Reading to Ascot contactless payment

[Lightning01]

Hello all,
My family and I went to Ascot races yesterday (royal ascot week) and used the tap on tap off at Reading.
Once arriving at Ascot, we were told this wasn’t a valid ticket and issued a penalty fare.

We’re hoping to dispute this as there were no signs or announcements at Reading to say you can’t tap on/ tap off for Ascot. The station did have extra staff for royal ascot but the staff on the barriers where you tap in said nothing to the group of 9 of us and we were very obviously dressed as if we were going to the races

Any advice for the dispute of the penalty? We obviously showed an intention to pay as we did tap on but made a mistake as we didn’t know it wasn’t allowed for that journey. It also seems like entrapment - they had a whole tent at Ascot dedicated to this where we were issued the penalty

 

[James H]

SWR did have signs at Waterloo advising Ascot race-goers that they couldn't use contactless (but the design of the sign made it look like a promotional poster, rather than a warning notice). Not sure if these notices were also displayed at the Reading end of the line.

 

[Watershed]

Welcome to the forum.

Sadly you aren't the first case we have come across this week of people mistakenly believing you can use contactless to Ascot. Contactless is only valid at Reading if you use GWR or Elizabeth line services towards London. It's not valid on SWR services from Reading, and won't be for quite a few more years yet until they continue rolling out contactless further. Contactless isn't valid at Ascot at all - the closest station where it's valid is Virginia Water, as of the contactless extension earlier this year.

If you want to know whether you can use contactless for a given journey or route, the best option is to check the map that shows where contactless is valid. Similar maps are usually also displayed onboard trains. If in doubt, it's best to buy a paper ticket, or eTicket (where available).

I can appreciate why you feel aggrieved, but ultimately it's not the responsibility of barrier staff to double check where you are planning on going when you touch in, or exactly what kind of card you touched at the barriers. You might have been using a smartcard which had a Reading-Ascot ticket loaded onto it, for example.

I agree that SWR could be dealing with this situation in a more customer-friendly and pragmatic manner - after all, you're being penalised for a mistake that quite a lot of people make, and you'll be charged a maximum fare for an incomplete journey by TfL on top. However, legally speaking they don't appear to have done anything wrong. They aren't obliged to give you the opportunity to buy a ticket after you've made your journey - given that you would have been able to buy a ticket at Reading before boarding, they can go straight to issuing a Penalty Fare and could even have taken your details for a prosecution under the Railway Byelaws if they'd been feeling particularly harsh.

There is nothing lost by appealing the Penalty Fare, but the only realistic grounds you could argue this on would be if the PF itself has been filled out incorrectly, e.g. with the wrong fare (we'd need to see a redacted copy of it to advise whether this could be the case), or on general 'compelling reason' grounds. I doubt the latter would succeed though - travelling beyond the contactless area is something the appeals bodies will see all the time, and they're unlikely to effectively 'condone' this by allowing PF appeals every time this happens.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. The only upside I can offer is that the Penalty Fare is reduced by £50, to £50 plus the single fare you would have paid, if it's paid within 21 days. The 'clock' on this 21 day period is stopped whilst any appeal is being processed, so you can buy a bit of extra time that way if you are struggling to pay.

 

[Lightning01]

SWR did have signs at Waterloo advising Ascot race-goers that they couldn't use contactless (but the design of the sign made it look like a promotional poster, rather than a warning notice). Not sure if these notices were also displayed at the Reading end of the line.

Thanks James, we didn’t see any of these signs at Reading. There’s only about 10ft from the entrance to the barriers and not a single thing

 

[island]

Unfortunately I can only endorse what Watershed wrote: whilst it may be said that SWR aren't acting in a particularly customer-friendly way, they're fully within their rights to issue penalty fares in this situation. Gateline staff at Reading won't have known what kind of card you were using nor where you were going. SWR regularly do similar operations at stations marginally outside the contactless zone that are expected to have lots of occasional travellers, such as Staines on busy summer weekends to catch the Thorpe Park crowd. I ran into them a number of times there, once using a valid ITSO ticket which failed to read on first attempt. An RPI sprang on me almost straight away only for his face to visibly fall moments later when I represented the card from my card wallet and the gate opened.

You can get the unfinished journey charge on your contactless cards refunded by calling TfL and explaining. They may ask for you to email in a copy of your penalty fare notice and receipt for payment of same, so don't lose them.

It's not "entrapment", by the way. That has a much higher threshold.

