Railway or Fairground Ride - Reopening our heritage railways

[Llanigraham]

Whilst there are a number of good points made, some railways do try to keep things like workshop visits going. The GCR has had members of the Boscastle team giving guided tours once a month (Though not at present). These are free, but many do donate.
The points system for donations would probably be too expensive to administer but possibly a "Loyalty card" system on ticket sales, similar to cafes etc might work?

In "normal" times every trip on the Corris Railway gets a look in the engine shed and a walk through the carriage shed, where they see the work being undertaken.

 

[mpthomson]

During the past few days, I have received notifications from heritage railways that I support of their reopening plans. I can’t say any fill me with any great enthusiasm due to the way in which their operations are being restarted. There also appears to be much commonality in arrangements which makes one wonder whether they are following a set script.

My main concerns are:

All seen so far are offering “joy ride” services – just there and back usually on consecutive trains.

Some are only operating over part of their route.

Journey’s must start and finish at one station.

This stops people from using lines to access walks, visit pubs along the route etc. Not everyone that visits a heritage line just wants to sit on the train and do a round trip – the train is often part of a bigger day out for many families.

It is no longer possible to book a single journey – some people walk one way and return by train.

(Basically, they have given up any pretence at a real transport function and one wonders if in becoming basically a fairground ride there may be VAT implication. My point is that throughout the lockdown it has been possible to turn up at a network rail station and travel without all this regulation. Why are heritage lines not working to the same rules as their network counterparts?)

Most lines want journeys pre-booked – often on-line. Though one line I have come across has stated there is no need to prebook – which I was pleased to see. Pre-booking this makes things difficult for those who are not online or who prefer not to make transactions online. How can one line state there is no need to pre-book when others do?

(This bothers me because I imagine many families make day trip decisions whether on holiday or venturing out from home probably on the spare of the moment – might be the weather forecast the night before. People are being asked to make commitments days in advance. How many heritage lines pick up passengers from someone driving and past and seeing them? I imagine quite a few. Having to book removes spontaneity of choice.

My other concern is over fares.

A number of lines are only selling compartments for one round trip fares seen so far are £50 to £60 for one compartment for one round trip discriminates against single people and even to some extent couples where the combined normal fares would not reach the total requested. Despite having to pay considerably more the “ride all day” facility where it existed has been removed.

Yes, I accept that there is a need to bring in vital revenue, but I wonder if the significant increase in costs along with the hassle of booking online will just put many people off?

Then of course there is the matter of supporter’s concessions. During the lockdown I am sure many enthusiasts have made virtual visits, donated money, bought goods from lines that have online shops etc. In addition to this I, myself, have taken out two life memberships and joined a couple of other lines on an annual basis to try and do my modest bit to help the lines I regularly visit.

So far from what I have seen lines are modifying these. One line is removing the concession from the normal service and operating member’s specials out of hours, another stating accommodation is limited and phone up. Okay reasonable to some extent but I imagine there will be other lines that axe them completely.

Basically, I just want to know what is preventing heritage railways operating on the same terms as Network Rail service and offering as near a normal service as possible?

As I see things at present, I just do not see visiting a heritage line as being a pleasant day out anymore and I am an enthusiast.

If I feel put off what must the average non enthusiast family feel like?

Is this way of operating even sustainable?

I guess the answer to that question will be answered in early September when summer holiday figures are analysed.

John

It's that or they don't reopen and don't survive, it really is that simple.

 

[paul1609]

During the past few days, I have received notifications from heritage railways that I support of their reopening plans. I can’t say any fill me with any great enthusiasm due to the way in which their operations are being restarted. There also appears to be much commonality in arrangements which makes one wonder whether they are following a set script.

My main concerns are:

All seen so far are offering “joy ride” services – just there and back usually on consecutive trains.

Some are only operating over part of their route.

Journey’s must start and finish at one station.

This stops people from using lines to access walks, visit pubs along the route etc. Not everyone that visits a heritage line just wants to sit on the train and do a round trip – the train is often part of a bigger day out for many families.

It is no longer possible to book a single journey – some people walk one way and return by train.

(Basically, they have given up any pretence at a real transport function and one wonders if in becoming basically a fairground ride there may be VAT implication. My point is that throughout the lockdown it has been possible to turn up at a network rail station and travel without all this regulation. Why are heritage lines not working to the same rules as their network counterparts?)

