Racist Woman on Croydon tram given community sentence

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But society needs its villains to demonise doesn't it? No matter that they may be mentally ill. :roll:

Indeed society needs it's demons, hence why immigrants are constantly vilified by thickos.

Immigrants are just the scape goats for the problems caused by the rich.
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I hope no passengers on the tram were too affected by Miss West's outburst, and any treatment or plan thereof during the mental health treatment order actually helps her.

Kind of a sad story really.

A lot of poor areas, especially in London seem to have a very high proportion of mental illness. I'm surprised she hasn't been attcked yet for her comments

 

[bnm]

A lot of poor areas, especially in London seem to have a very high proportion of mental illness. I'm surprised she hasn't been attcked yet for her comments

Beaten to the ground outside her house and online threats to torch her house.

 

[Antman]

Indeed society needs it's demons, hence why immigrants are constantly vilified by thickos.

Immigrants are just the scape goats for the problems caused by the rich.
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What a strange comment!

It is ok to object to immigration but in a more tactful way than Emma West did
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Beaten to the ground outside her house and online threats to torch her house.

So much for free speech

 

[bnm]

So much for free speech

What a strange comment!

Firstly, it seems apparent that Emma West was 'out of character' when she ranted on the tram. I'll point out again that her close friend said, when interviewed by the local paper, that it wouldn't have mattered what the demographic was on the tram at that time, she'd likely have ranted at anyone. I see that as symptomatic of her illness, not her expressing sincerely held views.

Secondly, there is no such thing as free speech. Various laws prevent speech that is considered offensive, racist, sexist etc.

That she broke the law is not in dispute now that's she's pleaded guilty. But the public vilification she has been subject to now needs to be tempered with the knowledge that she was mentally ill at the time.

Everyone is free to fit her crime to whatever agenda they have, or to the views they hold. I see a mentally ill woman first and foremost.

 

[transmanche]

I see a mentally ill woman first and foremost.

Well said.

When the story first broke, I was disgusted at what I saw and hoped they'd throw the book at her. Now more facts have emerged, I'm more sympathetic - and see someone who needs help rather than punishment.

 

[Antman]

What a strange comment!

Firstly, it seems apparent that Emma West was 'out of character' when she ranted on the tram. I'll point out again that her close friend said, when interviewed by the local paper, that it wouldn't have mattered what the demographic was on the tram at that time, she'd likely have ranted at anyone. I see that as symptomatic of her illness, not her expressing sincerely held views.

Secondly, there is no such thing as free speech. Various laws prevent speech that is considered offensive, racist, sexist etc.

That she broke the law is not in dispute now that's she's pleaded guilty. But the public vilification she has been subject to now needs to be tempered with the knowledge that she was mentally ill at the time.

Everyone is free to fit her crime to whatever agenda they have, or to the views they hold. I see a mentally ill woman first and foremost.

Of course it is entirely subjective as to what is offensive sexist or racist and there is a lot of inconsistency in the way any such laws are applied.

For example, isn't the Black Police Assoc by definition a racist group?

 

[bnm]

For example, isn't the Black Police Assoc by definition a racist group?

Only in the eyes of those who want it to be. An organisation that's core tenets are the promotion of equality and good race relations is as far from a racist group as I can imagine.

Minority groups should have the right to organisation without themselves being branded as racist.

 

[youngboy]

Of course it is entirely subjective as to what is offensive sexist or racist and there is a lot of inconsistency in the way any such laws are applied.

For example, isn't the Black Police Assoc by definition a racist group?

I would say it is, I would also categorise the Music of Black Origin awards the same way.

I think you only need to reverse them to see they would definitely be considered racist and offensive the other way round.
Imagine renaming the Brits.....The White British Awards

 

[transmanche]

I would say it is, I would also categorise the Music of Black Origin awards the same way.

It's the Music of Black Origin awards, not performers. There have been plenty of white winners of MOBO awards.

 

[bnm]

Reversing the criteria is a fatuous argument as well.

White police officers are not a minority group.

 

[youngboy]

Reversing the criteria is a fatuous argument as well.

White police officers are not a minority group.

