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"Rail.Ninja": un-accredited UK ticket retailer?

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skyhigh

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Bletchleyite

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Lots of really bad reviews on Trustpilot:

Ordered train ticket, got bus ticket instead.
I feel scammed.
Because I ordered train tickets, but ended up with bus tickets. ...
Tickets are way overpriced
Tickets are way overpriced. Our tickets would have been $56 if we would have booked direct but Rail Ninja charged us $96 per ticket....
Always check reviews
Always check reviews! Ninja site only shows the 5star reviews!! I didn't look deeper and like the rest of the poor fools here got totally ripped off. Ninja charges double the actual cost and has the gall to show the actual value on their tickets. WOW do I feel abused....
DO NOT BUY YOUR TICKETS WITH THEM
DO NOT BUY YOUR TICKETS WITH THEM
1. What you see on the website is MORE EXPENSIVE than the actual ticket
2. They WILL make mistakes with your ticket and you are on your own dealing with fines and paying for more expensive day off tickets in your destination
3. CUSTOMER SERVICE IS ZERO! You cannot call them, you can try to email them but they will IGNORE YOU!
 
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Adam Williams

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Tickets were issued! Kindly sold to our scammers by LNER for £10.70, barcode pubkey assigned to Vix as you'd expect.
Total mark-up: £9.15

Screenshot from 2022-09-27 14-38-25.png
 

pdeaves

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Purely from information in this thread, I would say that 'rail ninja' is not a scam so much as an over-reaching naïve business. 'They' think they've found a gap in the market but don't fully understand the constraints, limitations and parameters. It looks like a reasonable attempt for someone the other side of the world who's never been here and English is not the first language. I wouldn't want to do business with them, but as I say I don't think it's a scam.
 

Adam Williams

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Purely from information in this thread, I would say that 'rail ninja' is not a scam so much as an over-reaching naïve business. 'They' think they've found a gap in the market but don't fully understand the constraints, limitations and parameters. It looks like a reasonable attempt for someone the other side of the world who's never been here and English is not the first language. I wouldn't want to do business with them, but as I say I don't think it's a scam.
Okay, they delivered a ticket - but charging 87% of the ticket cost in service fees, lying about the real cost of the ticket, presenting incorrect ticket information prior to me completing the purchase, retailing tickets / using rail industry data without a license and putting together lookalike "operator websites" which just happen to transfer the customer to Rail.Ninja for ticket purchasing are all of the hallmarks of terrible/predatory business practices in my book.

It's clearly designed to capture market share from international travellers who don't know better, and that's not "filling a gap in the market", it's just being a dick to people.
 

Haywain

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Tickets were issued! Kindly sold to our scammers by LNER for £10.70, barcode pubkey assigned to Vix as you'd expect.
Total mark-up: £9.15

View attachment 121339
That is most interesting.

Purely from information in this thread, I would say that 'rail ninja' is not a scam so much as an over-reaching naïve business. 'They' think they've found a gap in the market but don't fully understand the constraints, limitations and parameters. It looks like a reasonable attempt for someone the other side of the world who's never been here and English is not the first language. I wouldn't want to do business with them, but as I say I don't think it's a scam.
I suppose that depends how you view overcharging for rail tickets. To me if you are charging £20.00 for a ticket with a face value of £10.70, that looks like a scam (I wonder what is being charged for 2 first class singles to Edinburgh). At the very least it's a serious rip-off. And some people on here complain about what TrainSplit asks for as a 'share of saving'.
 
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Mcr Warrior

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I suppose that depends how you view overcharging for rail tickets. To me if you are charging £20.00 for a ticket with a face value of £10.70, that looks like a scam...
Even Trainline wouldn't charge that much extra, would they? :rolleyes:
 

DelayRepay

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The conditions of travel say:
5. Transfer of Tickets
5.1 A Ticket may be transferred by the person who bought that Ticket to another person, but only if:
5.1.1 the Ticket has not been made out in the passenger's name (which includes where the passenger is identified by a designated Railcard, photocard or other identifying means); and
5.1.2 the journey has not begun (for example, if you intend to transfer a return Ticket you must not have used the outward portion of that return Ticket, or if you intend to transfer a Season Ticket you must not have used it for any journeys already); and
5.1.3 the transfer is not a resale for more than the price paid for the Ticket by the person who first purchased it from a Train Company or a Licensed Retailer


But what are the consequences of breaking this condition?

