Rail staff conversation overheard

[contrex]

Today I was changing trains at a certain station. The platform has a shelter with a long bench in it. A group of three or four rail workers came and sat down.

They started chatting about colleagues, including one who was now 'doing revvy'. A good bloke, apparently.

One of them asked asked another 'You don't wear trainers, do you?' This provoked quite a speech.

'No, I don't wear trainers, because the only people who wear trainers are chavs, people on benefits, and dirty illegal asylum seekers who come over here to get a free house and are guaranteed not to be deported, and that's why this country has become a SH*THOLE!'

As he made this little speech, he warmed to his theme, and got louder, and the last word was practically bellowed. Next to me was a young Asian woman with a headscarf, and I believe she tensed and moved to face away from him. I sneaked a look at him and he didn't seem drunk. I wish I could say his companions looked embarrassed, but they didn't really. Isn't behaviour like that misconduct?

 

[busestrains]

Today I was changing trains at a certain station. The platform has a shelter with a long bench in it. A group of three or four rail workers came and sat down. They started chatting about colleagues, including one who was now 'doing revvy'. A good bloke, apparently. Then one of them asked asked another 'You don't wear trainers, do you?' This provoked quite a speech. 'No, I don't wear trainers, because the only people who wear trainers are chavs, people on benefits, and dirty illegal asylum seekers who come over here to get a free house and are guaranteed not to be deported, and that's why this country has become a SH*THOLE!' As he made this little speech, he warmed to his theme, and got louder, and the last word was practically bellowed. Next to me was a young Asian woman with a headscarf, and I believe she tensed and moved to face away from him. I sneaked a look at him and he didn't seem drunk. I wish I could say his companions looked embarrassed, but they didn't really. Isn't behaviour like that misconduct?

If it is a just a private conversation among employees than i see nothing wrong. It is just free speech. I would not call that misconduct. If they were saying it directly to passengers or over the speakers or anything like that then of course that is wrong and unprofessional and they would quite likely get sacked. But if it is just a conversation amongst themselves than i see nothing wrong. I am not sure how that could be considered misconduct. I have overheard plenty of railway staff having conversations with each other saying rather controversial things over the years. It is far more common than you might think.

 

[JamieL]

You should have filmed it and sent it to his TOC. Pretty sure they would consider something like that misconduct if he was in uniform or clearly representing the railway.

 

[Scott1]

Difficult. I'd find it pretty offensive myself, but if they are not in uniform and/or on duty, then it's not really anything to do with their employer.

That said many TOCs take bringing their brand into disrepute seriously, so if your behivour makes it clear who you work for, even off duty, and then you behave or say things the company belive reflect badly on their buisness it will be taken further.

 

[stuu]

If it is a just a private conversation among employees than i see nothing wrong. It is just free speech. I would not call that misconduct. If they were saying it directly to passengers or over the speakers or anything like that then of course that is wrong and unprofessional and they would quite likely get sacked. But if it is just a conversation amongst themselves than i see nothing wrong. I am not sure how that could be considered misconduct. I have overheard plenty of railway staff having conversations with each other saying rather controversial things over the years. It is far more common than you might think.

Good luck telling that to an employment tribunal. If in uniform, you are a representative of the company, people can and do get fired for that sort of thing.

 

[Scott1]

Good luck telling that to an employment tribunal. If in uniform, you are a representative of the company, people can and do get fired for that sort of thing.

Very much so, even if your off duty in your own outfit, if you are clearly identifiable as an employee, for example because you have said it earlier on in a conversation, then you'd have a hard time claiming unfair dismissal.

 

[contrex]

It did occur to me that if this bloke worked 'on the revvy' he might treat people less favourably if they wore trainers, the more so if they seemed to be on benefits, weren't 'white English', or were 'chavs' in his view. I've been retired for a year now, but where I worked, if someone said what he did in the workplace after audibly identifying themselves as an employee, and it was reported, it could easily go as far as gross misconduct.

 

[D365]

Good luck telling that to an employment tribunal. If in uniform, you are a representative of the company, people can and do get fired for that sort of thing.

