Rail strikes discussion

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not talking about the legalities of expecting privacy. More about the morality of the poster on here outing him on a forum that management read. As you point out, his idiotic ramblings could lead to dismissal. If someone hears him first hand then I would have little sympathy for him. But why would anyone want to post about it on a public forum and potentially cause him issues. All the op had to do was leave the time of the train out.

Ah, to be fair I hadn't even noticed that the time had been included. When I post about staff I don't generally identify the train.

 

[Bluejays]

Can you DM me what you mean by this? Don’t put it here.

Give me 5 minutes to work out the messaging system.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Looks like there is the basis for a negotiated settlement, albeit too late to stop this week's strikes.

There will probably be a bit of haggling over the detail, but ultimately both sides will have to compromise to get a deal, whatever they might be saying publicly at the moment.

Rail bosses willing to offer 5pc pay rise, with conditions, to avert strike

Sources close to the talks say Network Rail wants RMT to agree to modernise and give up so-called Spanish practices

www.telegraph.co.uk

To summarise - the railway costs too much and needs to modernise and achieve efficiency savings.

Network Rail's solution - get the union to agree to efficiency savings and then give it all to the employees as a pay rise.

End result - the railway has modernised but still costs exactly the same and these potential efficiency savings no longer exist.

Is that some kind of joke?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You literally said:

Exactly, it was pathetic and embarrassing. To think he actually gave his precise salary. And moaned that he couldn’t put food on the table. It was something like £40,000 which isn’t millions but will hardly put you in poverty when you think cabin crew start on roughly £15,000 and survive.

So why did you say that then?????? That little swipe wasn’t needed if what you’re saying is true.

I think you’re deliberately looking for reasons to pick fault with my post here. It was more because there could have been many others on the train earning far less who may have been offended or upset by it.

 

[Gems]

I'm not talking about the legalities of expecting privacy. More about the morality of the poster on here outing him on a forum that management read. As you point out, his idiotic ramblings could lead to dismissal. If someone hears him first hand then I would have little sympathy for him. But why would anyone want to post about it on a public forum and potentially cause him issues. All the op had to do was leave the time of the train out.

With respect. I think you are over indulging on the impact of this forum. I rather doubt the MD of whatever rail sits at his desk reading these posts.
I think you'll find twitter is a better platform for the antics of a nitwit to be outed on.

 

[320320]

Sunday working a big one apparently. No pay deal or dispute will be resolved by the attempted inclusion of Sunday into the working week. Not going to happen.

What a waste of time. If they think that they’d get Sundays inside for 5% then this is going to be a long negotiation. That offer would be laughed out the room in normal times never mind when inflations heading for 10-11%

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

With respect. I think you are over indulging on the impact of this forum. I rather doubt the MD of whatever rail sits at his desk reading these posts.
I think you'll find twitter is a better platform for the antics of a nitwit to be outed on.

I saw someone filming it, and the two SWR seniors looked rather shocked too. If any problem is going to come to him it’ll be through those.

 

[Goldfish62]

Sunday working a big one apparently. No pay deal or dispute will be resolved by the attempted inclusion of Sunday into the working week. Not going to happen.

Except at those TOCs where Sunday is part of the normal week.

 

[KM1991]

Except at those TOCs where Sunday is part of the normal week.

Out of curiosity, what TOCs include Sunday as part of the working week? Mine doesn’t.

Is that for all job roles? Or is it only for new contract gateline staff types? That’s the only example I can think of.

 

[Need2]

I can’t remember the exact figure. My point isn’t the amount it was the fact he shouldn’t be divulging his salary on the tannoy in order to slag off his bosses or whoever

If that’s the way you meant it then fair enough.
I know another member on here feels the same as me but that is the problem with ‘writing’, you see it one way and someone else sees it as another!
However, I totally agree with your last part regarding the PA message.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Well so far nothing has been tabled, DfT or TOCs would be very quick to say if they put something out there that the RMT refused.

The only concrete offer was the NR one the other day of 2% plus 2x 0.5% salary bonus for milestone agreements towards modernisation program

But that's my point, 'modernisation' means what exactly? Listen to RMT and modernisation means a safety nightmare that tracks aren't going to be maintained - unlikely, listen to NR and tracks will be a higher standard because of automation, what really is the proposal here

 

[Bluejays]

With respect. I think you are over indulging on the impact of this forum. I rather doubt the MD of whatever rail sits at his desk reading these posts.
I think you'll find twitter is a better platform for the antics of a nitwit to be outed on.