Most lines want journeys pre-booked – often on-line. Though one line I have come across has stated there is no need to prebook – which I was pleased to see. Pre-booking this makes things difficult for those who are not online or who prefer not to make transactions online. How can one line state there is no need to pre-book when others do?

(This bothers me because I imagine many families make day trip decisions whether on holiday or venturing out from home probably on the spare of the moment – might be the weather forecast the night before. People are being asked to make commitments days in advance. How many heritage lines pick up passengers from someone driving and past and seeing them? I imagine quite a few. Having to book removes spontaneity of choice.

My other concern is over fares.

A number of lines are only selling compartments for one round trip fares seen so far are £50 to £60 for one compartment for one round trip discriminates against single people and even to some extent couples where the combined normal fares would not reach the total requested. Despite having to pay considerably more the “ride all day” facility where it existed has been removed.

Yes, I accept that there is a need to bring in vital revenue, but I wonder if the significant increase in costs along with the hassle of booking online will just put many people off?

Then of course there is the matter of supporter’s concessions. During the lockdown I am sure many enthusiasts have made virtual visits, donated money, bought goods from lines that have online shops etc. In addition to this I, myself, have taken out two life memberships and joined a couple of other lines on an annual basis to try and do my modest bit to help the lines I regularly visit.

So far from what I have seen lines are modifying these. One line is removing the concession from the normal service and operating member’s specials out of hours, another stating accommodation is limited and phone up. Okay reasonable to some extent but I imagine there will be other lines that axe them completely.

Basically, I just want to know what is preventing heritage railways operating on the same terms as Network Rail service and offering as near a normal service as possible?

As I see things at present, I just do not see visiting a heritage line as being a pleasant day out anymore and I am an enthusiast.

If I feel put off what must the average non enthusiast family feel like?

Is this way of operating even sustainable?

I guess the answer to that question will be answered in early September when summer holiday figures are analysed.

John

The railways are following the guidelines issued by the Heritage Railway Association in discussion with the Office of Road and Rail. These are for members only so I cant publish them here.
Its this or nothing at the present time. If it was nothing many of the railways wont survive through the winter to re-open next year.

National Rail is operating like it is because it has been all but nationalised and the government is paying Billions in subsidy. If it wasnt most of the lines would have closed by now with tens of thousands of rail staff made redundant. The heritage sector is not receiving that level of support.

 

[WestRiding]

This is why i will not be rushing to my favorite railway, the RG&ER. I dont want to just do a train ride, i like to get off, have a walk, go to the pub, eat out, use the intermediate stations.

 

[30907]

This is why i will not be rushing to my favorite railway, the RG&ER. I dont want to just do a train ride, i like to get off, have a walk, go to the pub, eat out, use the intermediate stations.

Slightly OT, but Google brings up the Rochester Gas and Electric line - I don't think that's around here, could you enlighten me?

 

[221129]

Slightly OT, but Google brings up the Rochester Gas and Electric line - I don't think that's around here, could you enlighten me?

Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway I would think.

 

[Flying Phil]

This is why i will not be rushing to my favorite railway, the RG&ER. I dont want to just do a train ride, i like to get off, have a walk, go to the pub, eat out, use the intermediate stations.

I just hope that you will have been donating to help keep your favourite railway viable until you do want to return ......as many obviously are doing.

 

[30907]

Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway I would think.

Thanks - never seen it with a G in before. They haven't announced their plans yet.

 

[nanstallon]

Fair play to the railways for devising a way to offer some sort of service.

For a leisure trip they need to reassure prospective punters that they will be safe on board.

Being able to reserve a compo for your family sounds like a much better option than taking your chances in an open coach.

Yes, I respect railways that are at least trying, and will seek to travel on them even if conditions are not perfect. Having well used trains running is a welcome boost to morale. I worry about the West Somerset - just giving up on the 2020 season, and making excuses for not trying. It's a lovely line, but does it have the will to live?

 

[Journeyman]

Yes, I respect railways that are at least trying, and will seek to travel on them even if conditions are not perfect. Having well used trains running is a welcome boost to morale. I worry about the West Somerset - just giving up on the 2020 season, and making excuses for not trying. It's a lovely line, but does it have the will to live?

I wonder if the WSR is very dependent on inbound tourism to the area, and is assuming there won't be enough to operate profitably?

