SWR have a massive shortage of bus drivers. They’re being very helpful but a difficult day shall we say…
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The kind of service shown as cancelled in the screenshot above would often just be provided by buses. SWR never seem to have an issue sourcing large numbers of accessible double decker buses for rail replacements although I don't know if double deckers are options for this route. The issues do seem to be more with routes that need single decker buses or coaches.Is this mostly about drivers, or is it accessible coaches as was predicted to be a problem?
Is this mostly about drivers, or is it accessible coaches as was predicted to be a problem?
Or change the promise and simply indicate that journeys aren't possible, which is probably more practical.if there is now such a shortage of drivers to run replacement bus services perhaps it’s best to postpone all non-emergency engineering works until this problem is sorted…
Or change the promise and simply indicate that journeys aren't possible, which is probably more practical.
During disruption a few days ago it was explained to passengers that there was a shortage of drivers for replacement coaches, though I don't know if that's the same situation as planned replacement buses.Is this mostly about drivers, or is it accessible coaches as was predicted to be a problem?
What's the point of running a service if it isn't possible to travel?Or change the promise and simply indicate that journeys aren't possible, which is probably more practical.
No, just means the railway isn't a seven day a week service any more on a cyclic basis.What's the point of running a service if it isn't possible to travel?
May as well just tell the public to buy a car...
I think the previous speaker would be entitled to repeat his remark - may as well just tell the public to buy a car, then. It isn't good enough.No, just means the railway isn't a seven day a week service any more.
No, just means the railway isn't a seven day a week service any more on a cyclic basis.
Or come back the next time the trains are running / adjust plans. (To some extent that already happens when there are railway replacement services, else 50 seat coaches wouldn't be able to replace 200 seat trains).I think the previous speaker would be entitled to repeat his remark - may as well just tell the public to buy a car, then. It isn't good enough.
No it doesn't. It makes it a great option when it is running and you accept that one Sunday every 13 weeks it doesn't.Which makes it valueless.
It isn't cyclical, though. Round here - in SWR-land - they've been re-signalling which has involved closures virtually every weekend.No, just means the railway isn't a seven day a week service any more on a cyclic basis.
I know the proprietor of one respectable operator whose business model is schools and rail. They were a very regular sight every weekend over a large area of their local TOC’s network, but since Covid they have been able to cover their school work but drivers seem increasingly reluctant to do rail work at weekends now. They also welcome casuals, pay a decent competitive wage for doing weekend rail, and provide their own maps and instructions so drivers aren’t just thrown out there blind, but even then they now struggle to find people seemingly wanting to do rail work. As a result they have a yard full of varied vehicles ready to go every weekend, but just can’t find people to drive them so can’t take on the amount of work they used to. Now this is just one operator in one part of the UK, but it would be interesting to know if this is repeated elsewhere.Is this mostly about drivers, or is it accessible coaches as was predicted to be a problem?
The Weybridge - Woking - Basingstoke/Guildford stopping services need to be single deck bus/coach due to low bridges at New Haw and (the former) Brookwood. They were also running fast Woking - Guildford - Basing services with (mainly) coaches, so I guess combined this was creating a big requirement for single deck vehicles. I didn’t see much in the way of local bus companies like Stagecoach today (saw a Falcon Buses vehicle), so I guess maybe they’re focusing on trying to cover their own local stuff at the moment? Seemed to be mainly coach operators from west London or the South Coast from what I saw today.The kind of service shown as cancelled in the screenshot above would often just be provided by buses. SWR never seem to have an issue sourcing large numbers of accessible double decker buses for rail replacements although I don't know if double deckers are options for this route. The issues do seem to be more with routes that need single decker buses or coaches.
One Sunday every 13 weeks? Wishful thinking! There are many lines where blocks are far more frequent than that. Unless you're suggesting it's acceptable if the railway simply becomes a 5 day a week operation...No it doesn't. It makes it a great option when it is running and you accept that one Sunday every 13 weeks it doesn't.
Again, wishful thinking. Whilst blocks are generally nailed down many months, if not a year, in advance, the frequency of changes to timetables during Covid means that the industry has essentially accepted moving to an 8 week notice period for "confirmed" engineering work timetables.I would envisage that advance notice of engineering works would be given much earlier that it is at present.