Correct. By-and-large it's written into our contracts and code-of-conduct training.

 

[exbrel]

its just how the company look at cases, where i used to work, one of the lads i knew caught his wife with another man, so had a good enough try at him for being arrested and convicted of attempted murder, When he was released a number of years later he got his old job back... but anyone caught stealing was sacked even if it was outside of the railway. Word was that someone in managements job was to scan local papers for cases of stealing, by railway personnel...

 

[skyhigh]

If it is a just a private conversation among employees than i see nothing wrong. It is just free speech. I would not call that misconduct. If they were saying it directly to passengers or over the speakers or anything like that then of course that is wrong and unprofessional and they would quite likely get sacked. But if it is just a conversation amongst themselves than i see nothing wrong. I am not sure how that could be considered misconduct. I have overheard plenty of railway staff having conversations with each other saying rather controversial things over the years. It is far more common than you might think.

100% no. If you are in public and in uniform, you absolutely can and should be held to account for what you say. Particularly if you are saying something controversial loud enough that passengers who might be offended can hear it!

If you wouldn't say something over the PA, don't say it while in public or in uniform. Simple as that.

 

[Tetchytyke]

No such thing as free speech whilst you’re in uniform. If you wouldn’t stand on stage and say it, you don’t say it.

 

[jon0844]

No such thing as free speech whilst you’re in uniform. If you wouldn’t stand on stage and say it, you don’t say it.

Indeed. Too many people don't know what freedom of speech even means. It's purely about your right to say something without being arrested by the state.

So, in that regard, yes someone could say such things and not be thrown in jail, but they could easily be sacked.

 

[contrex]

I told the tale of this to my wife when I got home, and she grinned and said 'Ah, the shoe thing! I had an uncle who was a mad fascist, and with him it was suede shoes. He was sure that any man who wore them was a homosexual, or a communist, or quite likely both, and somehow that led to the downfall of the country, and the reason we lost the Empire. He used to get quite worked up about it, and go red in the face'.

 

[Bald Rick]

For me, the test is

“would you hear British Airways staff talking like that in front of their passengers”

 

[357]

It is just free speech

It was at this point that I knew you had written this before even checking the username.

 

[Dieseldriver]

For me, the test is

“would you hear British Airways staff talking like that in front of their passengers”

I don’t really get the relevance of that comment.
I’m railway staff, I personally am not a fan of ‘trial by social media’ or of people putting phones in staffs (of any industry) faces after goading them in an attempt to capture them behaving in an unprofessional manner.
If the facts of the original poster’s version of events are true, anyone would be hard pressed to defend the actions of the staff involved. This is not relevant to them being railstaff (other than this being a rail forum) and everything to do with this being wholly unacceptable from any employee in any line of work in any industry.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is inappropriate when in uniform and on company premises. I'd not report it as it's not really any of my business, but if they carry on like that there's a not insigificant chance they'll end up sacked.

 

[kristiang85]

Sorry if a dim question, but what does "on the revvy" mean?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry if a dim question, but what does "on the revvy" mean?

I read it as "doing revenue", i.e. checking tickets and dealing with people who haven't paid.

 

[Efini92]

I read it as "doing revenue", i.e. checking tickets and dealing with people who haven't paid.

Could it be a chav on a scooter?

 

[AlterEgo]

For me, the test is

“would you hear British Airways staff talking like that in front of their passengers”

The things I’ve heard on BA flights!

 

[the sniper]

Today I was changing trains at a certain station. The platform has a shelter with a long bench in it. A group of three or four rail workers came and sat down. They started chatting about colleagues, including one who was now 'doing revvy'. A good bloke, apparently. Then one of them asked asked another 'You don't wear trainers, do you?' This provoked quite a speech. 'No, I don't wear trainers, because the only people who wear trainers are chavs, people on benefits, and dirty illegal asylum seekers who come over here to get a free house and are guaranteed not to be deported, and that's why this country has become a SH*THOLE!' As he made this little speech, he warmed to his theme, and got louder, and the last word was practically bellowed. Next to me was a young Asian woman with a headscarf, and I believe she tensed and moved to face away from him. I sneaked a look at him and he didn't seem drunk. I wish I could say his companions looked embarrassed, but they didn't really. Isn't behaviour like that misconduct?

