Reading to Gatwick on a Z1-6 Travelcard - Redhill ext?

[tsavage]

Hi All,

Heading to Gatwick [GTW] from Reading [RDG] on a Friday afternoon so need a single journey there and I read an earlier post about getting the extension from Redhill to Gatwick. The train I'm after is 80 minutes from RDG to GTW.

Would this still be the case if I have a Weekly London Zone 1-6+RDG Stations travel card?

It's just Redhill doesn't appear to be in Zone 6 from what I can tell. Originally I was looking at going to Clapham Junction to swap onto a Gatwick Bound train and using a Boundary Zone 6 to GTW extension or an East Croydon to GTW extension.

Would appreciate any advice or experiences and I hope I've provided enough info.

Thanks,
Sav.

FYI - on the return on the Sunday I'll be getting an Gatwick to BZ6 as I can still use my London Z1-6+Reading Stations Travelcard.

 

[yorkie]

Hi All,

Heading to Gatwick [GTW] from Reading [RDG] on a Friday afternoon so need a single journey there

Welcome to the forum.

An Off Peak Single is £17.80 via Gomshall.

However your thread title mentions a Z1-6 Travelcard. If that is what you hold, then you could travel via London with Reading - Boundary Zone 6 plus Boundary Zone 6 - Gatwick tickets.

and I read an earlier post about getting the extension from Redhill to Gatwick. The train I'm after is 80 minutes from RDG to GTW.

I'm not quite sure what post you read, but there appears to be some confusion. A ticket from Redhill would not be an extension, and would leave a gap.

Would this still be the case if I have a Weekly London Zone 1-6+RDG Stations travel card?

Are you saying you have a Reading - London Zones 1-6 Travelcard 7 Day Season? Always best to say what ticket(s) you already hold at the start, as that changes everything!

If so, a single from Boundary Zone 6 (or from a named station such as Purley or East Croydon) would be required.

It's just Redhill doesn't appear to be in Zone 6 from what I can tell.

It's not. Did someone say it is?

Originally I was looking at going to Clapham Junction to swap onto a Gatwick Bound train and using a Boundary Zone 6 to GTW extension or an East Croydon to GTW extension.

Either of those would be valid, or from Purley.

Would appreciate any advice or experiences and I hope I've provided enough info.

I'd get the Bakerloo Line* to Oxford Circus, where it's a cross-platform interchange to the Victoria Line, then take the usually quiet, lightly loaded service branded Gatwick Express operated by Govia Thameslink Railway. If you travel at off peak times, you will have so much room you may even get the entire front coach all to yourself!

(*You can do Paddington to Victoria direct, this takes a longer route initially heading west, and is much less frequent, but may be preferable if you have a lot of luggage or if you wish to avoid the deep level tube lines or escalators)

FYI - on the return on the Sunday I'll be getting an Gatwick to BZ6 as I can still use my London Z1-6+Reading Stations Travelcard.

That's fine.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I stand for correction, but I believe the OP wants to use the North Downs line direct from Reading to Gatwick (via Guildford and Redhill), to avoid the cross London transfer.

I don't have a map to hand at present as I'm on my mobile, so I can't easily check what ticket would be needed, but I'll update this post later.

 

[JonathanH]

I stand for correction, but I believe the OP wants to use the North Downs line direct from Reading to Gatwick (via Guildford and Redhill), to avoid the cross London transfer.

I don't have a map to hand at present as I'm on my mobile, so I can't easily check what ticket would be needed, but I'll update this post later.

...In which case (in possession of a Reading to London Zones 1-6 travelcard) a single from Wokingham to Gatwick Airport would be needed.

 

[miami]

...In which case (in possession of a Reading to London Zones 1-6 travelcard) a single from Wokingham to Gatwick Airport would be needed.

Is that right - would a bz6-gatwick convert his reading-London season to a reading-gateock ticket, and then be valid on direct train?

 

[yorkie]

Is that right - would a bz6-gatwick convert his reading-London season to a reading-gateock ticket, and then be valid on direct train?

