RealTimeTrains website

[pokemonsuper9]

I disagree here if it replaces ones which use KYT allocations. As from experience the Scotrail and Avanti KYT tend to be 95-99% accurate.

Oh I think there's basically no reason to replace KYT, that's why I put it on c2c for the demo, which isn't (yet?) part of it.

 

[Class15]

I disagree here if it replaces ones which use KYT allocations. As from experience the Scotrail and Avanti KYT tend to be 95-99% accurate.

No, what I meant is for operators which don’t have KYT.

 

[JonathanH]

No, what I meant is for operators which don’t have KYT.

How do you ensure that people don't post incorrect information?

 

[Class15]

How do you ensure that people don't post incorrect information?

Don’t trust it fully. It works on Railcam, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work on RTT. That’s why there would be a message saying it was user - added so not entirely reliable.

 

[Roger B]

How do you ensure that people don't post incorrect information?

Good point.

But reliance on KYT data also sometimes results in incorrect information being shown in RTT.

I have reported an instance of this upthread. This can occur when there's a late change to allocation (eg allocated unit being declared unfit prior to leaving depot, and replaced by another unit), and for whatever reason the relevant systems aren't updated accordingly, and therefore KYT isn't updated and incorrect information is shown in RTT. There may also be other reasons why KYT data is incorrect - eg any data that's manually entered (either directly into KYT, or indirectly via feeder systems) is bound to have some level of error rate, however small - or not so small!

Pretty much the only way for 100% foolproof way of determining identity is with your own eyes! The way it was when I started my railway interest in the mid seventies.

 

[Peter0124]

Pretty much the only way for 100% foolproof way of determining identity is with your own eyes! The way it was when I started my railway interest in the mid seventies.

Even that can be difficult at high speeds!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Even that can be difficult at high speeds!

Especially when passing one train going the other way while on another, I trust KYT enough for my spreadsheet. (especially since without it, I wouldn't have nearly as many Avanti 221s ticked off)

 

[357]

I gather that in the event of late notice unit swaps then RTT may take some time to update, as the systems the industry uses will need to be updated manually. When I was a shunter it wasn't unusual for control to ring and ask us to let them know what units are on a particular train, or ask if we have a particular unit in the depot.

The systems will have to be updated eventually, especially to keep track of milages.

However, if a train is updated, say, 24 hours after its ended it's journey, would RTT (and for me, more importantly) Railmiles also update?

 

[Dai Corner]

How about showing both the allocation from the official feed and that reported by trainspotters, labelled accordingly?

 

[Class15]

How about showing both the allocation from the official feed and that reported by trainspotters, labelled accordingly?

That’s what I meant.

 

[Peter0124]

How about showing both the allocation from the official feed and that reported by trainspotters, labelled accordingly?

That’s what I meant.

As long as the one shown in the KYT diagram (circled yellow) is the official feed as it is likely to be more accurate.

The manually added data should be below were the red arrow points to, and not directly next to the KYT data. This is to avoid confusion between the two at quick glance.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The manually added data should be below were the red arrow points to, and not directly next to the KYT data. This is to avoid confusion between the two at quick glance.

It can't be that hard to go
- Above = KYT
- Below = User
I'd much rather just have to look in one place than two depending on what TOC I'm looking at.

 

[50002Superb]

I think this would be an incredible addition if possible

 

[Tom]

I don't think it's likely that we'll allow user contributed allocations primarily for the need to moderate and maintain data validation which we, as a business, don't have time to do. I've said before that I'd rather have it from the horses mouth - as if that is wrong there is a far greater incentive to tell the operator to fix it (as it affects their own business as well).

However, if a train is updated, say, 24 hours after its ended it's journey, would RTT (and for me, more importantly) Railmiles also update?

RTT will, RailMiles might depending on a few different circumstances. If you put a journey in on auto-update and don't enter any allocations, I think it'll generally update it when it autocompletes your journey data.

 

[M60lad]

Is there a reason why Realtime Trains can't show Transport for Wales allocations for their CAF City 197s and is there any plans to do so as it shows allocations for all other TFW services?

 

[berneyarms]

Is there a reason why Realtime Trains can't show Transport for Wales allocations for their CAF City 197s and is there any plans to do so as it shows allocations for all other TFW services?