Or change the promise and simply indicate that journeys aren't possible, which is probably more practical.
No, just means the railway isn't a seven day a week service any more on a cyclic basis.
Which makes it valueless.
If the current situation is temporary, that's one thing. People can probably accept occasional days of severe disruption.Or come back the next time the trains are running / adjust plans. (To some extent that already happens when there are railway replacement services, else 50 seat coaches wouldn't be able to replace 200 seat trains).
No it doesn't. It makes it a great option when it is running and you accept that one Sunday every 13 weeks it doesn't.
It's a problem which needs to be sorted. The big question is, why is it so hard to source bus replacements now, compared to the past? Is it a specific thing for this weekend, in relation to the Queen's passing, or something else?
The railway has managed to run a 7-day service on many lines (certainly this kind of route, anyhow) for as long as I can remember and probably longer. Granted services might have been infrequent, and might have been buses rather than trains, but at least they ran.
Or come back the next time the trains are running / adjust plans. (To some extent that already happens when there are railway replacement services, else 50 seat coaches wouldn't be able to replace 200 seat trains).
No it doesn't. It makes it a great option when it is running and you accept that one Sunday every 13 weeks it doesn't.
(I would envisage that advance notice of engineering works would be given much earlier that it is at present.)
Much better than turning up and finding on the day that replacement transport isn't available.
On the other hand, I think it has to be questioned whether closing 35 miles of railway from Basingstoke to Weybridge and Guildford to Woking is a proportionate solution to the need for engineering access, when there is limited availability of replacement transport.
That's fairly straightforward to answer. The entire bus industry, in common with many other industries, is experiencing a serious labour shortage at present. In that situation, operators of local bus services are (sensibly) prioritising their regular scheduled commitments, which is why you don't see the likes of Stagecoach or First covering rail to anything like the extent they did historically. That in turn puts more pressure on the independent sector, but that sector draws heavily on casuals for this kind of work, and my observation is that the pandemic and the requirements for shielding led large numbers of especially older semi-retired casuals to decide it was a good time to hang up their licence, never to return.The big question is, why is it so hard to source bus replacements now, compared to the past?
Thank you for this very thoughtful and well worded post and the points you make. Really interesting to hear this first hand experience of the issues.That's fairly straightforward to answer. The entire bus industry, in common with many other industries, is experiencing a serious labour shortage at present. In that situation, operators of local bus services are (sensibly) prioritising their regular scheduled commitments, which is why you don't see the likes of Stagecoach or First covering rail to anything like the extent they did historically. That in turn puts more pressure on the independent sector, but that sector draws heavily on casuals for this kind of work, and my observation is that the pandemic and the requirements for shielding led large numbers of especially older semi-retired casuals to decide it was a good time to hang up their licence, never to return.
I was driving yesterday on Guildford - Basingstoke fast services, working as a casual for a Southampton independent, and there were coaches from as far afield as Bedfordshire in the other direction working on the same job, such is the extent to which SWR are having to spread their net to get work covered.
While I understand people's natural resistance to rail replacement, the situation yesterday was nowhere near as bad as portrayed. SWR successfully covered a large number of uncovered diagrams towards the end of last week - I was only booked on Friday, and all my runs were still shown as "cancelled" - so in fact many that were shown as cancelled were running. It's an obvious frustration that the railway systems don't seem to be able to respond quickly enough to reflect that. But there were still gaps, but even here the co-ordinators on the ground were using their resources skilfully to mitigate issues as far as possible. I almost had an unexpected adventure to Gatwick at one point!
So although the driver shortage is causing some very serious problems, and I don't envy the planners who have to try to cover all this stuff, the reality is that the service often runs better than might appear looking in from outside, and while I'm certainly not qualified to comment on the merits or demerits of particular closures, I like my railways to be well maintained and safe so some of the more drastic options advised here are hopefully unnecessary!