Otherwise, do they have enough compartment stock available?

 

[nanstallon]

I wonder if the WSR is very dependent on inbound tourism to the area, and is assuming there won't be enough to operate profitably?

Otherwise, do they have enough compartment stock available?

The Dartmouth Steam Railway is also in a tourist area, and has no compartment stock. They seem to be going great guns with their trains.

 

[DB]

I wonder if the WSR is very dependent on inbound tourism to the area, and is assuming there won't be enough to operate profitably?

Otherwise, do they have enough compartment stock available?

Obviously there are tourists to the area, but it's not a major tourism hotspot. The nearest reasonable-sized town, Taunton, couldn't exactly be described as exciting..

 

[yorkie]

Does anyone know of any heritage railways that will allow us to arrive by train, travel somewhere, do a walk, then travel back?

For example I looked at the Ecclesbourne railway but it is not currently possible to board at Duffield, nor is it possible to alight from the train at the destination, so that idea has had to be ruled out.

Is this possible at any other railways at present? If so I'd be interested to hear of which ones.

 

[nanstallon]

The Dartmouth Steam Railway allows you to travel from Paignton (which has a frequent 'main line' service from Exeter and Newton Abbot) down to Kingswear and come back on a later train. There is plenty of good walking around Kingswear - coastal path, castle, ferry to Dartmouth which is a very historic town with a castle, too. The service is quite frequent, too.

 

[UP13]

I've already made a modest donation to my local(ish) line, the Watercress and am planning on making a trip with my little ones soon (they keeping asking to see Thomas and the other steam engines). It might not be the experience we are used to, but it's good to get out of the house and support the railway.


I've also been very impressed with the series of YouTube videos that the Railway has produced during lockdown. Does anybody know of any other railways who have done similar?

 

[John Luxton]

I started this thread based on knowledge available about how the heritage sector was reopening and commented on the heavily managed approach of passengers which appeared to remove any semblance of a public transport function and created more of a fairground ride.

Yesterday I was able to visit the Ffestiniog Railway for the first time since early this year and there was a members' day in which they were practicing for a reopening to the public on Monday.

It was an interesting and different experience.

Everything at Harbour station was heavily managed with one way flows.

Their shop was closed - yes I know it is a bit congested in there - but many shops have reduced displays to create bigger circulating areas. Interestingly down the road the Welsh Highland Heritage Railway Shop and Cafe were open - though they have not restarted train operations - but that was always a "joy ride" operation which these days appears to target the young family cheap day out market.

FR are using their historic compartment stock and some other stock modified with the addition of temporary partitions on the seat backs to create compartments which appears a sensible approach to social distancing.

All trains operate non stop to Tan y bwlch except for token procedures and crossing at Minffordd. At Tanybwlch the cafe is open for passengers and passers by with plenty of outside seating and the gazebo tent which provided shelter from the heavy rain!

However, onlookers are not allowed on the platforms at Porthmadog and Tan y blwch though as there are plenty of vantage points including the Cob this isn't an issue.

It is clear a lot of thought has gone into the planning to the extent I would say it was micromanaged. I don't want this to appear a criticism as I am a member of the FRS and WHRS and management have done what obviously they think is right in the circumstances.

However, other lines appear to be trying to be as near normal as possible.

I noticed the other day some information from the East Lancashire Railway arrived. (Despite being fairly close to me compared to most of the Welsh Railways I have only visited once after it reopened - mainly due to being a GWR / Southern/ Welsh Narrow Gauge type.)

This indicates they will be operating an all station service and fairly normal service.

I also notice from the web site Dart Valley Railway (Dartmouth Steam Railway) appear to be functioning normally as well.

There now does seem to be a two strategies being used by the heritage sector in reopening:

Some are returning to as near normal as possible whilst others are adopting the micromanagement of people approach.

I wonder why there has been a divergence?

At first I thought it might be Wales vs England - but quite a few lines such as KWVR, Gloucester and Warwickshire and Dean Forest, Swanage seem to be following the managed approach and they are in England.

I must admit on a personal basis as near normal as possible makes me feel more comfortable whereas excessive management makes me feel uncomfortable.

How do others feel and which approach do you prefer?

The bottom line is which approach will attract the most passengers!