No, it would not convert the ticket. But the two tickets would be valid for one journey under Condition 19.

 

[kieron]

and I read an earlier post about getting the extension from Redhill to Gatwick. The train I'm after is 80 minutes from RDG to GTW.

I'm not quite sure what post you read, but there appears to be some confusion. A ticket from Redhill would not be an extension, and would leave a gap.

I don't know what tsavage saw to prompt this question, but it could have been something like this:

If you had a ticket from Reading to Coulsdon South, NRE* will happily say this is valid using a direct train from Reading to Redhill (and a second train to Earlswood, if you're going that way anyway).

If you then click "with Travelcard", it will say that a day Travelcard (an off peak one for these times) from Reading is suitable.

There's no explanation of what routes are valid with a Travelcard outside the zones in the usual public sources, so I have no reason to doubt the validity of an itinerary from NRE. fgw.co.uk gives the same itineraries for the ticket, but I can't link to those.

A ticket from Earlswood (Surrey) to Gatwick would also be needed. If a season ticket was used from Reading (but a non-season ticket for the last bit), tsavage would not need to catch a train which stops at Earlswood, owing to clause 19c of the NRCOC.

There's no point in buying a 7 day Travelcard for this one journey, of course, as using a Reading day travelcard and a Redhill-Gatwick ticket would be good enough for the route described, and much cheaper.

* You may need to delete any nationalrail.co.uk cookies you have for this URL to load correctly.

 

[tsavage]

Afternoon All,

Thanks all for the welcome and replies so far.

Sorry for any confusion.

However your thread title mentions a Z1-6 Travelcard. If that is what you hold, then you could travel via London with Reading - Boundary Zone 6 plus Boundary Zone 6 - Gatwick tickets.

Yes, I have a Reading & London Zones 1-6 Travelcard 7 Day Season I typically use for work so just want to see what additional tickets I would need to buy to get me to Gatwick Airport from Reading after work to get the most out of my "relatively expensive" travel ticket. I'm aware of the BZ6 to GTW extension but as Cyrus alludes to, there is a direct train to GTW from RDG (North Down Line as it turns out it's supposedly called) I can ride but I'm not sure what additional tickets I need to allow me to travel this route with my existing weekly travel card.

I stand for correction, but I believe the OP wants to use the North Downs line direct from Reading to Gatwick (via Guildford and Redhill), to avoid the cross London transfer.

Correct. Essentially what I'm after. Happy to go into London and do the BZ6-GTW if it means the single will cost me less than £5.

...In which case (in possession of a Reading to London Zones 1-6 travelcard) a single from Wokingham to Gatwick Airport would be needed.

Is this the option from RDG? This cost £19-ish I am looking to go cheaper even if it means going into London.

I don't know what tsavage saw to prompt this question.....

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1960635
It did not occur to me at all that a train would go to GTW from RDG as I thought it was just buses. This post showed me the light




There is a direct train I'm aiming to use my existing weekly travel ticket, from Reading to Gatwick that takes 1hr 20min and calls at North Camp [NCM], Guildford [GLD], Dorking Deepdene [DPD], Reigate [REI], Redhill [RDH], but don't know the train network enough to know what ticket extension would be valid. i.e Does the train have to go into the 1-6 zone to be valid for my travelcard to be valid? I don't want to have to buy a full journey as I know I can get an extension.

If the options are too expensive I'll just go back into London get a Gatwick Bound train using a Boundary Zone 6 to GTW extension or an East Croydon to GTW extension.

Thanks for your assistance,
Sav.

 

[talldave]

A Boundary Zone 6 to Gatwick ticket is better as you can use the Gatwick Express as well as Southern and Thameslink services.

 

[higthomas]

So, just to complicate the situation, might the Reading-Zones 1-6 Travelcard be valid as far as Redhill? Since Coulsedon South, which is inside the zones, has Redhill as an appropriate routing point, is it a valid route via Redhill?

