• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

RailUK gets a mention in the Daily Mail

Status
Not open for further replies.

Buzby

Member
Joined
14 Apr 2023
Messages
662
Location
Glasgow, Scotland
I think the gateline staff I spoke to said the gates were set up specifically to check Senior railcards but I'm not 100% sure.
Interesting that this is at the gateline - my experience is that my SR is rarely asked for on train OR at the gateline (unless a row of RPIs are there as well) like at Stafford. The gate mechanism doesn’t care it just lets someone through. On train, perhaps barely 5% of my journeys on-train staff ask for it as no doubt I look decrepit enough to have one. I gather @yorkie has a theory about this……
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

robbeech

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2015
Messages
4,686
How do TLI personnel identify themselves?
I would be very wary of giving my details to anyone who was not obviously a railway employee or BTP if challenged. What's to stop any random person deciding to "check" everyone's tickets, and then demanding money on some pretext?
The interaction on the railway is usually done by a guard, or an operator's revenue protection team. The details of the encounter are then forwarded to TIL who deal with it. The passenger doesn't appear to deal with TIL at the initial incident.
 

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
7,678
The interaction on the railway is usually done by a guard, or an operator's revenue protection team. The details of the encounter are then forwarded to TIL who deal with it. The passenger doesn't appear to deal with TIL at the initial incident.
I think TfW actually use TIL contractors as agency RPIs, unless I've misread things.
 

robbeech

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2015
Messages
4,686
I think TfW actually use TIL contractors as agency RPIs, unless I've misread things.
I see, either way i believe these should carry the necessary ID, though i understand concerns, one part of that article claims "undercover".
 

Egg Centric

Member
Joined
6 Oct 2018
Messages
932
Location
Land of the Prince Bishops
Some of the eyewitness reports in this forum have claimed the TIL lot identify themselves as "conducting a survey"... then pounce on people with (in TIL's view) inadequate tickets, finally revealing who they truly are.

This seems unsporting to say the least and we all know the kind of people who would be attracted to a job like that.
 

HantsExile

Member
Joined
22 Jun 2018
Messages
61
Some of the eyewitness reports in this forum have claimed the TIL lot identify themselves as "conducting a survey"... then pounce on people with (in TIL's view) inadequate tickets, finally revealing who they truly are.

This seems unsporting to say the least and we all know the kind of people who would be attracted to a job like that.
These reports that TIL staff identify themselves as "conducting a survey" make an interesting connection with my report of local gatelines rejecting Senior Railcard tickets until staff have checked the railcard: one member of SWR staff gave as the explanation for this that SWR were "conducting a survey" - is this the new name for revenue protection?
 

flythetube

Member
Joined
17 Mar 2021
Messages
92
Location
Tooting
Some of the eyewitness reports in this forum have claimed the TIL lot identify themselves as "conducting a survey"... then pounce on people with (in TIL's view) inadequate tickets, finally revealing who they truly are.

This seems unsporting to say the least and we all know the kind of people who would be attracted to a job like that.
TIL in addition to providing Revenue Protection Staff for Transport for Wales, do also undertake some Ticketless Travel Surveys on behalf of some TOC’s on behalf of the Department for Transport.

They will or should be dressed smartly with TOC and or TIL Lanyards and photo ID plus will be carrying a tablet to record data / scan e-tickets and where relevant will be also in possession of a Transport for London TOC specific Revenue Inspection Device (yellow case) to check Oysters / Contactless and Smartcards.

On Ticketless Travel Survey Duties then this IS an actual Survey and staff undertaking the Surveys are not there to issue penalty fares or write ticket irregularities reports although anything that can be resolved with the guards / Train Managers intervention will be passed to them to deal with.

The Survey is purely that and to gain a picture of what is currently happening on the TOC’s network that is being surveyed.

Survey Staff may assist in Customer Service advising customers on board of options during delays and whether connections will be made etc.

On a late running late 10 car (5+5) Penzance service not so long ago, with the Train Manager in one portion and myself in the other I was able to assist him by going through my 5 cars to ascertain if anyone would be needing onward Taxi connections of which 2 customers required St Erth to St Ives which was thus able to be communicated to the Train Manager and arranged for them.

Some TIL staff do have relevant railway experience, the negative appears to be relating to up north contractors and their modus operandi.

Surveying staff will always announce what they are doing upon entering the carriage.

TIL staff undertaking RPI work for TFW will be wearing TIL red & white stripy ties and wearing TIL in partnership with TFW Red Hi-Vis Tabards.

Chiltern RPI’s as far as I am aware are directly employed by Chiltern - TIL only gets involved after reports from these Chiltern Staff get passed over to them for processing.

There was a report linked to in the Daily Mail online where Transport for London denied that TIL was involved in its network, and whilst that may be true in regards to Revenue Protection Activities, TIL provide staff to Tfl in connection with London Underground Engineering Works Closures and will be seen at Station Entrances and at Bus Stops directing customers to the Rail Replacement Bus Services.
 

greyman42

Established Member
Joined
14 Aug 2017
Messages
5,026
My thoughts exactly, I would rather they just keep banging on about their usual garbage and leave us well alone
If not the Daily Mail, then which paper do you think my cover the topic?
 