John

 

[bramling]

I started this thread based on knowledge available about how the heritage sector was reopening and commented on the heavily managed approach of passengers which appeared to remove any semblance of a public transport function and created more of a fairground ride.

Yesterday I was able to visit the Ffestiniog Railway for the first time since early this year and there was a members' day in which they were practicing for a reopening to the public on Monday.

It was an interesting and different experience.

Everything at Harbour station was heavily managed with one way flows.

Their shop was closed - yes I know it is a bit congested in there - but many shops have reduced displays to create bigger circulating areas. Interestingly down the road the Welsh Highland Heritage Railway Shop and Cafe were open - though they have not restarted train operations - but that was always a "joy ride" operation which these days appears to target the young family cheap day out market.

FR are using their historic compartment stock and some other stock modified with the addition of temporary partitions on the seat backs to create compartments which appears a sensible approach to social distancing.

All trains operate non stop to Tan y bwlch except for token procedures and crossing at Minffordd. At Tanybwlch the cafe is open for passengers and passers by with plenty of outside seating and the gazebo tent which provided shelter from the heavy rain!

However, onlookers are not allowed on the platforms at Porthmadog and Tan y blwch though as there are plenty of vantage points including the Cob this isn't an issue.

It is clear a lot of thought has gone into the planning to the extent I would say it was micromanaged. I don't want this to appear a criticism as I am a member of the FRS and WHRS and management have done what obviously they think is right in the circumstances.

However, other lines appear to be trying to be as near normal as possible.

I noticed the other day some information from the East Lancashire Railway arrived. (Despite being fairly close to me compared to most of the Welsh Railways I have only visited once after it reopened - mainly due to being a GWR / Southern/ Welsh Narrow Gauge type.)

This indicates they are operating an all station service and fairly normal service.

I also notice from the web site Dart Valley Railway (Dartmouth Steam Railway) appear to be functioning normally as well.

There now does seem to be a two strategies being used by the heritage sector in reopening:

Some are returning to as near normal as possible whilst others are adopting the micromanagement of people approach.

I wonder why there has been a divergence?

At first I thought it might be Wales vs England - but quite a few lines such as KWVR, Gloucester and Warwickshire and Dean Forest, Swanage seem to be following the managed approach and they are in England.

I must admit on a personal basis as near normal as possible makes me feel more comfortable whereas excessive management makes me feel uncomfortable.

How do others feel and which approach do you prefer?

The bottom line is which approach will attract the most passengers!

John

Presumably some of the narrow-gauge railways have little choice but to go for the managed approach due to the lack of space to achieve distancing.

I don’t think the managed approach necessarily should be a problem if done well. I’d be quite happy to pay a fair amount for a trip in a reserved compartment - this could actually appeal to many. Where I might be more reticent is only getting to cover half the distance, but to families is this a major issue?

At present something has to be better than nothing. There’s railways like the Vale of Rheidol who are likely not to be opening up at all this year.

I’d certainly be happy to pay a quite high sum for a guaranteed compartment on something like the Welsh Highland (though to be fair you often get that normally if you choose to use one of the lock-ups!).

 

[John Luxton]

Presumably some of the narrow-gauge railways have little choice but to go for the managed approach due to the lack of space to achieve distancing.

I’d certainly be happy to pay a quite high sum for a guaranteed compartment on something like the Welsh Highland (though to be fair you often get that normally if you choose to use one of the lock-ups!).

Using compartment stock and some semi open non corridor stock with temporarily fitted screens on the seat backs delivers the distancing well. My comment is really about the station arrangements at Porthmadog. Since the rebuild it is quite a large station with lengthy platforms. Other NG lines have much more compact stations - I am off to Tal-y-llyn at the end of the month to see how they are doing it and Wharf is very compact compared to Porthmadog Harbour.

My other point is about not allowing use of intermediate stations Dartmouth and soon East Lancs appear to be allowing that - they in my book are offering a near enough normal public service. I have only been to the ELR once when it first opened. I might go and take a look out of curiosity when they reopen in August and see how they are managing things.

What I did find strange with FR is the online only bookings. Now I can see that reduces staff / public interaction a bit - but when it comes to the cafe at Tan-y-bwlch people interact with the staff in a much more open environment. In the booking office at Harbour Station there has always been a class screen - and as I see it working in the booking office would be safer than in the cafe when it comes to close contact with customers.