For the OP's sake, here is a map which shows the route from Reading-Redhill-Gatwick. The stuff inside the yellow box is the travelcard zone, and inside here your season ticket is always valid. You can aslo use it to travel from Reading into the yellow box, via a set of routes as allowed by the routing guide. I am questioning whether one of those allowed route would be Reading-Guildford-Redhill-Coulsedon South-London. If this is allowed, it means you could travel as far as Redhill on the direct Reading-Gatwick train using your season ticket, and then only need to buy a ticket from Redhill-Gatwick.

 

[tsavage]

A Boundary Zone 6 to Gatwick ticket is better as you can use the Gatwick Express as well as Southern and Thameslink services.

Thanks talldave. So I can use this ticket on the direct train from Reading to Gatwick on the North Down line? The Gatwick Express doesn't go from Reading as far as I'm aware.

If I can avoid going back into London and not pay £20 from RDG, great.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

...might the Reading-Zones 1-6 Travelcard be valid as far as Redhill? Since Coulsedon South, which is inside the zones, has Redhill as an appropriate routing point, is it a valid route via Redhill?

I am questioning whether one of those allowed route would be Reading-Guildford-Redhill-Coulsedon South-London. If this is allowed, it means you could travel as far as Redhill on the direct Reading-Gatwick train using your season ticket, and then only need to buy a ticket from Redhill-Gatwick.

Thanks very much for the links and info higthomas. The is exactly one of the ticket queries I have but don't know enough about how all the routes works and where the stations lie in the whole system. Would love a confirmation.

 

[higthomas]

Thanks talldave. So I can use this ticket on the direct train from Reading to Gatwick on the North Down line? The Gatwick Express doesn't go from Reading as far as I'm aware.

If I can avoid going back into London and not pay £20 from RDG, great.

No, you can't. The Boundary Zone 6-Gatwick ticket, is only valid from the boundry of zone six to Gatwick, which in your case is from just South of Coulesdon South-Redhill-Gatwick(as you can tell by looking at the map I linked.)
So if you were to use this ticket, you would have to go via London, and hence could use Gatwick express, which as you point out only goes from London Victoria. Unless I am right, which I'm pretty sure I am, this will likely be the cheapest ticket, but would require going via London.

Thanks very much for the links and info higthomas. The is exactly one of the ticket queries I have but don't know enough about how all the routes works and where the stations lie in the whole system. Would love a confirmation.

You're welcome. But one thing to bear in mind is that if this is right, you may be questioned by a guard, so make sure you are able to say why it's valid. (If it does turn out to be)

 

[leymoo]

No, you can't. The Boundary Zone 6-Gatwick ticket, is only valid from the boundry of zone six to Gatwick, which in your case is from just South of Coulesdon South-Redhill-Gatwick(as you can tell by looking at the map I linked.)
So if you were to use this ticket, you would have to go via London, and hence could use Gatwick express, which as you point out only goes from London Victoria. Unless I am right, which I'm pretty sure I am, this will likely be the cheapest ticket, but would require going via London.

You're welcome. But one thing to bear in mind is that if this is right, you may be questioned by a guard, so make sure you are able to say why it's valid. (If it does turn out to be)

I don't think this is correct. He holds a season Reading London Z 1-6 travelcard. This is valid for valid routes to any stations in Zones 1 to 6. I used to used to go via Redhill to get to East Croydon on a travelcard from Reading, and the ticket was valid.

So stopping your journey short at Redhill and obtaining a single from Redhill to Gatwick is valid for your route. There are others stating that a boundary Z6 to Gatwick will allow more flexible route options - they are correct.

 

[yorkie]

Do you want a hassle free journey or do you want to assert your rights?

 

[CyrusWuff]

For a hassle free journey, I would concur that a Reading - London Zones 1-6 Travelcard is only valid as far as Wokingham on the direct services between Reading and Gatwick Airport.

Whilst you could argue that it's valid to Redhill as part of a journey to Coulsdon South, the counter argument that the TOCs would use would be along the lines of Coulsdon South not being on the line of route between Reading and London (i.e. to Paddington or Waterloo, or one of the other ex-Southern Region terminals with a change of train).

