R A I B Report on Waterloo collision

[krus_aragon]

This is true, but you also have to consider that points C were clipped normal as they were under the engineering train. This meant that the detection of A and B was false-fed regardless of their actual position. If the safety precaution of clipping points C handn't been followed then the accident might not have happened (though some other accident might).

Is it the case that even if A and B were clipped for the duration of the work, the extra wire left behind could have led to an equivalent derailment or collision after the whole station was handed back? That'd seem reasonable for the RAIB not to labour the point-clipping issue in their report.

 

[edwin_m]

Is it the case that even if A and B were clipped for the duration of the work, the extra wire left behind could have led to an equivalent derailment or collision after the whole station was handed back? That'd seem reasonable for the RAIB not to labour the point-clipping issue in their report.

In principle the wire count should pick up any extra wires that shouldn't be there. But seein as other bits of the procedure were ignored, and the temporary wiring would have compromised the integrity of the wire count, perhaps not in practice.

In any case the point clipping should have been a backstop (albeit a sensible and important one). If the procedures on signal design and installation are not followed then there's likely to be a serious accident sooner or later, possibly in circumstances where point clipping would make no difference.

 

[ComUtoR]

And I honestly think that sooner or later that complacency will lead to a serious incident.

Cheers for the reply.

 

[whhistle]

I appreciate the RAIB's note about the driver checking the position of the points.
It's not something I would have thought a driver do, especially in complicated areas such as Waterloo, so good on that driver!

And I honestly think that sooner or later that complacency will lead to a serious incident.

This is probably true.
But then nothing can work forever without going wrong. I'm not saying it's acceptable or that we should be expecting some sort of fatal incident/accident. I wonder how long the longest time between fatal incidents/accidents is - even including other countries.

 

[XDM]

Too much pressure to do to much work in too little possession.
This was a huge signalling changeover, which unfortunately was badly planned from the outset, and designed as one big commissioning, rather than being split into stages.
By the time it was realised that there was a problem, it was too late to redesign it to carve up into separate stages and still meet the programmed dates.
I understand that in the run up to the blockade, NR commissioned internal and 3rd party reviews into the feasibility of the commissioning strategy, every one of which came out with a recommendation to reprogramme with a longer possession, and/or redesign and split the work.
The politics of delaying the work (for at least a year) meant that all these recommendations were overruled at progressively higher and higher levels in NR.
This is the result.

As a complete layman re signal technology I think the report is brilliant in explaining the accident very clearly to the man in the street.

I have read it through twice, & none of the serious claims made by Signal Head are in the report.

The report specifically dismisses fatigue or pressure as a cause.

Nor is there a word about the issue introduced by Signal Head with the phrase. "I understand....".
His " I understand" allegation is so serious that it would have featured heavily in the report if true.

The joy of the forum is that informed & knowledgeable people bring their experience to the rest of us. There are many very well informed posters on this thread & elsewhere on the Forum.

Signal Head's post is very different. It mislead me, until I checked it against the facts in the report & realised that RAIB do not confirm what he tells us.
To be any use posts should be based on fact, not beliefs or wishes.

 

[edwin_m]

I believe Signal Head is closer to the actual work described than anyone else contributing to this thread, so would suggest not to dismiss his/her view so lightly. In a sense it is even more worrying if people aren't following the procedures and don't even have the excuse of being under pressure.

 

[hwl]

I believe Signal Head is closer to the actual work described than anyone else contributing to this thread, so would suggest not to dismiss his/her view so lightly. In a sense it is even more worrying if people aren't following the procedures and don't even have the excuse of being under pressure.

Agreed - my understanding also aligns with Signal Heads.

XDM might like to carefully review the complete Waterloo Works thread including the comments (before the blockade) about delaying or extending the blockade and the extension of the works area to include Platform 10.