Query what year? Hornby Dublo Duchess of Montrose EDP12

[southgyle]

Hi there I just extricated this set from the top of the wardrobe, where it’s lain for around 25 years unused. I wanted to test it, and surprisingly the engine still powers round the track, although a tad noisily.
1) I’m aware the Duchess of Montrose was widely sold over a considerable number of years. I’ve attached a pic of my set, what’s the general consensus of the year this particular set was sold? (I acquired it 2nd hand around 1990)
2) I’ve got a few other bits and pieces track and rolling stock, and I’ve attached a pic of the 2 variations of track end which I have. What year did Hornby Dublo change over from the rounded end conductor to the larger squared-off conductor?
3) Finally when did Hornby cease using lead paint on their train sets? We have our young grandson visiting on occasions, and wondering whether it’s wise to have him playing with the old Duchess of Montrose?
Many thanks, in anticipation.

 

[hexagon789]

Hi there I just extricated this set from the top of the wardrobe, where it’s lain for around 25 years unused. I wanted to test it, and surprisingly the engine still powers round the track, although a tad noisily.
1) I’m aware the Duchess of Montrose was widely sold over a considerable number of years. I’ve attached a pic of my set, what’s the general consensus of the year this particular set was sold? (I acquired it 2nd hand around 1990)
2) I’ve got a few other bits and pieces track and rolling stock, and I’ve attached a pic of the 2 variations of track end which I have. What year did Hornby Dublo change over from the rounded end conductor to the larger squared-off conductor?
3) Finally when did Hornby cease using lead paint on their train sets? We have our young grandson visiting on occasions, and wondering whether it’s wise to have him playing with the old Duchess of Montrose?
Many thanks, in anticipation.

View attachment 153733

View attachment 153734

EDP12 was produced 1953-61.

 

[randyrippley]

They stopped selling three-rail track early 1960's, I'd guess at around 1962 so the set predates that

As for whether it's wise to have your grandson play with it.......have you checked the value?

 

[SCH117X]

EDP12 was produced 1953-61.

Ramsays British Model Trains Catalogue notes that from 1958 L12 was appplied under the cab roof, Matt finished locos were issued from 1954 along with gloss finished ones that had been available from 1953

 

[hexagon789]

Ramsays British Model Trains Catalogue notes that from 1958 L12 was appplied under the cab roof, Matt finished locos were issued from 1954 along with gloss finished ones that had been available from 1953

I hadn't appreciated that there were subtle differences in finish by year. Tbh, it was simply a quick search of Hornby Duplo/Meccano produced 'Duchess of Montrose' which produced the 1953-61 range I quoted. I checked the dates with a few sources - two said 1953-61 and one said 1958-61. None mentioned the matte/gloss finish differences mind you.

 

[southgyle]

Thanks for all your replies folks, that’s been really helpful. I’ve attached a couple of pics of the loco itself.
1) Looks like matt green paint which indicates the set itself dates from 1954 onwards? Playworn!
2) Definitely shows TYPE EDL12 under the cab roof which I guess confirms 1958 onwards? Was the cab roof just blank before 1958?

Any thoughts on the date of the changeover from small rounded track end connectors to larger squared-off ones?

 

[SCH117X]

Sorry - just to clarify my posting Ramsays gives Gloss 1953-1958, Matt 1954-1958, L12 under cab roof 1958-1962, as above (which may or not mean gloss and matt versions remained available)

 

[southgyle]

Hey no worries, your message has been really helpful, thanks for getting back.

 

[Bedpan]

I was given the Duchess of Montrose train set somewhere between Christmas 1959 and early 1961 I would say. Hornby Dublo 2 rail was definitely out by then, and three rail sets were discontinued soon after although I had no trouble getting a couple of new locos in the following years. I wouldn't be surprised if my parents got the three rail set at a discount as they were being discontinued.

At first sight I think my box was the same as yours, with the same boy gazing at his trains, the carboard partitioning inside my box is yellow rather than light blue, and more significantly my coaches were maroon rather than blood and custard which would suggest my set is newer than yours. The set uis currently right at the back of our loft, otherwise I'd have checked to see if there was a number under the cab roof.

As an aside, I'd always assumed that Duchess of Montroses might by now have a reasonable rarity value, but alas when I called into our local model railway exhibition a few years ago I was a bit shocked to see qhite a few on sale on various stalls.

 

[SCH117X]

As an aside, I'd always assumed that Duchess of Montroses might by now have a reasonable rarity value, but alas when I called into our local model railway exhibition a few years ago I was a bit shocked to see qhite a few on sale on various stalls.

Declining interest in Hornby Dublo and declining numbers of Hornby Dublo collectors I would think

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Hornby Dublo 2-rail was introduced in 1959 with the SER 'R1' 0-6-0 tank as the first loco - available intially only in sets. A very odd choice, given the prototype was by then only working on the Folkestone Harbour boat trains.

 

[SCH117X]

Can only imagine it was that they wanted a SR loco in the range but still a pretty weird choice being preceded by:

LNER A4 & N2 1938
LMS Duchess 1948
BR 4MT 2-6-4T 1954
GWR Castle 1957
LMS 8F & BR Class 20 1958

 

[30907]

Is the early BR crest an indication, or did they never change it?

 

[SCH117X]

Duchess of Montrose as made by Hornby Dublo always green with the early crest. The later logo was used on the maroon City of London. It was after the tooling passed to Wrenn that green vserions of the "Duchess" class appeared with the late logo right upto 1992.