It does show them, but you need to look at the train information panel in the detailed search.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Is there a reason why Realtime Trains can't show Transport for Wales allocations for their CAF City 197s and is there any plans to do so as it shows allocations for all other TFW services?

They do, just press see detailed information in the detailed view and it tells you the number. The graphic is not there yet, but I would imagine it to be added once most of the new fleet is in service.

 

[Freightmaster]

They do, just press see detailed information in the detailed view and it tells you the number. The graphic is not there yet, but I would imagine it to be added once most of the new fleet is in service.

I think it's the same situation for the class 231s, too?




MARK

 

[Class15]

I don't think it's likely that we'll allow user contributed allocations primarily for the need to moderate and maintain data validation which we, as a business, don't have time to do. I've said before that I'd rather have it from the horses mouth - as if that is wrong there is a far greater incentive to tell the operator to fix it (as it affects their own business as well).


RTT will, RailMiles might depending on a few different circumstances. If you put a journey in on auto-update and don't enter any allocations, I think it'll generally update it when it autocompletes your journey data.

But this suggestion was for operators which don’t have allocations already. User added allocations are better than nothing.

 

[Tom]

I disagree, because it has the potential to reduce the trustworthiness of the system as a whole.

Plus, by allowing user allocations it reduces the desire for the other operators to participate because they will take a view of not needing to rather than FOMO.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I think it's the same situation for the class 231s, too?

It's common for every new class, including TfW's 197, 230 and 231 and their 67 and MK4s.

 

[Class15]

I disagree, because it has the potential to reduce the trustworthiness of the system as a whole.

Plus, by allowing user allocations it reduces the desire for the other operators to participate because they will take a view of not needing to rather than FOMO.

I recommended it because this feature works well on other websites, and it would make people know what to see.

 

[zwk500]

I recommended it because this feature works well on other websites, and it would make people know what to see.

RTT has many uses other than for spotters. I personally would not want the core product (the train times) potentially diluted by trust issues caused by fringe concerns for enthusiasts.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

RTT has many uses other than for spotters. I personally would not want the core product (the train times) potentially diluted by trust issues caused by fringe concerns for enthusiasts.

Non spotters probably won't care about some random numbers in a small box, if they're using detailed mode at all.

 

[ainsworth74]

I recommended it because this feature works well on other websites, and it would make people know what to see.

I think @Tom has given his final answer on this topic so whilst your persistence is admirable I'm not sure it will yield any change in answer

 

[zwk500]

Non spotters probably won't care about some random numbers in a small box, if they're using detailed mode at all.

Still not a good enough reason to 1. Massively increase RTT's overheads 2. Increase potential for duff info and 3. Decrease incentive for TOCs to get directly involved because they can let cranks do it for them.

Point 3 is particularly important because the relationship between RTT and NR/TOCs has worked both ways.

 

[Benjwri]

Still not a good enough reason to 1. Massively increase RTT's overheads 2. Increase potential for duff info and 3. Decrease incentive for TOCs to get directly involved because they can let cranks do it for them.

Point 3 is particularly important because the relationship between RTT and NR/TOCs has worked both ways.

Point 2 is also important. For a TOC with KYT what benefit does this actually bring?

As mentioned above it’s sourced from TOC systems, and it’s usually only wrong when there’s a last minute change. The chances of that actually happening, not getting inputed, but a spotter seeing it are very low. It also falls apart as soon as there’s any splitting or unit swaps.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Still not a good enough reason to 1. Massively increase RTT's overheads 2. Increase potential for duff info and 3. Decrease incentive for TOCs to get directly involved because they can let cranks do it for them.

Point 3 is particularly important because the relationship between RTT and NR/TOCs has worked both ways.

Yes Point 3 is definitely important here. People adding them wouldn't be as through as TOC supported KYT is either.

 

[Class15]

I think @Tom has given his final answer on this topic so whilst your persistence is admirable I'm not sure it will yield any change in answer

If he decides he doesn’t want people to use this website (a lot of people I know feel the same about this) then sure, but a good few people will be coughing up the £4 a month for Railcam instead.

 

[Benjwri]

If he decides he doesn’t want people to use this website (a lot of people I know feel the same about this) then sure, but a good few people will be coughing up the £4 a month for Railcam instead.

I’m sure they’re more than welcome to, but for anyone spotting passenger trains they’re still likely going to have to use RTT too, since relatively few of those have allocations and where they do detail isn’t given on splits and joins.