Does it means the ticket held by @Adam Williams is not valid?

Certainly selling tickets in a way which is not allowed supports the assertion that this company is a scam.

@Adam Williams, are you going to use this ticket? If not, you should claim a refund (less £10 admin fee of course).
 

BenS123

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1664295839485.png
I'm pretty sure GWR don't go to any of these places, and quite sure Eurostar doesn't go to Edinburgh either! :lol:

1664296009374.png
 

Haywain

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Someone might of course use it because a valid barcode has been posted :)

Risky though in case two people do.

It's an Advance anyway, so unless they participate in Book with Confidence... (quick guess: no, they don't?)
Well, they could and probably would if Adam told them he wasn’t using it.
 

Adam Williams

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I have no intention personally of using this ticket. Obviously, as has been mentioned, there is a non-zero risk that the ticket could have been scanned/used by someone else given I've uploaded the whole barcode image here, so I'm not sure I'd recommend anyone consider using it unless they can independently assure themselves of the scan status.

I am not really sure what the BWC situation is like here. Rail.Ninja did advertise it as non-refundable & non-modifiable. Would LNER treat me as the ticket owner if I contacted them and wanted to turn it into an RTV? It all gets a bit murky when there's a ticket transfer going on, let alone when it's done by a unlicensed travel agent.

Part of me is tempted to try and ask Amex to recover the funds via a chargeback, but I'm not sure I have very good grounds for doing this. Perhaps I could argue the ticket was missold because it wasn't for an "InterCity Express" train and because I was shown the interior of a VTWC Pendo during the booking process...
 

Wallsendmag

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I have no intention personally of using this ticket. Obviously, as has been mentioned, there is a non-zero risk that the ticket could have been scanned/used by someone else given I've uploaded the whole barcode image here, so I'm not sure I'd recommend anyone consider using it unless they can independently assure themselves of the scan status.

I am not really sure what the BWC situation is like here. Rail.Ninja did advertise it as non-refundable & non-modifiable. Would LNER treat me as the ticket owner if I contacted them and wanted to turn it into an RTV? It all gets a bit murky when there's a ticket transfer going on, let alone when it's done by a unlicensed travel agent.

Part of me is tempted to try and ask Amex to recover the funds via a chargeback, but I'm not sure I have very good grounds for doing this. Perhaps I could argue the ticket was missold because it wasn't for an "InterCity Express" train and because I was shown the interior of a VTWC Pendo during the booking process...
You’re not the person who booked the ticket so wouldn’t be able to verify the GDPR questions routinely asked by LNER before allowing access to the online account
 

Adam Williams

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You’re not the person who booked the ticket so wouldn’t be able to verify the GDPR questions routinely asked by LNER before allowing access to the online account
Given the NRCoT does explicitly allow transfers at face value (or lower) - despite the fact that that this isn't a bona fide transfer in this instance - it doesn't seem ideal that the nominee then loses the ability to perform a BWC amendment.

Not a dig at LNER specifically, the retailers I work with have exactly the same sort of policies, but I don't think the industry really deals with ticket transfers well (or at all!)
 

XAM2175

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I am not really sure what the BWC situation is like here. Rail.Ninja did advertise it as non-refundable & non-modifiable. Would LNER treat me as the ticket owner if I contacted them and wanted to turn it into an RTV? It all gets a bit murky when there's a ticket transfer going on, let alone when it's done by a unlicensed travel agent.
You’re not the person who booked the ticket so wouldn’t be able to verify the GDPR questions routinely asked by LNER before allowing access to the online account
Given the NRCoT does explicitly allow transfers at face value (or lower) - despite the fact that that this isn't a bona fide transfer in this instance - it doesn't seem ideal that the nominee then loses the ability to perform a BWC amendment.
You need to be able to log into the purchasing account to amend the journey, but for a refund to voucher would you not be able to use LNER's form here?

It's linked directly from this page:

Changing your ticket​

Before 6pm the day before travel​

  • If you know your new date/time of travel, you can change your ticket instantly in your account.
  • If you do not know when you will be travelling or your tickets aren't available yet, fill in our Refund form and you will receive an eVoucher for the full amount of your original journey that is valid for 12 months.
 