 

[Paul Kelly]

the counter argument that the TOCs would use would be along the lines of Coulsdon South not being on the line of route between Reading and London (i.e. to Paddington or Waterloo, or one of the other ex-Southern Region terminals with a change of train).

I seem to remember reading that many years ago there were through services from Reading to London Bridge via Redhill, and that even now the mileage on the line the whole way out to Reading is still measured from Charing Cross via Redhill - could be a good counter-counter argument if true!

 

[LexyBoy]

Whilst you could argue that it's valid to Redhill as part of a journey to Coulsdon South, the counter argument that the TOCs would use would be along the lines of Coulsdon South not being on the line of route between Reading and London (i.e. to Paddington or Waterloo, or one of the other ex-Southern Region terminals with a change of train).

The counter argument to that is that the OP does not hold a Reading-London ticket.

Practically speaking, guards on the NDL are pretty laid-back in my experience, and I would expect to have a Travelcard accepted with the explanation that it's a valid route to Croydon. The worst that's likely to happen is a new ticket from Wokingham if they absolutely refuse to accept it. FGW would then eventually refund this when pestered enough.

 

[OwlMan]

I seem to remember reading that many years ago there were through services from Reading to London Bridge via Redhill, and that even now the mileage on the line the whole way out to Reading is still measured from Charing Cross via Redhill - could be a good counter-counter argument if true!

As far as I can see it is not a mapped route and is not the shortest route.

 

[leymoo]

Do you want a hassle free journey or do you want to assert your rights?

If it's the same (or similar) staff as 2013/2014, I wouldn't even expect fuss. I've never had a query on this route and I get a lot of queries. The SO had an annual season for Reading to Z1-6 and he did the same thing.

Redhill is a valid route (not only valid, but mainstream) to East Croydon from Reading. So stopping short and getting a single from Redhill to gatwick is not controversial at all.

 

[paul1609]

Likewise when travelling from redhill to Guildford on an Ashford to Fareham Season ticket Route Edenbridge/ pollegate the route was never queried by FGW or refused by SWT onwards to Havant.

 

[tsavage]

..... He holds a season Reading London Z 1-6 travelcard. This is valid for valid routes to any stations in Zones 1 to 6. I used to used to go via Redhill to get to East Croydon on a travelcard from Reading, and the ticket was valid.

So stopping your journey short at Redhill and obtaining a single from Redhill to Gatwick is valid for your route. There are others stating that a boundary Z6 to Gatwick will allow more flexible route options - they are correct.

.....Redhill is a valid route (not only valid, but mainstream) to East Croydon from Reading. So stopping short and getting a single from Redhill to gatwick is not controversial at all.

Thank you all for your time adding to the discussion.

While I'm not absolutely 100% convinced, in summary, with my existing Reading & Z1-6 travelcard I have decided I will take the North Down Line from Reading and buy a BZ6 to Gatwick ticket at the ticket office tonight (which validates my train leg from Redhill/East Croydon/Coulsdon South to Gatwick).

For whatever reason it becomes too difficult, as a backup I can buy a Redhill to Gatwick single ticket online if need be but it won't be as flexible as the BZ6 to GTW ticket.

I will report back and let you know how it goes or if anything eventuates. Hopefully I remember all the technicalities if I do happen to be queried.

Do you want a hassle free journey or do you want to assert your rights?

Happy to assert my rights (though being reasonably unfamiliar and relatively new to the rail network here I may not be "too" assertive), but for me this route may become more frequent if it's smooth enough for hopefully the next few times I need to fly out of Gatwick for holidays and need to leave from work

Thanks again all,
Sav.

 

[tsavage]

Hi All.

Just reporting back.

Uneventful trip as I wasn't checked on the Reading to Gatwick leg via Redhill (probably as it was packed to capacity). So it did work but I wasn't needed to argue the legitimacy of the ticket if it was put into question.