 

[Lightning01]

Welcome to the forum.

Sadly you aren't the first case we have come across this week of people mistakenly believing you can use contactless to Ascot. Contactless is only valid at Reading if you use GWR or Elizabeth line services towards London. It's not valid on SWR services from Reading, and won't be for quite a few more years yet until they continue rolling out contactless further. Contactless isn't valid at Ascot at all - the closest station where it's valid is Virginia Water, as of the contactless extension earlier this year.

If you want to know whether you can use contactless for a given journey or route, the best option is to check the map that shows where contactless is valid. Similar maps are usually also displayed onboard trains. If in doubt, it's best to buy a paper ticket, or eTicket (where available).

I can appreciate why you feel aggrieved, but ultimately it's not the responsibility of barrier staff to double check where you are planning on going when you touch in, or exactly what kind of card you touched at the barriers. You might have been using a smartcard which had a Reading-Ascot ticket loaded onto it, for example.

I agree that SWR could be dealing with this situation in a more customer-friendly and pragmatic manner - after all, you're being penalised for a mistake that quite a lot of people make, and you'll be charged a maximum fare for an incomplete journey by TfL on top. However, legally speaking they don't appear to have done anything wrong. They aren't obliged to give you the opportunity to buy a ticket after you've made your journey - given that you would have been able to buy a ticket at Reading before boarding, they can go straight to issuing a Penalty Fare and could even have taken your details for a prosecution under the Railway Byelaws if they'd been feeling particularly harsh.

There is nothing lost by appealing the Penalty Fare, but the only realistic grounds you could argue this on would be if the PF itself has been filled out incorrectly, e.g. with the wrong fare (we'd need to see a redacted copy of it to advise whether this could be the case), or on general 'compelling reason' grounds. I doubt the latter would succeed though - travelling beyond the contactless area is something the appeals bodies will see all the time, and they're unlikely to effectively 'condone' this by allowing PF appeals every time this happens.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. The only upside I can offer is that the Penalty Fare is reduced by £50, to £50 plus the single fare you would have paid, if it's paid within 21 days. The 'clock' on this 21 day period is stopped whilst any appeal is being processed, so you can buy a bit of extra time that way if you are struggling to pay.

Thanks for all the info and detailed explanation! I do feel a bit more hard done by as looking at the whole families penalty notices- they all have different reasons and prices put down. And even more so that reading station has 2 entrances and the one we used was blocked off for ascot specifically as it goes direct to the platform and crowd control

I will try an appeal but not feeling optimistic based on what you’ve advised ‍♀️ a hard lesson learnt

 

[Watershed]

Thanks for all the info and detailed explanation! I do feel a bit more hard done by as looking at the whole families penalty notices- they all have different reasons and prices put down. And even more so that reading station has 2 entrances and the one we used was blocked off for ascot specifically as it goes direct to the platform and crowd control

I will try an appeal but not feeling optimistic based on what you’ve advised ‍♀️ a hard lesson learnt

If you can upload a redacted copy of the notices, we can determine whether there might be additional grounds for appeal beyond the aforementioned 'compelling reasons' (where I wouldn't be hopeful).

 

[Lightning01]

If you can upload a redacted copy of the notices, we can determine whether there might be additional grounds for appeal beyond the aforementioned 'compelling reasons' (where I wouldn't be hopeful).

Here's 2 of ours with the different prices too. Thanks for your help

 

[island]

The correct one should be £109.30. £106.60 is based on the Evening Out fare.

 

[Elecman]

Contact TfL immediately for refunds on the maximum fares on the contactless card showing the penalty fare notice.
Appeal the incorrect priced Penalty Fare Notice as it hasn’t been issued in line with the Regulations.

 

[AlterEgo]

I’m not sure we’ve seen “I should have paid more” succeed in an appeal, have we?

 

[island]

I’m not sure we’ve seen “I should have paid more” succeed in an appeal, have we?

I don't believe so.

 

[phoenix743]

Looking at the PFNs one has used the Evening out price which is normally after 12:00 which is why it’s cheaper

 

[flythetube]

Hello all,
My family and I went to Ascot races yesterday (royal ascot week) and used the tap on tap off at Reading.
Once arriving at Ascot, we were told this wasn’t a valid ticket and issued a penalty fare.