John

 

[Journeyman]

I think we're getting dangerously close to worrying about a practically non-existent group of goat-herders if we're getting too upset about online booking. How many people active enough to go out to a heritage railway have no internet access at all?

 

[Enthusiast]

I'm a Life Member of the Bluebell Railway. Have been so for >20 years. Get free First Class travel. I visit probably five or six times a year, spend a few bob whilst I'm there and have a treat on their evening "Golden Arrow" dining train (for which I happily pay the full whack) most years. I contributed a few quid to their Covid recovery fund - easily as much as I would have spent on a couple of visits including my overnight costs. So, what do I get for my trouble? A letter yesterday telling me that after re-opening on 7th August my free travel is to be withdrawn and I must book and pay for tickets along with everybody else at a 20% discount. The arrangement will be reviewed at the end of the year. What else do I find:

"All of our services have a departure time. We ask that people arrive for their booked service 20 minutes before the train leaves. We don’t want you standing for a long time in a socially distanced queue. Boarding will be approximately 10 minutes before departure. If you are early, we encourage you to wait in your car or make use of our picnic area and green spaces located near the main carparks. There will be no access to the station before that time."

Fancy a bite to eat or a drink?

"For now, The Bessemer Arms at Sheffield Park and platform seating is closed, but the Kiosk on Platform 1 is open."

The line between Kingscote and East Grinstead is closed. A couple of weeks ago when the re-opening was first proposed it was said that East Grinstead would remain closed because it presents "distancing" problems. Now they say there is a track problem. I must wear a face covering when on the train (unless on a train offering a food service). I'm asked to wear one whilst on and around the station. I can only start and end my journey at Sheffield Park (I usually start from Horsted as I stay in Ardingly). So my visits to the railway have gone from Mrs Enthusiast (also a Life Member) and I being able to spend a pleasant day roaming up and down the line for free to being able to make one pre-booked return trip from and to a place we don't want to travel to. We may not arrive to make our booked train as we have some distance to travel and the traffic is sometimes iffy. If I arrive too early I have to sit in my car. I can't travel by train as East Grinstead (Bluebell) is not being served. Sounds like a good day out. One, alas that Mrs E and I will have to pass on for the time being.

 

[paul1609]

I'm a Life Member of the Bluebell Railway. Have been so for >20 years. Get free First Class travel. I visit probably five or six times a year, spend a few bob whilst I'm there and have a treat on their evening "Golden Arrow" dining train (for which I happily pay the full whack) most years. I contributed a few quid to their Covid recovery fund - easily as much as I would have spent on a couple of visits including my overnight costs. So, what do I get for my trouble? A letter yesterday telling me that after re-opening on 7th August my free travel is to be withdrawn and I must book and pay for tickets along with everybody else at a 20% discount. The arrangement will be reviewed at the end of the year. What else do I find:

"All of our services have a departure time. We ask that people arrive for their booked service 20 minutes before the train leaves. We don’t want you standing for a long time in a socially distanced queue. Boarding will be approximately 10 minutes before departure. If you are early, we encourage you to wait in your car or make use of our picnic area and green spaces located near the main carparks. There will be no access to the station before that time."

Fancy a bite to eat or a drink?

"For now, The Bessemer Arms at Sheffield Park and platform seating is closed, but the Kiosk on Platform 1 is open."

The line between Kingscote and East Grinstead is closed. A couple of weeks ago when the re-opening was first proposed it was said that East Grinstead would remain closed because it presents "distancing" problems. Now they say there is a track problem. I must wear a face covering when on the train (unless on a train offering a food service). I'm asked to wear one whilst on and around the station. I can only start and end my journey at Sheffield Park (I usually start from Horsted as I stay in Ardingly). So my visits to the railway have gone from Mrs Enthusiast (also a Life Member) and I being able to spend a pleasant day roaming up and down the line for free to being able to make one pre-booked return trip from and to a place we don't want to travel to. We may not arrive to make our booked train as we have some distance to travel and the traffic is sometimes iffy. If I arrive too early I have to sit in my car. I can't travel by train as East Grinstead (Bluebell) is not being served. Sounds like a good day out. One, alas that Mrs E and I will have to pass on for the time being.