That's fairly straightforward to answer. The entire bus industry, in common with many other industries, is experiencing a serious labour shortage at present. In that situation, operators of local bus services are (sensibly) prioritising their regular scheduled commitments, which is why you don't see the likes of Stagecoach or First covering rail to anything like the extent they did historically. That in turn puts more pressure on the independent sector, but that sector draws heavily on casuals for this kind of work, and my observation is that the pandemic and the requirements for shielding led large numbers of especially older semi-retired casuals to decide it was a good time to hang up their licence, never to return.
I was driving yesterday on Guildford - Basingstoke fast services, working as a casual for a Southampton independent, and there were coaches from as far afield as Bedfordshire in the other direction working on the same job, such is the extent to which SWR are having to spread their net to get work covered.
While I understand people's natural resistance to rail replacement, the situation yesterday was nowhere near as bad as portrayed. SWR successfully covered a large number of uncovered diagrams towards the end of last week - I was only booked on Friday, and all my runs were still shown as "cancelled" - so in fact many that were shown as cancelled were running. It's an obvious frustration that the railway systems don't seem to be able to respond quickly enough to reflect that. But there were still gaps, but even here the co-ordinators on the ground were using their resources skilfully to mitigate issues as far as possible. I almost had an unexpected adventure to Gatwick at one point!
So although the driver shortage is causing some very serious problems, and I don't envy the planners who have to try to cover all this stuff, the reality is that the service often runs better than might appear looking in from outside, and while I'm certainly not qualified to comment on the merits or demerits of particular closures, I like my railways to be well maintained and safe so some of the more drastic options advised here are hopefully unnecessary!
But when I contacted SWR, and on the ground later, it was clear that gaps in the half hourly stopping service of well in excess of two hours (I simply don’t know how much longer the gap was as other personal arrangements were made in the end) was the passenger experience.
That's fairly straightforward to answer. The entire bus industry, in common with many other industries, is experiencing a serious labour shortage at present. In that situation, operators of local bus services are (sensibly) prioritising their regular scheduled commitments, which is why you don't see the likes of Stagecoach or First covering rail to anything like the extent they did historically. That in turn puts more pressure on the independent sector, but that sector draws heavily on casuals for this kind of work, and my observation is that the pandemic and the requirements for shielding led large numbers of especially older semi-retired casuals to decide it was a good time to hang up their licence, never to return.
I was driving yesterday on Guildford - Basingstoke fast services, working as a casual for a Southampton independent, and there were coaches from as far afield as Bedfordshire in the other direction working on the same job, such is the extent to which SWR are having to spread their net to get work covered.
While I understand people's natural resistance to rail replacement, the situation yesterday was nowhere near as bad as portrayed. SWR successfully covered a large number of uncovered diagrams towards the end of last week - I was only booked on Friday, and all my runs were still shown as "cancelled" - so in fact many that were shown as cancelled were running. It's an obvious frustration that the railway systems don't seem to be able to respond quickly enough to reflect that. But there were still gaps, but even here the co-ordinators on the ground were using their resources skilfully to mitigate issues as far as possible. I almost had an unexpected adventure to Gatwick at one point!
So although the driver shortage is causing some very serious problems, and I don't envy the planners who have to try to cover all this stuff, the reality is that the service often runs better than might appear looking in from outside, and while I'm certainly not qualified to comment on the merits or demerits of particular closures, I like my railways to be well maintained and safe so some of the more drastic options advised here are hopefully unnecessary!
I have worked both planned and emergency rail replacements have had staff pass comment that it has taken me 45-60 mins to “finally” arrive at a station when disruption has occurred. But when you consider what has likely happened is control has assessed the incident, a decision has been made to request buses, that request has been to their agent, their agent has rung around their supplier operators, those operators have in many cases either dropped what they’re doing in the office and/or phoned their casuals/between-schools drivers at home (as you say, bus companies don’t have loads of drivers sat around on the off chance!), any drivers coming in from home have arrived, walk around checks done, and vehicles driven from depot to starting station… Suddenly, when bus companies are quite often able to be on site in around an hour, their response is actually pretty damn good in many cases!But then, some Railway people have no perspective of other public transport, they’ll moan that it took a couple of hours to rustle up a dozen buses when an unexpected event like a bridge strike/ signal failure means that trains are unable to run (as of bus companies should keep large numbers of vehicles/ drivers as hot standbys just in case the more important railway needs them at ultra short notice!)