I can imagine the conversation, though it does sound intentionally bombastic, a bit of a performance piece. Not an act to perform in public though!

 

[GusB]

Today I was changing trains at a certain station. The platform has a shelter with a long bench in it. A group of three or four rail workers came and sat down. They started chatting about colleagues, including one who was now 'doing revvy'. A good bloke, apparently. Then one of them asked asked another 'You don't wear trainers, do you?' This provoked quite a speech. 'No, I don't wear trainers, because the only people who wear trainers are chavs, people on benefits, and dirty illegal asylum seekers who come over here to get a free house and are guaranteed not to be deported, and that's why this country has become a SH*THOLE!' As he made this little speech, he warmed to his theme, and got louder, and the last word was practically bellowed. Next to me was a young Asian woman with a headscarf, and I believe she tensed and moved to face away from him. I sneaked a look at him and he didn't seem drunk. I wish I could say his companions looked embarrassed, but they didn't really. Isn't behaviour like that misconduct?

If they were clearly identifiable as railway workers, on railway premises and making comments like that, there's not really any excuse. If it was a private conversation then fair enough (however distasteful the subject), but it wasn't private; it was in a public space where they could be, and were, overheard. As someone who, until fairly recently was claiming benefits for legitimate reasons, I'd have taken issue with what was being said.

Is the behaviour misconduct? Absolutely. Obviously there would have to be disciplinary hearings, but to me this seems like a case of bringing your employer into disrepute. Every employer I've ever worked for has listed this as Gross Misconduct in their terms and conditions, with Summary Dismissal being a likely result.

 

[AlterEgo]

If it is a just a private conversation among employees than i see nothing wrong. It is just free speech. I would not call that misconduct. If they were saying it directly to passengers or over the speakers or anything like that then of course that is wrong and unprofessional and they would quite likely get sacked. But if it is just a conversation amongst themselves than i see nothing wrong. I am not sure how that could be considered misconduct. I have overheard plenty of railway staff having conversations with each other saying rather controversial things over the years. It is far more common than you might think.

You’ve no idea what free speech is. You aren’t free in any democratic country to make racist statements in your staff uniform at your place of work.

In the UK, if customers hear, and complain, it is at the very least misconduct and potentially gross misconduct depending on the content of what was said. If one of the staff members overheard, or were even one of the direct parties to the conversation, and were offended, they’d be able to complain to their manager.

That’s an unacceptable thing to say while at work.

 

[birchesgreen]

I wear trainers and do not fall into any of his categories. That would blow his little racist mind.

 

[PsychoMouse]

Indeed. Too many people don't know what freedom of speech even means. It's purely about your right to say something without being arrested by the state.

So, in that regard, yes someone could say such things and not be thrown in jail, but they could easily be sacked.

Freedom of speech does not equal freedom from consequences.

 

[DarloRich]

Isn't behaviour like that misconduct?

Yes - but there is no actionable evidence. This is a "your word against his" situation. You could make a complaint but I am sure it would be denied by anyone involved.

Freedom of speech does not equal freedom from consequences.

Correct - but consequences stem from evidence.

I am not sure how that could be considered misconduct.

Really? Really? In uniform, in public and heard by a customer. Any corroborating evidence and I suspect the person involved would be for the high jump.

 

[jon0844]

These days anyone can record audio or video with ease. I can audio record on my smart watch, and nobody would have a clue.

Nobody in uniform, in a work environment, should be saying anything they didn't feel they could justify if asked to explain - with evidence presented to them.

 

[Haywain]

Yes - but there is no actionable evidence. This is a "your word against his" situation. You could make a complaint but I am sure it would be denied by anyone involved

It might not lead to a disciplinary hearing but an investigation with some awkward questions might at least cause the miscreant to consider and modify their behaviour in the future.

 

[DarloRich]

It might not lead to a disciplinary hearing but an investigation with some awkward questions might at least cause the miscreant to consider and modify their behaviour in the future.

you have a greater faith in human nature than I do!