Wouldn't surprise me if a fair few interested parties are looking at this forum at present.
I also should have followed my own advice and sent the op a dm rather than slating him on the board.

 

[Tio Terry]

I've not read through the 70 plus pages of comments so what I'm about to say may already have been mentioned, if it has, I apologise in advance.

My understanding is that Network Rail's proposals include what is quite a substantial change to the organisational structure of the organisation resulting in significant staff reductions along with skill changes. According to the requirements of the Railway and Other Guided Transport Systems (Safety) regulations such change must be assessed in accordance with the Safety Management System (SMS).

Does anyone actually know if this has taken place? One of the first steps for such an assessment is a Hazard Identification Workshop (HAZID), this should be undertaken with all stakeholders - which I would assume would include staff representatives - and the output would be a list of hazards and risks identified. Does anyone know if this has happened yet? Has the Hazard and Risk list been made available to all stakeholders? Have mitigitations been identified for all entries?

If this has not happened, is this something the RMT should be getting interested in and, if the list has not been released, should the RMT ask for it as a Freedom Of Information Request?

 

[DarloRich]

BBC, quoting RMT, reporting that last minute talks to avert the strikes have failed

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Thank you. I do find NR staff cuts (and, aiui, a reduction of annual hours of maintenance) very worrying.

RE pensions, this page https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-statement/ says "savage the Railway Pension Scheme and the TFL scheme, cutting benefits, making staff work longer, and poorer in retirement, while paying increased contributions". I'm wondering what the truth is!

The government want ALL plebs people to work longer, retire later, pay more tax/NI and more towards pension. It's not just a railway thing

 

[HST274]

BBC, quoting RMT, reporting that last minute talks to avert the strikes have failed

No surprise imo. We just have to hope it doesn't go on after this set of strikes.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I'm considering my options. It's no skin off my nose. It's the company that's wasted the best part of quarter of a million training me. Looking into becoming a driver if there's a pathway for signallers to make that move...

I note you haven't answered my previous questions...

So you have started an excellent career and moaning already about the salary.

 

[DarloRich]

BBC now quoting (on the live feed) Shapps:

BBC:
Strikes 'completely unnecessary' - Shapps
This week's rail strikes are "completely unnecessary", says the transport secretary.

Grant Shapps says the industrial action has been called “on the false pretence that there wasn’t going to be a pay rise, even though there was always going to be a pay rise”.

Shapps tells the BBC, ahead of his statement in the Commons shortly, that members of the RMT union - which represents the striking rail staff - have been “led up a garden path”.

He argues “only the employers have the ability to be able to negotiate what are complex and detailed areas of reform” and only the employer can “give a pay rise in return for modernising the railway”.

When asked if the government would step in, Shapps says there is “no way a minister could step into that discussion and be of any help”, arguing they would actually be a hindrance.

There are few statements there I would take issue with. We all know Johnson and his gang are the organ grinders and I also doubt there was going to be an 11% pay rise

 

[Adrian1980uk]

BBC now quoting Shapps:


There are few statements there I would take issue with. We all know Johnson and his gang are the organ grinders and I also doubt there was going to be an 11% pay rise

The strike will be extremely long if they're expecting an 11% pay rise..

 

[KM1991]

BBC now quoting Shapps:


There are few statements there I would take issue with. We all know Johnson and his gang are the organ grinders and I also doubt there as going to be an 11% pay rise

The problem is Schapps said railway workers would get a pay rise higher than 2% the more willing they are to agree to modernisation and the change of terms and conditions (so the more the union agrees to change, the higher the figure would be). He was then asked whether that meant railway workers would get the media touted pay raise of 7% that the RMT is after, he then said they will not get anywhere near that figure...

So he wants an extension to the numbers of hours in the working week, the inclusion of Sunday working, pension reforms and future guaranteed job losses for a pay rise of about 4% I’m guessing? You’ve got two hopes...

 

[DarloRich]

The strike will be extremely long if they're expecting an 11% pay rise..

you missed the smiley then.........

