Realtime Trains and Engineering Works

[gord]

In two weeks time, electrification works will be closing a section of line around Dunblane in Scotland. I started a thread about this in the ticketing section as it left me with an issue with some advance tickets that I had, which (i hope!) have now been resolved, but it has left me interested in how timetables are worked out when engineering works are announced.

Like most on here, I use Realtime Trains. Scotrail have already sorted how they will run around the blockade and this is now reflected in the timetables for that week. However, I've been keeping an eye on other services that are due to run through the area on Realtime Trains. With just two weeks to go, the Caledonian Sleeper services have only in the last few days been updated to show a diversion and the LNER services are still showing that they are timed to stop at Stirling.

Of course, even before it's updated, it's pretty likely that the LNER services will be diverted too. When I tweeted them, they said they have a plan in place and expect little impact to their services. However, my question is, why is it taking longer for some services to show as diverted or replaced in the national timetable data than others? It seems strange that so close to a planned blockade of this nature that all the details are still not worked out.

Is it a case of putting some data into a computer and letting it work out the new timetables or are there in depth negotiations between the train operating companies and network rail? I work in public transport and part of my job can involve allocating vehicles and managing timetables, so now I've got my own ticket issue sorted, it just left me interested about how the railways manage these situations.

 

[Muzer]

Because Network Rail's timetable planning department are massively overworked and understaffed right now, and so timetable changes for engineering works aren't being produced in time for the industry standard notice period of twelve weeks. They're currently aiming for six weeks but they're failing to achieve even that in many cases. A little while back South Western Railway engineering works timetables were being put in the system one or two *days* before!

And yes, Network Rail and TOCs have to work together - Network Rail specifies the engineering works they want to do, the TOCs specify in general detail what sort of service they want to run (they're the ones who know the logistics of train crew and rolling stock allocations), and Network Rail work out the specifics to minimise conflicts (eg two trains trying to cross each other's paths at junctions ideally shouldn't be in the timetable as it'll inevitably mean one will be delayed).

 

[gord]

Because Network Rail's timetable planning department are massively overworked and understaffed right now, and so timetable changes for engineering works aren't being produced in time for the industry standard notice period of twelve weeks. They're currently aiming for six weeks but they're failing to achieve even that in many cases. A little while back South Western Railway engineering works timetables were being put in the system one or two *days* before!

And yes, Network Rail and TOCs have to work together - Network Rail specifies the engineering works they want to do, the TOCs specify in general detail what sort of service they want to run (they're the ones who know the logistics of train crew and rolling stock allocations), and Network Rail work out the specifics to minimise conflicts (eg two trains trying to cross each other's paths at junctions ideally shouldn't be in the timetable as it'll inevitably mean one will be delayed).

Thank you for your reply. With the amount of improvements happening all around the country right now, your answer makes a lot of sense. There must be some seriously overworked people in Network Rail offices right now. I notice with the Highland Chieftain, it does conflict with an Edinburgh to Perth service on the Ladybank route, in both directions too, so that needs to be carefully planned out.

Thanks again for your answer.

 

[306024]

For the guys and gals that do the short term planning, the one thing they need above everything else is a confirmed long term plan so they’ve something to work with. With all that currently running late they are struggling before they start. This might not become apparent for weeks until things fail to appear in downstream systems such as RTT when they should.

And to make it worse they are trying to do more that one week at a time in order to catch up and return to the proper timescales. Yes busy times indeed.

 

[gord]

At last, the LNER Highland Chieftain is now showing it's diverted routes on Realtime Trains. Which is a relief for me, because I'm booked on it in each direction during that week!

Interestingly, the southbound journey is routed via Dunfermline and the northbound via Burntisland with a bit of padding put into the Perth stop. I assume this is all worked out to avoid conflict with other services, and given that this route is a little bit quicker than the normal route, it gives a bit more freedom on how and where it can pathed.

I think that's all the services worked out around this particular blockade now.

 

[John @ home]

the LNER Highland Chieftain is now showing its diverted routes on Realtime Trains.

I fear that some significant timing changes are still needed prior to gord's northbound journey on Monday 15 October.

At the time of writing, realtimetrains shows 1S16 1200 London Kings X - Inverness 2004 and 1L09 1634 Edinburgh - Perth 1754 both due to depart Edinburgh at 1634. This is possible.

But it then shows both trains occupying the Ladybank Jn - Hilton Jn single track section at the same time: 1S16 from 1727 to 1749 and 1L09 from 1729 to 1749. This is not possible.

 

[gord]

I fear that some significant timing changes are still needed prior to gord's northbound journey on Monday 15 October.

At the time of writing, realtimetrains shows 1S16 1200 London Kings X - Inverness 2004 and 1L09 1634 Edinburgh - Perth 1754 both due to depart Edinburgh at 1634. This is possible.

But it then shows both trains occupying the Ladybank Jn - Hilton Jn single track section at the same time: 1S16 from 1727 to 1749 and 1L09 from 1729 to 1749. This is not possible.

Good spot. I'll let you know where we end up going (or end up waiting maybe) when we go! As long as we end up in Inverness I don't mind being late if needs be. Maybe 1L09 will be adjusted instead. Can really see now what a headache these situations can cause planners.