RPI

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2010
Messages
2,783
These reports that TIL staff identify themselves as "conducting a survey" make an interesting connection with my report of local gatelines rejecting Senior Railcard tickets until staff have checked the railcard: one member of SWR staff gave as the explanation for this that SWR were "conducting a survey" - is this the new name for revenue protection?
TIL are also contracted by the DfT to do ticket less travel surveys, though when on GWR they are there to just do that, I've worked with one or two of them where I've boarded a train and I've left them to check and hand to me anything that could need further investigation.
 

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
7,678
TIL in addition to providing Revenue Protection Staff for Transport for Wales, do also undertake some Ticketless Travel Surveys on behalf of some TOC’s on behalf of the Department for Transport.

They will or should be dressed smartly with TOC and or TIL Lanyards and photo ID plus will be carrying a tablet to record data / scan e-tickets and where relevant will be also in possession of a Transport for London TOC specific Revenue Inspection Device (yellow case) to check Oysters / Contactless and Smartcards.

On Ticketless Travel Survey Duties then this IS an actual Survey and staff undertaking the Surveys are not there to issue penalty fares or write ticket irregularities reports although anything that can be resolved with the guards / Train Managers intervention will be passed to them to deal with.

The Survey is purely that and to gain a picture of what is currently happening on the TOC’s network that is being surveyed.

Survey Staff may assist in Customer Service advising customers on board of options during delays and whether connections will be made etc.

On a late running late 10 car (5+5) Penzance service not so long ago, with the Train Manager in one portion and myself in the other I was able to assist him by going through my 5 cars to ascertain if anyone would be needing onward Taxi connections of which 2 customers required St Erth to St Ives which was thus able to be communicated to the Train Manager and arranged for them.

Some TIL staff do have relevant railway experience, the negative appears to be relating to up north contractors and their modus operandi.

Surveying staff will always announce what they are doing upon entering the carriage.

TIL staff undertaking RPI work for TFW will be wearing TIL red & white stripy ties and wearing TIL in partnership with TFW Red Hi-Vis Tabards.

Chiltern RPI’s as far as I am aware are directly employed by Chiltern - TIL only gets involved after reports from these Chiltern Staff get passed over to them for processing.

There was a report linked to in the Daily Mail online where Transport for London denied that TIL was involved in its network, and whilst that may be true in regards to Revenue Protection Activities, TIL provide staff to Tfl in connection with London Underground Engineering Works Closures and will be seen at Station Entrances and at Bus Stops directing customers to the Rail Replacement Bus Services.
I have no issue with survey staff surveying - it's been happening as long as I've been a guard and I always make announcements to the effect they're legitimate and thanking customers for their cooperation.

Our local ones tend to be elderly rail enthusiasts who get a bit of pocket money for indulging in their hobby whilst collecting data which is great.

One thing I do make a point of doing is telling them to stay well away from anything that could be seen to be getting involved in revenue protection and that includes telling me about ticket irregularities.

They should also avoid doing anything that implies they're an agent of the train operator with the authority to give any binding advice.

This is borne from an unpleasant experience I once had with a fare evader whereby the survey people decided to go and fetch me from the next coach where I was checking tickets to "deal with the matter".

The fare evader then decided the survey people were "grasses" and I had to go to some effort to then prevent 2 elderly blokes from being walloped which I really didn't need.

The same has happened when a "Police Volunteer" handing out leaflets for BTP decided to try and challenge someone doing something naughty and again I had to extricate them from the mess they'd gotten themselves into whilst they watched on terrified.

Well meaning - yes. Helpful - no.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
68,604
Location
Yorkshire
Not really. It's just a disguised advert for a firm of solicitors.
I look forward to the other media outlets doing a better job on this story then.

(I am not a fan of Daily Mail generally, but on this occasion I don't see anyone doing a better job; unless I've missed something?)

If any journalist wants some help with this, they can use the 'Contact Us' form at the bottom of any page ;)
 

Kenny G

Member
Joined
20 Mar 2014
Messages
58
Amazing what passes as journalism these days. Reading this forum, TiL's website and Malins' LinkedIn entry and bingo, an article
It's the fail. Never passed as journalism in its life. Made a lot of money for it's owners though.
 

PyrahnaRanger

Member
Joined
16 Aug 2022
Messages
91
Location
Lancashire
These reports that TIL staff identify themselves as "conducting a survey" make an interesting connection with my report of local gatelines rejecting Senior Railcard tickets until staff have checked the railcard: one member of SWR staff gave as the explanation for this that SWR were "conducting a survey" - is this the new name for revenue protection?
If they are “conducting a survey”, there’s an implication that taking part is voluntary and you don’t need to take part - so is there any legal/by-law requirement to show someone doing a “survey” your ticket?

I seem to remember Northern did a “ticket survey” 12 months or so ago on Buckshaw - Piccadilly trains. The people doing it looked to be University age, but did have Northern hi-vis vests over their normal clothes. At the time, it was very much described as a “survey to see how people travel” with an implication it was as part of a uni project, which seemed strange when all they were interested in was people’s tickets - maybe the fog lifts slightly!
 

Mag_seven

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
1 Sep 2014
Messages
10,124
Location
here to eternity
I think we are done here. Discussion about Transport Investigations Ltd can be found here:

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top