I will try it again for next time.

Have a lovely day.

Sav.

 

[JamesRowden]

Today I planned to use the Reading to Z1-6 travelcard to travel from Reading to Caterham via Redhill and Purley by catching the 08:34 Reading to Gatwick service. I couldn't buy the off-peak travelcard from the ticket machines (obviously to stop people using such tickets on peak services to Paddington). I then went to the ticket office where the member of staff asked which train I was catching. I told her that I was travelling to Caterham via Redhill. She said that her machine was not showing the travelcard as valid on that route. I told her that it was valid since it was a permitted route to the Zone 6 boundary, and that the Southeastern website had offered the travelcard for the journey. She walked to the side of the ticket office, a man came back with her, and he told me that the ticket was not valid since there are no through trains between Reading and London via Redhill (which is quite obviously a false explanation since through trains are not the only way that a route is valid). I then told them that I would get the 08:42 Waterloo service (since I could tell that the argument was going nowhere and that it would take too long to show them [on my phone] the proof that the route was valid) and I was sold the ticket. The 08:34 train then departed as I approached the platforms and I caught the 08:42 service and was subsequently caught up in 40 minute delays between Clapham Junction and East Croydon. Perhaps I should have just told them that I was travelling via Wokingham and I would have got the ticket in time to travel via Redhill. But it seems although the machine that the ticket staff use either incorrectly doesn't show via Redhill as a permitted route or that the staff don't know how to use it properly (or that there is some sort of negative easement that the Southeastern website does not consider).

 

[miami]

Rail staff not knowing their own rules? Shocking, SHOCKING.

 

[flash]

Rail staff not knowing their own rules? Shocking, SHOCKING.

Given that there is 2 pages of debate amongst 'interested' people with no definite consensus - I don't find it surprising that rail staff are unsure / unaware of 'their own rules', after all its not their hobby ...... probably more like their 'bête noir'

 

[bb21]

While I know that there is a document somewhere from ATOC who somehow defined the validity as being from the origin to any boundary station plus anything inside the zones, this is pretty much illogical imo, as a Travelcard is essentially an add-on product tagged onto a point-to-point ticket, but I won't get into an argument regarding such validity given that NRE is currently using this interpretation so will just accept that as things currently stand, what you are doing is permitted.

But I can totally understand where this member of staff is coming from. This one is hardly level par with some of the other showings.

 

[furlong]

a Travelcard is essentially an add-on product tagged onto a point-to-point ticket

Well the documents consistently seem to work on the basis that an Out-Boundary travelcard is an ordinary Travelcard with one return journey to the boundary of the zonal area added on.

For example, from the Travelcard agreement (1995):

Out-Boundary Ticket shall mean a ticket issued by an Operator to a passenger for a journey on Railway Services outside the Zones which includes a Travelcard to be used in conjunction with the relevant journey on Railway Services;

 

[bb21]

Yes, but that does not mean you would be free to choose any boundary station you like, or forbid it. It is simply very poorly defined.

We have been through this before so I am not getting into another discussion. I accept that the way things are worded atm (poorly imo), it appears to allow that choice, but I am of the opinion that this free choice of boundary station with no other constraint is completely illogical, for several reasons, some of which not directly relevant to the travelling public.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Logically it should be valid by any permitted route to your chosen station within the Zones.

 

[FenMan]

Logically it should be valid by any permitted route to your chosen station within the Zones.

I would finesse that slightly by saying travel should be valid by any permitted route from the originating station to a Zone 6 boundary station without crossing into the Zones elsewhere.

E.g. from my home station, Blackwater (and when using an any permitted ticket) there are permitted routes to these Z6 boundary stations:

West Drayton (via Reading) - 36.2 miles
Feltham (via Wokingham) - 28.7 miles
Surbiton (via Guildford) - 30.2 miles
Ewell East (ditto) - 30.5 miles
Ewell West (ditto) - 30.2 miles
Coulsdon South (via Redhill) - 38.5 miles

All qualify by dint of being the shortest routes.