Question from A Blind Passenger about Conductor asking for my destination

[BlndBnt]

Hi, this is my first post.

I am Registered Blind, and a very regular rail passenger. I am an independent, confident traveller who has nothing but praise and respect for the station & train staff I encounter on my travels with Northern Rail.

I use a South Yorkshire Blind Persons pass and only use the pass in the designated catchment areas.

One thing has started to slightly bother me - sometimes I am asked "Do you need any assistance?" by the train conductor.
While this is completely understandable and probably a part of the train companies Disability policy, often I am only asked "What station are you getting off at?", followed by them repeating the name of the station back to me (example - "XxXxX, right, ok")

To me that is a massive indicator to any criminally minded person that I will most probably be a sitting duck at the rural station where I disembark - especially as the majority of my journeys end at 10.30p and I am a very short female.

I have tried to counter this by politely saying "Thankyou, but I will not need any assistance" only for the conductor to ask again which station I am getting off at.

Please do any forum members know of any other reason why the conductor would need to know my destination, or if there are any safer alternative ways to answer the question?

My routes do not involve the train going out of the travel pass acceptance area so cannot imagine it would be due to the conductor needing to ensure I am not trying to underpay a journey.

Incidentally, if there are any Northern Rail staff reading this - I think you are all really helpful and polite.

 

[MrPIC]

Probably just o they can keep an eye out and make sure you get off where you intend. I always like to ask disabled passengers where they are getting off as then I know to wait until I can see them actually get off the train (as they may need longer to physically disembark from the train).

 

[EssexCommuter]

Hi, this is my first post.

I am Registered Blind, and a very regular rail passenger. I am an independent, confident traveller who has nothing but praise and respect for the station & train staff I encounter on my travels with Northern Rail.

I use a South Yorkshire Blind Persons pass and only use the pass in the designated catchment areas.

One thing has started to slightly bother me - sometimes I am asked "Do you need any assistance?" by the train conductor.
While this is completely understandable and probably a part of the train companies Disability policy, often I am only asked "What station are you getting off at?", followed by them repeating the name of the station back to me (example - "XxXxX, right, ok")

To me that is a massive indicator to any criminally minded person that I will most probably be a sitting duck at the rural station where I disembark - especially as the majority of my journeys end at 10.30p and I am a very short female.

I have tried to counter this by politely saying "Thankyou, but I will not need any assistance" only for the conductor to ask again which station I am getting off at.

Please do any forum members know of any other reason why the conductor would need to know my destination, or if there are any safer alternative ways to answer the question?

My routes do not involve the train going out of the travel pass acceptance area so cannot imagine it would be due to the conductor needing to ensure I am not trying to underpay a journey.

Incidentally, if there are any Northern Rail staff reading this - I think you are all really helpful and polite.

The conductor checks tickets, so is always entitled to know where you are going.
You are a confident traveller who happens to be registered blind. What about those registered blind who are not confident traveling alone? They would love to have the service you have received. You are sitting duck to those criminally minded (very small percentage) or you are grateful to those who want to help.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Probably just so they can keep an eye out and make sure you get off where you intend. I always like to ask disabled passengers where they are getting off as then I know to wait until I can see them actually get off the train (as they may need longer to physically disembark from the train).

That was my practice too. I would normally also confirm whether or not the passenger was familiar with their destination station; on one occasion the response was less than confident so I watched them off the platform and it was as well I did as they struggled with a swing gate which I had to assist them with in the end.

 

[N228PF]

If you don't feel comfortable verbally stating your destination, would it be possible to write down your destination? I'm not sure of your methods for typing on this forum, or your degree of blindness, but maybe if you had an index card or a memo on your phone to show the conductor, they would get the assurance they need.

 

[SPADTrap]

What is to stop such a person watching where you disembark themselves anyway? Getting off a train is hardly secret.

They're asking so they know to look out for you and also if they have to evacuate, they'll know you'll potentially need assistance, especially if it's an emergency onto the tracks.

 

[philthetube]

All members of train staff are trained to repeat information back if it is safety critical to check it is correct, this will inevitably carry over to other information received, apart from the suggestion with a card I don't see how you will get round this.

I know this dosn't apply to you but as a DOO driver I always want to know where any assisted passenger is leaving my train then I can keep aware in case of problems.

 

[DarloRich]

they are probably trying to offer you some help, reassurance and support.

 

[BlndBnt]

Probably just o they can keep an eye out and make sure you get off where you intend. I always like to ask disabled passengers where they are getting off as then I know to wait until I can see them actually get off the train (as they may need longer to physically disembark from the train).

Thanks for that.
As I am someone who always pays attention to the progress of my journey and is actually much quicker getting off the train than the majority of the non-disabled passengers I encounter, do you have any suggestions on a suitable reply to give a conductor that does not alert the other passengers to my destination?