And ??? So you're saying the White police officer's association wouldn't be racist or it would because there's more of them so that doesn't count

 

[samxool]

Reversing the criteria is a fatuous argument as well.

White police officers are not a minority group.

they will be if this unrelenting mass immigration and extremely high birth rates among ethnics doesn't come to an end soon.

 

[TOCDriver]

There are a lot of very, very poor people in the world and you can't blame them for wanting a better life for themselves and their children. We should all love each other and not hate but unfortunately there is only a certain amount we can do as a country. The distribution of wealth within the world is obscene - I don't know what the answer is.

 

[Deerfold]

they will be if this unrelenting mass immigration and extremely high birth rates among ethnics doesn't come to an end soon.

I didn't realise there were a large number of people of varying backgrounds applying to become police officers.

That sounds like an improvement.

 

[Antman]

There are a lot of very, very poor people in the world and you can't blame them for wanting a better life for themselves and their children. We should all love each other and not hate but unfortunately there is only a certain amount we can do as a country. The distribution of wealth within the world is obscene - I don't know what the answer is.

That is true and there but for the grace of God goes anyone of us.

However we live on a very crowded island and I'm afraid that an open door immigration policy is just not viable.

 

[transmanche]

However we live on a very crowded island and I'm afraid that an open door immigration policy is just not viable.

Crowded Island? Another one of those myths spread by the far right. (As is 'open door immigration'.)

With a population density of 673 people per sq mile, the UK is less 'crowded' than Japan (873), Belgium (945) or the Netherlands (1,287). And positively spacious compared with some places connected with the UK such as Guernsey (2,072), Jersey (2,186) or Malta (3,421).

You want crowded? Try Gibraltar (11,007), Hong Kong (16,876) or Singapore (19,544).

 

[Antman]

Crowded Island? Another one of those myths spread by the far right. (As is 'open door immigration'.)

With a population density of 673 people per sq mile, the UK is less 'crowded' than Japan (873), Belgium (945) or the Netherlands (1,287). And positively spacious compared with some places connected with the UK such as Guernsey (2,072), Jersey (2,186) or Malta (3,421).

You want crowded? Try Gibraltar (11,007), Hong Kong (16,876) or Singapore (19,544).

Oh for goodness sake, have you been to a hospital A&E recently, tried to get a doctors appointment, schools where many kids cannot speak English?

Have you seen the mess around Marble Arch where immigrants had set up a shanty town? Local shops were overwhelmed with shoplifters.

Oh but its all a right wing myth is it?

The Australians have the right idea on immigration!

 

[Oswyntail]

Oh for goodness sake, have you been to a hospital A&E recently, tried to get a doctors appointment,

Yes, and it is all made a lot easier by the number of immigrant medical staff (as well as British)

schools where many kids cannot speak English?

And that's only the English-born ones . Are these kids immigrants? Are their parents? There is a problem in Bradford at least with language use, a couple of generations after immigration.

Have you seen the mess around Marble Arch where immigrants had set up a shanty town?

No, can't comment

Local shops were overwhelmed with shoplifters.

Of course, there has never been a British-born shoplifter

Oh but its all a right wing myth is it?

The Australians have the right idea on immigration!

Just listen to yourself:roll:! Besides, none of this has any bearing on how crowded the island is (which, IMHO, is better considered in the ratio of population to resources and activities)

 

[Metrailway]

I didn't realise there were a large number of people of varying backgrounds applying to become police officers.

That sounds like an improvement.

The vast majority of applicants are white. The Met have recently called for a change in the law so that they could discriminate against white applicants and positively discrimnate in favour of BME candidates. They want to recruite a 1:1 ratio of white:ethnic minority police officers so that their police force reflects the demographics of Greater London.

Crowded Island? Another one of those myths spread by the far right. (As is 'open door immigration'.)

With a population density of 673 people per sq mile, the UK is less 'crowded' than Japan (873), Belgium (945) or the Netherlands (1,287). And positively spacious compared with some places connected with the UK such as Guernsey (2,072), Jersey (2,186) or Malta (3,421).