Enthusiast, Im not a member or volunteer of the Bluebell but using my experience from a railway about 40 miles east of there I would say that you have to be aware that the heritage railways are in a battle to survive and need the understanding and support of their members. This includes the understanding that their benefits may have to be curtailed for some time.
We also havent opened our restaurant facilities that is because the limited footfall that we can accomodate with the Covid restrictions mean that they are in the short term, probably for at least this season not viable. We also have our kiosk open, this can accomodate probably 50 to 60% of the demand without the costs.
Everybody understands that the product is less attractive than it was pre-covid but it is the best that can currently be offered, the enthusiast market needs to understand that and get behind the railways. The reality of the situation is that without their support and understanding many of the railways will simply not re-open. It is not necessarily the smaller railways that will fail either.

 

[John Luxton]

I'm a Life Member of the Bluebell Railway. Have been so for >20 years. Get free First Class travel. I visit probably five or six times a year, spend a few bob whilst I'm there and have a treat on their evening "Golden Arrow" dining train (for which I happily pay the full whack) most years. I contributed a few quid to their Covid recovery fund - easily as much as I would have spent on a couple of visits including my overnight costs. So, what do I get for my trouble? A letter yesterday telling me that after re-opening on 7th August my free travel is to be withdrawn and I must book and pay for tickets along with everybody else at a 20% discount. The arrangement will be reviewed at the end of the year. What else do I find:

"All of our services have a departure time. We ask that people arrive for their booked service 20 minutes before the train leaves. We don’t want you standing for a long time in a socially distanced queue. Boarding will be approximately 10 minutes before departure. If you are early, we encourage you to wait in your car or make use of our picnic area and green spaces located near the main carparks. There will be no access to the station before that time."

Fancy a bite to eat or a drink?

"For now, The Bessemer Arms at Sheffield Park and platform seating is closed, but the Kiosk on Platform 1 is open."

The line between Kingscote and East Grinstead is closed. A couple of weeks ago when the re-opening was first proposed it was said that East Grinstead would remain closed because it presents "distancing" problems. Now they say there is a track problem. I must wear a face covering when on the train (unless on a train offering a food service). I'm asked to wear one whilst on and around the station. I can only start and end my journey at Sheffield Park (I usually start from Horsted as I stay in Ardingly). So my visits to the railway have gone from Mrs Enthusiast (also a Life Member) and I being able to spend a pleasant day roaming up and down the line for free to being able to make one pre-booked return trip from and to a place we don't want to travel to. We may not arrive to make our booked train as we have some distance to travel and the traffic is sometimes iffy. If I arrive too early I have to sit in my car. I can't travel by train as East Grinstead (Bluebell) is not being served. Sounds like a good day out. One, alas that Mrs E and I will have to pass on for the time being.

Yes I am afraid visiting a heritage railway will not be the same fun experience it once was until we get back to normal normal - not new normal. I think we know that the sector is struggling, this year I have have upgraded one ordinary membership to life membership, taken out two life memberships of lines I visit but have not been a member of their supporting societies and taken out two ordinary memberships of other societies. Further more I have sent several cash donations and bought quite a few books and DVD on line from one line which has a good online shop.

I am sure there are many other members who have done their bit during Lockdown to keep their favourite lines afloat. Now that things are unlocking a bit it does seem unreasonable that some lines are forgetting the enthusiasts that have supported them. Obviously the Bluebell seem to be particularly mean from what you have described.

Ffestiniog I think have been quite fair - there was a members day on Saturday and they will be providing limited accommodation for FR & WHR Society members who phone up in advance on trains. Seems reasonable. What they have done is removed local residents discount card though these have been extended for several months in compensation and are still valid in cafes.

Tal-y-llyn are having a couple of days for members at the end of the month to try out their systems and then there will be quite a few members only trains in early evening during August which will call at intermediate stations. I think in the latest email limited numbers of members will be allowed on the last train of the day as well.

Whilst I think there is a fine line to be drawn between maximising revenue - there is also a need to reward members who have probably gone out of the way to support their lines during lockdown. It appears FR and TR have come up with a reasonable compromise. Bluebell - just seem mean!

John

 

[John Luxton]

Everybody understands that the product is less attractive than it was pre-covid but it is the best that can currently be offered, the enthusiast market needs to understand that and get behind the railways. The reality of the situation is that without their support and understanding many of the railways will simply not re-open. It is not necessarily the smaller railways that will fail either.