It has happened before that a man who was on the phone said to his caller after the conductor had asked where I am going "there's a blind girl getting off at XxXxX " and lo and behold, I have been hassled by him and a group of males (who by the sound of it knew each other) and I don't want it to happen again.

 

[Flamingo]

I'll always ask everybody with a DSB railcard will they need any assistance. It saves having to sort it at short notice at the station.

Regards saying the station, I must admit, I'm inclined to do that with every ticket, even if just under my breath. It's just my way on focusing where it's going to. I will always say where changes are, and if the ticket will work the tube.

 

[BlndBnt]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

It seems there is no easy solution to this.

Thankyou for your input.

 

[krus_aragon]

Another reason for guards to ask is if there are any request stops on your train's route; they'll need to ask everyone's destination, or ask each carriage “anyone for XxXxX?”

 

[SuperOwl86]

I am also from South Yorkshire with a mobility pass and the impression I get when the conductor asks where I am getting off is to check if i am not going over the boundary into another area where I have to pay. So i almost always get asked on the Lincoin service and Hull and very rare on the services upto Leeds.

 

[Phil.]

Get a card printed.
"I am registered blind. I am travelling to %£%^&*(%$. I do not need any assistance. Thankyou."

 

[LowLevel]

I'll always ask as well, again it's not to see if you need any help - anyone who needs it will generally ask for it when I check the ticket.

It's a) because in the event of an emergency evacuation into a situation you're less familiar with (perhaps onto the lineside) you may need more of my attention than other folk, or if something happens causing the train to come out of service at an unusual location etc - I wouldn't make a huge fuss over you and belittle you etc but as the guard I am obliged to ensure everyone is safe and experience tells me that I have many visually impaired regulars who don't need any help at all, we just politely share the time of day - but if something out of the ordinary that affects their mental map occurs they generally ask for a hand.

B) also applies and it's as other people have said - we check tickets on auto pilot. I always ask pass holders their destination to ensure the pass is valid and I don't really vary that on different routes even if the pass is valid on the whole route - ticket checking becomes a very automatic process as you see thousands in a week. I wouldn't think to vary it as it were.

To echo what someone else has said, we do have a customer who doesn't particularly like saying their destination out loud as they have a mental health condition that involves anxiety. They just write polite notes on a pad and it works well enough.

 

[GadgetMan]

One of the reasons why I asked Visually Impaired passengers where they were traveling to was to ensure I went out of my way to announce the approach to their station. Although we announced all approaches anyway sometimes if you got stuck doing tickets you'd end up going straight to releasing doors and missing the announcement out which was more of a problem for visually impaired passengers.

 

[tsr]

If you can tell that somebody has or potentially could have a disability, at my TOC it's mandatory for the crew to be told or find out where they are travelling to. This is for the reasons of evacuation, monitoring door procedures and train dispatch, and lastly providing any assistance if requested. Generally speaking, I actually find that many visually impaired people are some of the most confident travellers and as it happens sometimes the most observant as well! So often they don't need any assistance and I'm fine with that. Sometimes, of course, being that confident means the passenger will inevitably get swept up in the usual crowds of people, and you eventually find them, minding their own business without any worries, which can make asking the necessary questions quite embarrassing, but it's part of the safety drill. This information is also mentioned if train crew hand over the train to others mid-journey.

Sometimes the biggest challenges can be when you have to deduce hidden or mental disabilities, and interpret the scope of assistance needed. Station staff may have noticed... but may only have noticed at the last minute whilst on the platform before the train arrives, and if you're a conductor on your own, try spotting that sort of thing from half way down the platform! Once known, you'd still also have to make other crew aware, and bear this sort of thing in mind during any emergencies, but finding out is more difficult.

 

[FordFocus]

When I was a guard it was for several reasons.

1) Ensure they are on the correct train
2) Whether they had booked or required assistance at their station
3) Announce the station in good time if there was no automated PA system
4) Allow extra time when closing the doors and keep an eye on them for if there is a step or gap at a station.

 

[TheManBehind]

One thing has started to slightly bother me - sometimes I am asked "Do you need any assistance?" by the train conductor.
While this is completely understandable and probably a part of the train companies Disability policy, often I am only asked "What station are you getting off at?", followed by them repeating the name of the station back to me (example - "XxXxX, right, ok")

To me that is a massive indicator to any criminally minded person that I will most probably be a sitting duck at the rural station where I disembark - especially as the majority of my journeys end at 10.30p and I am a very short female.

That's an interesting point - I always used to ask what station the customer was travelling to, followed by asking if they wanted any assistance - but never thought about how I may be broadcasting that information and putting lone travellers in danger. If I was taking a phone number I wouldn't do it, but stations always seemed very innocuous - as your experience has shown, not always the case.