You want crowded? Try Gibraltar (11,007), Hong Kong (16,876) or Singapore (19,544).

It is not really fair to compare city states such as Hong Kong or small islands such as Malta to the much larger UK.

It is well known that the vast majority of immigrants over the past 20 years have settled in England, and particularly London & the South East areas of England. The nations of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have had relatively small amounts of immigration.

Greater London has a population density of 13,480 people per sq mile.

London & the South East (NUTS regions Greater London, South East England, East of England) which has a similar area to the Netherlands (15362 sq miles vs 16039 sq miles) has a density of approximately 1475 people per sq mile.

England as a whole has a population density of 1054 people per sq mile.

These figures are derived from 2011 census figures.

The massive problem in the UK is the spread of population. It could be argued that London and the South East is 'over populated' whilst Scotland is 'under populated'. Of course it does depend on how you would define 'over population' and 'under population'; every person would have a differing opinion.

 

[transmanche]

It is not really fair to compare city states such as Hong Kong or small islands such as Malta to the much larger UK.

True, but done to demonstrate the point that you picked up on...

The massive problem in the UK is the spread of population.

Exactly. Britain is not over-crowded, its population is just poorly distributed.

 

[Antman]

Yes, and it is all made a lot easier by the number of immigrant medical staff (as well as British)And that's only the English-born ones . Are these kids immigrants? Are their parents? There is a problem in Bradford at least with language use, a couple of generations after immigration.


No, can't commentOf course, there has never been a British-born shoplifter

Just listen to yourself:roll:! Besides, none of this has any bearing on how crowded the island is (which, IMHO, is better considered in the ratio of population to resources and activities)

Well nobody minds immigrant doctors and those with skills that are needed in the UK, it's those that are unskilled and have nothing to offer the UK that are the problem. Yes I would imagine kids that cannot speak English are immigrants or the children of............wouldn't you:roll:?

Of course there are plenty of British born shoplifters and other criminals, which is why we don't need anybody elses. There was a shanty town set up by Eastern Europeans near Marble Arch, the area was filthy with rubbish and human excrement everywhere. Not suprisingly local residents and shop keepers complained strongly about it and they have now been moved on although they keep coming back in small numbers and it is a constant battle for the police and local authorities. Maybe they should send them round to where you live:roll:?

No just listen to yourself..................you are so out of touch with the situation it's untrue:roll:

 

[Oswyntail]

It does depend on how you define an immigrant. In Bradford, we have several generations of "Pakistanis". The oldest were born there - I would class those as "immigrants". The remaining generations often were not, but were born here - are they "immigrants"? And sometimes they have partners who were born in Pakistan - is their family an "immigrant" family? Within this community, the men go out to work, while the women don't or work within the community. Often they do not speak English, or speak it poorly. Their children also do not speak English until they go to school, because there is no need to within their community. But they are second or third generation Yorkshire children, as you can tell from their accent! Are they "immigrants"? Is this an "immigrant" problem, to be addressed, as in Australia, by having strict controls?
As for unskilled people who offer nothing to the country - if they are employed, then they obviously do have something to offer, if only the willingness and ability to do what they are employed for. It is a very odd complaint that people from overseas are taking British jobs, if one thinks about it.

 

[transmanche]

Well nobody minds immigrant doctors and those with skills that are needed in the UK, it's those that are unskilled and have nothing to offer the UK that are the problem.

Well there are plenty of people who are 'unskilled and have nothing to offer the UK' who were born here. Are they a 'problem'? Should we deport them?

Yes I would imagine kids that cannot speak English are immigrants or the children of............wouldn't you:roll:?

As it happens, there are many members of my family who were unable to speak English when starting school. Some of them didn't speak any English until they went to junior school. But then, their first language is Welsh.

I was chatting to an aunt of mine who is a reception class teacher in an agricultural area with a large Polish population. She tells me that as Polish appears to be a very phonetic language, the Polish-born children quickly pick up the phonics system of reading that children are taught these days. Whereas she finds that there are far too many English-born children are not even toilet-trained when arriving at school, or are unable to use cutlery, or whose parents never read them a story.

Still, let's not let any facts come in the way of prejudice.