I think the problem is many of us have dipped generously into our wallets and purses over the past few months - in my case spending money which was earmarked for cancelled holidays in other parts of the country to visit other railways away from my home area.

I think people just want to see railway making an effort to show recognition of their members efforts and the comments made about the Bluebell suggest that they are not making an effort whilst FR and TR obviously trying to continue concessions.

However, rather than making a big fuss about the railways I do believe anyone who wants to see things get back to normal need to direct their main effort at the politicians. I wrote several letters last week.

At least some of the politicians are starting to wake up now. I see Iain Duncan Smith made an interesting critique of the mishandling of the Covid affair yesterday.

John

 

[John Luxton]

I think we're getting dangerously close to worrying about a practically non-existent group of goat-herders if we're getting too upset about online booking. How many people active enough to go out to a heritage railway have no internet access at all?

I am just looking at the numbers of people often seen buying tickets. What worries me is that sometimes people only decide on their holiday activities on a day by day basis. The weather may help them decide. Having to commit to reservations several days before their intended visit. - Not all people on holiday may have easy internet access unlike at home. It removes the on spec decision to visit from people driving past and seeing the railway.

Also if catering staff can serve food from behind a counter - perhaps with a flimsy screen why can't someone sell tickets from behind the glass screen most booking offices have? I would say much less risk to staff in the booking office than behind the cafe counter.

John

 

[alex17595]

I find the out-and-back method very discouraging, neither am I a fan of not operating over the full the length of the line - I can understand this as many of the volunteers will be in the higher risk category.

I like to make days out of these things with either visiting somewhere at the destination or walking between stations, I think the best way to go is just let people book onto whatever train they want with no walk ups.

 

[Scrotnig]

I will be honest, I can understand the withdrawal of free or discounted travel for members for the time being as they will be wanting, indeed NEEDING to maximise revenue from reduced capacity.

I can't use any heritage railway now due to the mask law, but if I did use the ones I am a member of, I'd not claim any member discounts even if they were offered. They need the money.

Sadly using heritage railways is not an option for me now, nor for the foreseeable future. The few railways I am a member of, I may send them the equivalent of the price of a ticket as a donation.

 

[bramling]

I will be honest, I can understand the withdrawal of free or discounted travel for members for the time being as they will be wanting, indeed NEEDING to maximise revenue from reduced capacity.

I can't use any heritage railway now due to the mask law, but if I did use the ones I am a member of, I'd not claim any member discounts even if they were offered. They need the money.

Sadly using heritage railways is not an option for me now, nor for the foreseeable future. The few railways I am a member of, I may send them the equivalent of the price of a ticket as a donation.

Are that many railways mandating masks? I can’t see the need especially where a compartment is reserved.

 

[Scrotnig]

Are that many railways mandating masks? I can’t see the need especially where a compartment is reserved.

Some are.

I'm confused as to whether the mask law even applies on heritage lines, especially since some say they are preferred but optional, even on lines running non-compartment stock.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not all people on holiday may have easy internet access unlike at home.

Most people now have smartphones, so yes, they do.

 

[Enthusiast]

This includes the understanding that their benefits may have to be curtailed for some time.

I can understand the withdrawal of free or discounted travel for members for the time being as they will be wanting, indeed NEEDING to maximise revenue from reduced capacity.

Unfortunately it's had the exact opposite affect on me. All it's done is to ensure I will not be visiting the railway unless and until my "benefit" is restored. I have lost 80% of mine - in fact a lot more than that as I was allowed unlimited travel. A ticket at 80% of the normal cost at present permits only one "out and back" journey to be made. I'm not sure what reduction annual members enjoyed but I imagine they are similarly affected but to a smaller degree. This may mean reduced membership numbers. More than that, my visits were usually spread over two days with an overnighter in a local hostelry. There is no way that will happen under the current arrangements. So, instead of my spending a few bob on food and drink and probably a little bit in the shop, my spend will be zero.

I could just about tolerate the nonsensical arrangements of face coverings, one way systems and all the rest of it. I might even have made the trip even though I would only be able to make one return, uninterrupted journey. But since I'll have to pay for it as well I'm afraid it's off limits. Quite honestly the way the experience has been described with the restrictions that will be in place I'd be surprised if the railway did much business at all during the summer after the initial novelty of reopening has worn off and I doubt the Bluebell is alone. Many HRs may well decide to turn it in until the world regains some of its lost marbles.