I'll mention it to a couple of trainers (not your local operator, I'm afraid) I have a drink with and see if we can put our heads together about a solution..! I imagine it probably will be a case of guards asking a bit more subtly, or reading the ticket before asking about assistance, but it would be interesting to see if they have any ideas.

It's an excellent point to raise, so thank you.

 

[455driver]

Deleted.

 

[Anvil1984]

That's an interesting point - I always used to ask what station the customer was travelling to, followed by asking if they wanted any assistance - but never thought about how I may be broadcasting that information and putting lone travellers in danger. If I was taking a phone number I wouldn't do it, but stations always seemed very innocuous - as your experience has shown, not always the case.

I'll mention it to a couple of trainers (not your local operator, I'm afraid) I have a drink with and see if we can put our heads together about a solution..! I imagine it probably will be a case of guards asking a bit more subtly, or reading the ticket before asking about assistance, but it would be interesting to see if they have any ideas.

It's an excellent point to raise, so thank you.

It's a South Yorkshire Concessionary Pass so no destination stated on the pass that's why the guard has to ask where the passenger was getting off so they can keep an eye out

 

[TheManBehind]

How exactly would you be more vulnerable because the guard asked where you would be leaving the train?

Any low life who had picked you as a target would just watch and follow you regardless of the guard asking!

Once again its a case of the railway staff not being able to do right even when going above and beyond normal service, sometimes I wonder why we bother!

Whilst I can't speak for her, I suspect that she feels that the act of basically broadcasting her destination, and identifying her as a person in potential need of additional assistance may draw the attention of unsavoury types. It's a valid concern, particularly at rural stations, where staff are non-existent, and often CCTV too I suspect.

I also seem to recall offering assistance is one of the most basic tenets of good customer service - hardly going above and beyond! It's simply being asked whether it could be done in a better, more subtle way that keeps the customer safe.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's a South Yorkshire Concessionary Pass so no destination stated on the pass that's why the guard has to ask where the passenger was getting off so they can keep an eye out

Ah, well, quite understandable then - I've had the same issue with London Concessionary Passes. It sounds like subtlety could be the order of the day - or even asking if assistance is needed first, then asking about the station if the customer says yes!

 

[BlndBnt]

Thankyou again for all your replies.

The whole purpose of posting was to discover the reasons why this is asked - especially when on a journey where the train line itself doesn't extend past the South Yorkshire boundary.

Obviously as a passenger I was not aware of the miriad of different reasons - all of them very valid and important, just as probably you were not aware of the situation from a lone female passenger's point of view.

My next rail journey is tomorrow - I shall certainly be treating the "Dreaded Question" with a different viewpoint (pun greatly intended! ) after all your help.

Thankyou again,
BlndBnt

 

[Scott M]

Not wanting to be patronizing, but is it a good idea for a blind female be getting off a train alone at a rural station in the dark?

 

[BlndBnt]

Not wanting to be patronizing, but is it a good idea for a blind female be getting off a train alone at a rural station in the dark?

Well, it is a good idea because otherwise I would have to sleep on the train.
I have to go home at some point. Lol

 

[LowLevel]

Not wanting to be patronizing, but is it a good idea for a blind female be getting off a train alone at a rural station in the dark?

People have to live their lives disabled or not. I know a powered wheelchair user who gets off at Swinderby (which is very remote) then drives several miles down unlit country lanes in the dark. It's the only way to go about her business, so she does it.

 

[infobleep]

I don't wish to hijack this thread but it explains one of the good reasons why it's worth having a guard on the train.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[BlndBnt]

I don't wish to hijack this thread but it explains one of the good reasons why it's worth having a guard on the train.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

I think the whole "Getting rid of guards on the train" situation is ridiculous. We need them to stay.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

People have to live their lives disabled or not. I know a powered wheelchair user who gets off at Swinderby (which is very remote) then drives several miles down unlit country lanes in the dark. It's the only way to go about her business, so she does it.

Exactly.
I work 2 jobs, and have 3 children.
Just because my eyes are b*ggered doesn't mean that I should stay at home and do nothing.

 

[theironroad]

I'm 99% certain that it has nothing to do with the ticket/pass you hold and alll to do with customer service,the type of customer service that the guard can provide.

Part of it is a genuine desire to see if you need some help,which clearly you don't but it is also a self preservation instinct on the guards behalf. In the last few years there have been a few incidents of PTI incidents ( thats 'platform train interface ' for all of you scratching your heads ) that have ended in the courts with the guard facing prosecution for negligence etc.

I appreciate its not ideal, but please don't think it's personal.

 

[GadgetMan]

If being asked where you're traveling to is a genuine issue. Then I suggest you write to the Train Company concerned, thank their staff for being caring and friendly but explain the issue and what stations you normally travel between. Ask them to put a memo out to guards mentioning you specifically and the journey you make and to not ask where you are traveling to out loud. I'm sure they'll understand and try and respect the request.