are all coming back today. The airports are going to be busy and from the sounds of it the Channel Tunnel trains are all booked up. Imposing it at such a short notice is unsustainable and it cannot go on like this - people will just ignore it as seen upthread.

How can our authorities keep track of everyone returning from France and Spain in the next few weeks to make sure they keep to quarantine? Could be 100's of thousands. And in any case, as alluded to earlier, a family member returning with covid will simply be at risk of passing it on to the rest of the family at home - should the whole family quarantine too??

Also, something that could affect menext month, if you return from (say) Spain on September the 20th, and have already booked to fly out again a week later, what happens if you return from the first trip and quarantine....the next trip's half-way through?

 

[duncanp]

Seriously? It has been made very clear that this is a concession which could change at any point. It was obvious it was going to change for France for at least a week. It is your responsibility to keep abreast with the news (though I do know there are people, some of my family included, who prefer their head in a bucket of sand). It was seriously imprudent to embark on a trip to France in the last week or so, or one that would go through it.

Yes, you might lose your holiday and what you paid for it, but that's how it is in a pandemic. You took a risk by booking, unless it's been booked for months and you have had no chance to change it.

When the Foreign Office changed its travel advice in July, there was no mention then of the fact that the advice would change at short notice, and many people booked holidays on the not unreasonable assumption that it was safe to travel to those countries.

Holidays aren't cheap, and there are very few people who can afford to lose the money paid out by not going.

Still, as I can't go to France, I am going to Edinburgh intead.

But I have to change trains at ....Preston which is under local "lockdown"

What are the chances of the dreaded virus infecting me in the 15 minutes I am waiting on the platform for my connection

 

[yorkie]

How can our authorities keep track of everyone returning from France and Spain in the next few weeks to make sure they keep to quarantine? Could be 100's of thousands. And in any case, as alluded to earlier, a family member returning with covid will simply be at risk of passing it on to the rest of the family at home - should the whole family quarantine too??

They can't, and no they are not required to.

As stated above, it's just pandering and makes no sense.

 

[duncanp]

They can't, and no they are not required to.

As stated above, it's just pandering and makes no sense.

Of course it is jut pandering.

The existing "quarantine" rules say that regular commuters from the affected countries do not have to "quarantine" when they return home to the UK at the weekend.

Oh right, so the nasty virus doesn't affect them, does it?

Why should a businessman who regularly flies between the UK and France be able to get away without "quarantining", whereas a family who have spent their hard earned cash on a holiday in the sun have to shut themselves away for two weeks on their return.

 

[talldave]

Presumably the crew of flights from France don't have to quarantine because they have a uniform on which prevents them infecting people?

 

[Huntergreed]

Is the quarantine perhaps being used as a deterrent to attempt to discourage international travel, thus reducing the likelihood of incoming international infections and encourage more people to use the UK tourism and holiday sectors instead?

 

[Mikey C]

When the Foreign Office changed its travel advice in July, there was no mention then of the fact that the advice would change at short notice, and many people booked holidays on the not unreasonable assumption that it was safe to travel to those countries.

Holidays aren't cheap, and there are very few people who can afford to lose the money paid out by not going.

Still, as I can't go to France, I am going to Edinburgh intead.

But I have to change trains at ....Preston which is under local "lockdown"

What are the chances of the dreaded virus infecting me in the 15 minutes I am waiting on the platform for my connection

I thought it was fairly obvious that we were still in emergency, and that the rules on anything to do with Covid could change at short notice.

And the Spain rules changed over 2 weeks ago, so it's not as if this is the first time we've had a sudden change in the quarantine rules

 

[AdamWW]

Presumably the crew of flights from France don't have to quarantine because they have a uniform on which prevents them infecting people?

If we were aiming to eliminate coronavirus and had got infections down to near zero we'd need to do everything can to prevent any imported infection.

We aren't near zero and it doesn't look as if that's where we're trying to go.

In which case, it can still make sense to restrict imported infections without having to bring them to zero.

(This is not an endorsement of the UK policy with regard to France or anywhere else; it's intended as an explanation for why it isn't necessarily illogical to make exemptions).

 

[jumble]

Then those people are a disgrace, frankly, and should be tracked down and have the relevant penalty imposed.

Back in the real world no one will be doing much tracking down of anyone
This is because in this country one is not obliged to carry ID nor by and large to identify ones self so it makes it somewhat difficult to prove.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Holidays aren't cheap, and there are very few people who can afford to lose the money paid out by not going.

It's annoying, but absolutely everyone can afford to lose the money paid out by not going because it's sunk money. If you don't go on holiday, stay at home and watch TV or take local walks instead (i.e. free stuff) you've spent it, if you do go on holiday you've spent it. You might not be able to afford a replacement holiday, but that's different.

The one situation where it could cause genuine affordable issues would be if you'd booked all inclusive and couldn't afford the extra food at home for that week.

I thought it was fairly obvious that we were still in emergency, and that the rules on anything to do with Covid could change at short notice.

And the Spain rules changed over 2 weeks ago, so it's not as if this is the first time we've had a sudden change in the quarantine rules

And it has been clear France was on the cards for a week or more.