 

[Antman]

Well there are plenty of people who are 'unskilled and have nothing to offer the UK' who were born here. Are they a 'problem'? Should we deport them?

As it happens, there are many members of my family who were unable to speak English when starting school. Some of them didn't speak any English until they went to junior school. But then, their first language is Welsh.

I was chatting to an aunt of mine who is a reception class teacher in an agricultural area with a large Polish population. She tells me that as Polish appears to be a very phonetic language, the Polish-born children quickly pick up the phonics system of reading that children are taught these days. Whereas she finds that there are far too many English-born children are not even toilet-trained when arriving at school, or are unable to use cutlery, or whose parents never read them a story.

Still, let's not let any facts come in the way of prejudice.

Exactly...................that was my whole point! We have more than enough 'unskilled and nothing to offer' people who were born here so we don't need anymore do we?

I know that many English children who start school are not toilet trained and have very few social skills, I also have a relative who is a teacher........but I'm not sure how that justifies immigration.

What prejudice?

 

[transmanche]

Exactly...................that was my whole point! We have more than enough 'unskilled and nothing to offer' people who were born here so we don't need anymore do we?

So, do you propose deporting them?

I know that many English children who start school are not toilet trained and have very few social skills, I also have a relative who is a teacher........but I'm not sure how that justifies immigration.

I'm merely pointing out that (by your own standards) many immigrants are 'more worthwhile' than people who were born here.

Isn't it better to have hard-working immigrants who pay taxes, ensure their children are educated, etc - than people who were born here that are lazy, live off the dole, can't be bothered to read a story to their kids, etc? (That's a rhetorical question by the way.)

What prejudice?

The prejudice against immigrants that you have demonstrated.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is it not the case that many of the former British Empire residents of the Indian diaspora were thought to be an ideal workforce in the Lancashire cotton industry after the Second World War. This is why areas such as Blackburn and Oldham, just to quote two examples, have large Asian populations.

Is it a fact that countries in the Commonwealth were seen as more deserving than non-Commonwealth countries when British Government policy on this matter was formulated after the Second World War ?

 

[Antman]

So, do you propose deporting them?

I'm merely pointing out that (by your own standards) many immigrants are 'more worthwhile' than people who were born here.

Isn't it better to have hard-working immigrants who pay taxes, ensure their children are educated, etc - than people who were born here that are lazy, live off the dole, can't be bothered to read a story to their kids, etc? (That's a rhetorical question by the way.)

The prejudice against immigrants that you have demonstrated.

You are the one showing prejudice with comments about hard working immigrants and lazy people who were born here. This whole notion about immigrants being hard working stems from the fact they often work for a pittance and accept whatever cr@p is thrown at them, they are driving wages down and pushing the cost of housing up.

If we need doctors then doctors from abroad are more than welcome, if on the other hand we have builders out of work in this country then we don't need more builders from other countries, fairly obvious I would have thought?

 

[Oswyntail]

.... if on the other hand we have builders out of work in this country then we don't need more builders from other countries, fairly obvious I would have thought?

If we had two builders, one asking for rates that an employer could not afford, and one asking for rates he could, which should he choose? What the country seems to need is cheaper labour.

 

[bnm]

And yet, despite the attitudes expressed by people like Steve Ford, still these people come here to make a better life.

Why? Because, apart from the myopic, right leaning, little Englanders, this country is fair, tolerant and welcoming.

Remember, that despite all that, there is no open door immigration policy for those coming from outside the EU. Fair, tolerant and welcoming does not equal soft touch.

 

[Antman]

If we had two builders, one asking for rates that an employer could not afford, and one asking for rates he could, which should he choose? What the country seems to need is cheaper labour.

Cheaper labour? So you'll be happy to take a pay cut?
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And yet, despite the attitudes expressed by people like Steve Ford, still these people come here to make a better life.

Why? Because, apart from the myopic, right leaning, little Englanders, this country is fair, tolerant and welcoming.

Remember, that despite all that, there is no open door immigration policy for those coming from outside the EU. Fair, tolerant and welcoming does not equal soft touch.

What a load of tosh!