( point being inflation is running at c10-12% therefore a pay settlement less than that is a real terms pay cut)

 

[KendalR]

The crux of the matter is the TOC's essentially nationalised on government contracts and Network Rail - an arms length body when it suits HMG aren't allowed to offer anything over 2% or 3% if they can fund the extra 1%. Even if they can fund more it won't be approved by the Treasury.

The RMT won't accept anything less than 5% with no compulsory redundancies in my opinion.

So stalemate.

The tory government are absolutely loving this. A huge distraction from the cost of living crisis and the rest of their shenanigans.

 

[DarloRich]

The tory government are absolutely loving this. A huge distraction from the cost of living crisis and the rest of their shenanigans.

Exactly my thoughts. A huge distraction that can be used to create a "wedge" issue and fire up thier base.

 

[2021_Signaller]

I'm guessing you haven't been in the job/grade for long. At least your earning potential is higher if you manage to move up the career ladder

Why do you think the £29k salary for the risks that you manage are low? If you are working in a box that handles 1tph each way within a relatively short AB system, then surely, the risks are less than for somebody working in a panel box that controls 100s of miles?

Haha, I decided to take your advice and leave and now you're moaning about that. You've convinced me I'm underappreciated, underpaid and should do something about it. Onwards and upwards

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

To summarise - the railway costs too much and needs to modernise and achieve efficiency savings.
Network Rail's solution - get the union to agree to efficiency savings and then give it all to the employees as a pay rise.
End result - the railway has modernised but still costs exactly the same and these potential efficiency savings no longer exist.
Is that some kind of joke?

The Telegraph piece is confused about who runs what on the railways.
Network Rail has nothing to do with ticket office closures or traincrew policies, that's for the TOC side.

 

[Gems]

Wouldn't surprise me if a fair few interested parties are looking at this forum at present.
I also should have followed my own advice and sent the op a dm rather than slating him on the board.

Don't indulge yourself. There is nothing to see here. There should be a separate thread for those of us who actually work on the railway.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I think the first round of strikes will go ahead, but that talks will then take place with a view to averting future strikes.

My guess is that the final pay offer which is accepted by the union will be around 5%.

Whilst Mick Lynch says he is prepared to carry on calling strikes for months on end, he has to consider the amount of money his members will lose each time they go on strike, how that will affect them during the cost of living crisis, and whether there is a realistic prospect of an increased pay offer if there are more strikes.

Rumour is they already offered but with no guarantees of compulsory redundancies so that got thrown out

 

[320320]

I'm considering my options. It's no skin off my nose. It's the company that's wasted the best part of quarter of a million training me. Looking into becoming a driver if there's a pathway for signallers to make that move...

You should go for it, you couldn’t be any worse than numerous police officers that have been recruited recently

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Do I set my alarm for 4am or not. A tough question. The closer we get and the more lies the government come out with the more I swing towards a long lie in.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jun 2022 ==

Some of the posts on here have pushed me closer to striking. Some views have convinced me it's a war out there.

Remember Train Crew are the enemy on here and The Right Wing Press and the Tory Gov. its been shown so many times....I came back on here hoping things had gone a bit more central..sadly I was wrong.

 

[Watershed]

So to reach £500m you need 4,000 "small" ticket-office shift equivalents.

Given that there are 980 ticket offices in England, at least according to the tabloids reporting this story, that gets you to ~£118m even if they are all manned for a single shift and are all small.

I don't think £500m is out of the question at all, as some at least will be manned two shifts at least.

The fixed costs of running a ticket office (rent, electricity, computer systems, maintenance) don't increase much if it's staffed for longer, plus those were the costs for running an independent ticket office - in-house ticket offices will cost less as they will get some things (e.g. rent) at below market rate.

Ticket office staff are generally on £25k or thereabouts. Add on employer's NI and pension contributions and you have perhaps a cost of at most £35k per FTE. So staffing a ticket office for two shifts might only cost £155k a year.

So yes, into the hundreds of millions per year, perhaps. £500m though? I doubt it.

BBC now quoting Shapps:


There are few statements there I would take issue with. We all know Johnson and his gang are the organ grinders and I also doubt there was going to be an 11% pay rise

The suggestion "there was always going to be a payrise" is rather rich given that up until the strikes were announced, the TOCs' and NR's position was "the government isn't letting us talk about a payrise; we can't afford one". Still, I expect nothing less from an odious character like him.