Haywain

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To prevent money laundering LNER would only refund the ticket to the account from which it was purchased, whether by vouchers or an actual payment. I could not see LNER condoning refunding to anyone who had not been involved in the initial purchase.
 

danm14

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Part of me is tempted to try and ask Amex to recover the funds via a chargeback, but I'm not sure I have very good grounds for doing this. Perhaps I could argue the ticket was missold because it wasn't for an "InterCity Express" train and because I was shown the interior of a VTWC Pendo during the booking process...
I would suggest approaching it from the angle suggested by DelayRepay in post 75 - that the ticket has been resold in a manner prohibited by the National Rail Conditions of Travel and thus may not be valid.

On a more general point, putting aside what people on this forum may do with the screenshot, what is to prevent RailNinja - who have already proven themselves more than happy to engage in less than acceptable business practices - from selling the same ticket to multiple people and/or refunding the ticket after reselling it, which could result in the innocent passenger being prosecuted?
 

Adam Williams

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On a more general point, putting aside what people on this forum may do with the screenshot, what is to prevent RailNinja - who have already proven themselves more than happy to engage in less than acceptable business practices - from selling the same ticket to multiple people and/or refunding the ticket after reselling it, which could result in the innocent passenger being prosecuted?
A very good point; nothing at all as far as I can see. And pax would have no real recourse. Nor would they necessarily know the ticket had been cancelled (particularly if there is no gateline or they're let through a gateline with a cancelled ticket).

I suspect the only thing preventing this from being very easy to pull off on Rail.Ninja's part is a lack of customers who want to travel at the same time.

Really the only defence against this is to book with an accredited retailer and check RDG's site to verify that you're buying from an accredited online TIS (easier said than done it you're not in the know)
 

Flying Snail

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I would suggest approaching it from the angle suggested by DelayRepay in post 75 - that the ticket has been resold in a manner prohibited by the National Rail Conditions of Travel and thus may not be valid.

On a more general point, putting aside what people on this forum may do with the screenshot, what is to prevent RailNinja - who have already proven themselves more than happy to engage in less than acceptable business practices - from selling the same ticket to multiple people and/or refunding the ticket after reselling it, which could result in the innocent passenger being prosecuted?

Nothing, however it is pretty obvious their business model is ticket scalping, reselling freely available tickets with a hefty markup from a squadron of websites designed to appear as if they are official rail company sites to catch out the unwary and ignorant.

This may not be as profitable as full scale fraud by taking money and not providing anything but it has a distinct advantage of being legal enough that they aren't in any danger of having an early morning visit from folks with riot shields.
 

diffident

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Nothing, however it is pretty obvious their business model is ticket scalping, reselling freely available tickets with a hefty markup from a squadron of websites designed to appear as if they are official rail company sites to catch out the unwary and ignorant.

This may not be as profitable as full scale fraud by taking money and not providing anything but it has a distinct advantage of being legal enough that they aren't in any danger of having an early morning visit from folks with riot shields.

That's exactly what it is. Had they been based in the UK, it would have been a matter for Trading Standards to investigate, however even then I would think that they would be told to highlight that they are a third-party provider.

Whilst what they are doing is not in the spirit of the rules in NRCoT, I struggle to see how it could be court enforced, outside of an extremely strongly worded cease and desist on the grounds of using railway marks without express permission.

I would say that the only real way to stop this would be to have it highlighted to the public, possibly through a media campaign by RDG urging the public to check that their ticket provider is legitimate, and how to confirm this.

I've investigated outfits like this for the media before, however in the aviation industry. It's rife with unlicensed third-party ticket peddlers and they tend to fold pretty quickly when under scrutiny. I might do a little digging on this outfit.
 

alxndr

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On a more general point, putting aside what people on this forum may do with the screenshot, what is to prevent RailNinja - who have already proven themselves more than happy to engage in less than acceptable business practices - from selling the same ticket to multiple people and/or refunding the ticket after reselling it, which could result in the innocent passenger being prosecuted?
If they're going to do that they might as well just fake their own tickets and not bother spending any money on one to resell.
 

mangyiscute

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I reckon the tickets are real and work fine, I think they want repeat customers so they need the customer's experience to go well, and as long as the customer doesn't realise the mark up they paid if the ticket was fine they may well buy again from them.
 
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