 

[southgyle]

Can you give me an indication what year the 3-rail track changed from the early rounded connector to the later squared-off connector. I seem to have a lot of this early track in a box in the loft, can’t remember exactly how it came into my possession (possibly a car-boot!).

 

[Bedpan]

Can' help with the track connectors I'm afraid, having inherited quite a lot of extra track in the mid 60s from a friend who had converted his layout to two rail. I do remember the two rail version of the class being City of London, IO must say I much preferred having Duchess of Montrose to that

Declining interest in Hornby Dublo and declining numbers of Hornby Dublo collectors I would think

I must say at the time the locos l had looked to me to be pretty authentic, with the exception of the N2 maybe, but nowadays they look anything but, so I can see why interest has declined..
.

 

[randyrippley]

Can only imagine it was that they wanted a SR loco in the range but still a pretty weird choice being preceded by:

LNER A4 & N2 1938
LMS Duchess 1948
BR 4MT 2-6-4T 1954
GWR Castle 1957
LMS 8F & BR Class 20 1958

Wasn't it their first plastic bodied loco? They picked a small tank as a trial production

 

[SCH117X]

Wasn't it their first plastic bodied loco? They picked a small tank as a trial production

It was but there are plenty more numerous small tank engines they could have picked. Of course the limited number and liveries possible were countered by Wrenn offering it in LMS red, Esso, Shell, North Thames Gas, purple (QE2 60th), and two Wrenn staff named versions in balck and silver.

 

[uglymonkey]

Funny enough, I brought this exact same set off Ebay about 3 weeks ago! I checked and the loco is matt green and again with the EDL12 under cab roof which puts mine 1958-1962 as well.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

It was but there are plenty more numerous small tank engines they could have picked. Of course the limited number and liveries possible were countered by Wrenn offering it in LMS red, Esso, Shell, North Thames Gas, purple (QE2 60th), and two Wrenn staff named versions in balck and silver.

I guess they were trying to fend off the Triang competion with something inexpensive and sufficiently 'cute' for the younger market, but they did make some other oddball choices - the Metrovick Co-Bo was another. Two-rail came far too late of course, and they managed to flunk that initially with the live frogs on points and the complicated wiring that entailed.

 

[uglymonkey]

They should have stuck with 3 rail, but just upgraded the track, get rid of the tinplate base, plastic sleepers and maybe a thinner middle contact line. The change of producing 3 andd 2 rail along side each other must have been crippling, as well as Triang being cheaper and more "modern" with plastic injection mouldings when Hornby were still carrying on with tinplate, until they were forced to change.

 

[Westinghouse]

They should have stuck with 3 rail, but just upgraded the track, get rid of the tinplate base, plastic sleepers and maybe a thinner middle contact line. The change of producing 3 andd 2 rail along side each other must have been crippling, as well as Triang being cheaper and more "modern" with plastic injection mouldings when Hornby were still carrying on with tinplate, until they were forced to change.

In the late 1950's/early 60's Peco produced 3 rail flexible track. I saved my pocket money and bought 2 lengths. To my mind it looked more like the "real thing". I can't remember how I joined it up to my 3 rail Horby tinplate track. Subtle tweaking with separate fishplates (?) The sleepers were a black compressed fibreous material rather than plastic. I don't know if Peco made 3 rail points or not.

 

[uglymonkey]

In the late 1950's/early 60's Peco produced 3 rail flexible track. I saved my pocket money and bought 2 lengths. To my mind it looked more like the "real thing". I can't remember how I joined it up to my 3 rail Horby tinplate track. Subtle tweaking with separate fishplates (?) The sleepers were a black compressed fibreous material rather than plastic. I don't know if Peco made 3 rail points or not.

Didn't know about that. Interesting.

 

[Bevan Price]

Can only imagine it was that they wanted a SR loco in the range but still a pretty weird choice being preceded by:

LNER A4 & N2 1938
LMS Duchess 1948
BR 4MT 2-6-4T 1954
GWR Castle 1957
LMS 8F & BR Class 20 1958

There was already a 3 rail SR loco - a rebuilt light Pacific (34042)

 

[SCH117X]

There was already a 3 rail SR loco - a rebuilt light Pacific (34042)

Dorchester was not released until 1961, two years after the R1 was. It was accompanied by a 2 -rail version; 34005 Barnstaple.

 

[peteb]

Can you give me an indication what year the 3-rail track changed from the early rounded connector to the later squared-off connector. I seem to have a lot of this early track in a box in the loft, can’t remember exactly how it came into my possession (possibly a car-boot!).

Isolating switch points illustration June 1953 Meccano Magazine shows round connectors, as does advert for diamond crossing and uncoupling rail and switch October 1954 Meccano Magazine. I've assumed these replaced the earlier squared-off connectors. But now I'm not sure so will enquire and get back to you.

You might find this helpful:

Home

Hornby Railway Collectors' Association

www.hrca.net

For all things Hornby Dublo related!!

 

[southgyle]

Hi Peterb many thanks for the message and Hornby link.
Re the “rounded” and “squared-off” track connectors, I remember receiving the basic Hornby Dublo tank goods train set from my parents for Xmas 1961, and it definitely had the later squared-off type of track. So I think the rounded type is from an earlier era, possibly pre mid 1950’s or thereabouts?

 

[peteb]

Hi Peterb many thanks for the message and Hornby link.
Re the “rounded” and “squared-off” track connectors, I remember receiving the basic Hornby Dublo tank goods train set from my parents for Xmas 1961, and it definitely had the later squared-off type of track. So I think the rounded type is from an earlier era, possibly pre mid 1950’s or thereabouts?

I'm asking around the HRCA so hopefully will be able to give you a definitive answer soon!