Rail Penalty Fare Appeal using ticket receipt

[Traveller123]

I was charged £50.20 that is twice the full single fare for not showing a ticket at the barrier.

I have a ticket receipt but lost my original ticket. Could I use this to appeal and if so, will they be able to trace the type of rail card used to purchase it?

I have a network rail card but a 26-30 one was used for this ticket. This is not displayed on the receipt I would use to appeal but I wonder if they could look up the ticket number and see that in their system.

Thank you

 

[_toommm_]

I was charged £50.20 that is twice the full single fare for not showing a ticket at the barrier.

I have a ticket receipt but lost my original ticket. Could I use this to appeal and if so, will they be able to trace the type of rail card used to purchase it?

I have a network rail card but a 26-30 one was used for this ticket. This is not displayed on the receipt I would use to appeal but I wonder if they could look up the ticket number and see that in their system.

Thank you

I doubt it - a receipt unfortunately is not a valid ticket for travel, and if I remember correctly, there's not really any way to link a spend of x amount to a purchase, and finding out what that purchase was for. It seems like this will be a strict liability case, as you need to keep your tickets safe until you arrive at your destination and make it through the barriers.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I was charged £50.20 that is twice the full single fare for not showing a ticket at the barrier.

I have a ticket receipt but lost my original ticket. Could I use this to appeal and if so, will they be able to trace the type of rail card used to purchase it?

I have a network rail card but a 26-30 one was used for this ticket. This is not displayed on the receipt I would use to appeal but I wonder if they could look up the ticket number and see that in their system.

Thank you

An appeal on that basis will, without doubt, be fruitless - a receipt is in no way a valid ticket to travel. Otherwise every Tom, Dick and Harry would think he's getting two tickets for the price of one!

There are likely to be many better grounds of appeal. Which train company did you travel with, what journey did you make and at what time?

 

[Traveller123]

What is the point of the receipt even...Can they not associate that with the ticket purchased from the machine? All those reference numbers and all.

Anyways, if that were the case - my friend was travelling with me and didn’t lose their ticket. Could they complete this appeal form in their name and send evidence considering they never took any of my details other than the payment amount and date/ time / station of the incident?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

What is the point of the receipt even...Can they not associate that with the ticket purchased from the machine? All those reference numbers and all.

Anyways, if that were the case - my friend was travelling with me and didn’t lose their ticket. Could they complete this appeal form in their name and send evidence considering they never took any of my details other than the payment amount and date/ time / station of the incident?

It's possible they might be able to associate the two together if this were a forensic investigation of a major crime, but for a ticket irregularity there is no chance they will go to that length, at least at this stage. A receipt is there so that you can prove you have incurred the expense of the ticket (e.g. for an expenses claim or business accounts if you're self employed). It's not there for anything else, really.

It would be very, very risky to try and do as you have suggested. There is a very small possibility it might work and that you are able to successfully pull off the fraud. There is a much bigger chance that it will backfire, and that instead of the matter being resolved by way of a small Penalty Fare, you (as well as potentially your friend) are instead lumbered with a prosecution for fare evasion, or even fraud. I would, in the strongest terms possible, advise that this is a ridiculous idea that you should abandon immediately.

As I have said, it is quite well possible that there are valid grounds for appeal. But attempting to commit fraud is not the way to go about it. It would be helpful if you could answer the questions I posed in my previous post.

 

[Traveller123]

I know it’s far from ideal and I won’t do that but it was an idea. My point is - if they can’t be bothered to check their cctv from the morning of the day I purchased and you can clearly see the fare paid was for an off peak day travel card with a rail card discount, then why would they bother verifying details they don’t even have about who was caught without a ticket? The only way they’d know that is if they checked the cctv of us and the inspector, as none of my details were taken.

I travelled Great Northern, London - Royston just before 8pm.

 

[AlterEgo]

I know it’s far from ideal and I won’t do that but it was an idea. My point is - if they can’t be bothered to check their cctv from the morning of the day I purchased and you can clearly see the fare paid was for an off peak day travel card with a rail card discount, then why would they bother verifying details they don’t even have about who was caught without a ticket? The only way they’d know that is if they checked the cctv of us and the inspector, as none of my details were taken.

I travelled Great Northern, London - Royston just before 8pm.

None of this will show you displayed a valid ticket to travel when you were asked. You lost your ticket and showed a receipt. A receipt isn’t a ticket.

Your appeal will be unsuccessful, I’m afraid. This isn’t what you want to hear, but it is the truth unfortunately.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I know it’s far from ideal and I won’t do that but it was an idea. My point is - if they can’t be bothered to check their cctv from the morning of the day I purchased and you can clearly see the fare paid was for an off peak day travel card with a rail card discount, then why would they bother verifying details they don’t even have about who was caught without a ticket? The only way they’d know that is if they checked the cctv of us and the inspector, as none of my details were taken.

I travelled Great Northern, London - Royston just before 8pm.

I understand your frustration, and yes, CCTV may (or may not, depending on the quality and positioning) show you had bought a ticket. But it wouldn't change the fact that you couldn't produce it. For all they know, you could have bought the ticket for someone else, and given it to them later on. That is the quite simple reason why proof of purchase doesn't count as a ticket.

What is the origin and destination station on the Penalty Fare notice you have been issued with?

 

[bb21]

Unfortunately the forum cannot help you if your intention is to commit fraud.

Unfortunately if you lose your ticket then there is no valid basis for appeal as already explained.