We’re hoping to dispute this as there were no signs or announcements at Reading to say you can’t tap on/ tap off for Ascot. The station did have extra staff for royal ascot but the staff on the barriers where you tap in said nothing to the group of 9 of us and we were very obviously dressed as if we were going to the races

Any advice for the dispute of the penalty? We obviously showed an intention to pay as we did tap on but made a mistake as we didn’t know it wasn’t allowed for that journey. It also seems like entrapment - they had a whole tent at Ascot dedicated to this where we were issued the penalty

These posters were up at various SWR Stations prior to this event !!!!

 

[davews]

Also depending on the train the PIS normally has an announcement that contactless is 'not valid on this train' that is played before the train leaves Reading. RPO's seem pretty busy this week, I had my ticket checked on the platform at Martins Heron just after I had bought it and of course Ascot has no barriers so they would need them there anyway. Sympathies to the OP but he is just another who has been caught out by this anomaly at Reading.

 

[island]

These posters were up at various SWR Stations prior to this event !!!!

Reading is not however an SWR station.

 

[MaidaVale]

Reading is not however an SWR station.

No, however there are often SWR posters and publicity nearer the bay platforms, and rightfully so given the amount of SWR services. Reading isn't a GWR station either, but there are plenty of GWR posters around.

There are some pre-recorded announcements on SWR services along the Reading line informing customers that Oyster and Contactless aren't valid, and these usually kick in on the approach to and after passing the contactless boundary. In my experience, they're a lot more common in the Reading-bound direction though, and I've only heard them trigger in the Waterloo-bound direction a few times. Guards do often make manual announcements regarding the matter though, so I'm somewhat surprised that you managed to complete the journey without any indication whatsoever surrounding contactless validity.

 

[phoenix743]

Also depending on the train the PIS normally has an announcement that contactless is 'not valid on this train' that is played before the train leaves Reading. RPO's seem pretty busy this week, I had my ticket checked on the platform at Martins Heron just after I had bought it and of course Ascot has no barriers so they would need them there anyway. Sympathies to the OP but he is just another who has been caught out by this anomaly at Reading.

I think they have them at Martins Heron and Sunningdale as these are well known as stations that people will buy a ticket from when short ticketing to Ascot. Paper tickets were probably marked and E tickets scanned so they can check this

 

[tatitiliti]

Hello all,
My family and I went to Ascot races yesterday (royal ascot week) and used the tap on tap off at Reading.
Once arriving at Ascot, we were told this wasn’t a valid ticket and issued a penalty fare.

We’re hoping to dispute this as there were no signs or announcements at Reading to say you can’t tap on/ tap off for Ascot. The station did have extra staff for royal ascot but the staff on the barriers where you tap in said nothing to the group of 9 of us and we were very obviously dressed as if we were going to the races

Any advice for the dispute of the penalty? We obviously showed an intention to pay as we did tap on but made a mistake as we didn’t know it wasn’t allowed for that journey. It also seems like entrapment - they had a whole tent at Ascot dedicated to this where we were issued the penalty

I’d definitely exhaust the three rounds of appeal. Regardless of what you paid, it was technically incorrectly issued with regards to the fare.

Also, if you appeal, I don’t believe you can be prosecuted if it goes unpaid afterwards (though someone can correct me if this has changed). The odds of them winning through civil recovery seem low given the error was made by the TOC, on the basis that the ticket they made you pay for wouldn’t have been valid on that service.

 

[Hadders]

Also, if you appeal, I don’t believe you can be prosecuted if it goes unpaid afterwards (though someone can correct me if this has changed).

That can't be relied on following the Chief Magistrates recent ruling.

Chief Magistrate ruling on prosecuting appealed Penalty Fares (February 2025)

Pleased to upload the attached ruling for discussion amongst the forum. I have to admit I don't fully follow the logic so I hope some wiser legal heads can clarify the implications. My reading is it doesn't really take us much further and regulation 11 really needs to be tested in court...

www.railforums.co.uk

The odds of them winning through civil recovery seem low given the error was made by the TOC, on the basis that the ticket they made you pay for wouldn’t have been valid on that service.

I'm not an expert of this sort of thing but I'd have thought that a civil court would want to make sure that SWR was put into the position it should have been had the correct fare been bought.

 

[Watershed]

The odds of them winning through civil recovery seem low given the error was made by the TOC, on the basis that the ticket they made you pay for wouldn’t have been valid on that service.

No error was made by the TOC here. The OP made the mistake of believing that contactless was valid. SWR could definitely have done more to prevent the OP from travelling having made that error, but they were under no legal obligation to do so and it wouldn't affect their ability to make a civil claim for the value of an unpaid Penalty Fare.