RealTimeTrains website

[31160]

Couldn't do without it.

Yep it certainly makes live a good deal easier to predict, hopefully the TOCs that haven't joined the "know my train" thing may still sign up, if SWR can do it nobody else has an excuse

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yep it certainly makes live a good deal easier to predict, hopefully the TOCs that haven't joined the "know my train" thing may still sign up, if SWR can do it nobody else has an excuse

I fully agree, although there is at least one MD who is known to be totally opposed to their TOC being on it.

 

[Class15]

Couldn't do without it.

I can usually can do without it, as someone more interested in freight, but I still occasionally use RTT for passenger unit numbers for its specific TOCs supported.

 

[tfw756rider]

I fully agree, although there is at least one MD who is known to be totally opposed to their TOC being on it.

Is one of them (self-removed MD) of (self-removed TOC)? (please forgive me if I got that completely wrong) and do you know who the others (if any) are?

Yep it certainly makes live a good deal easier to predict, hopefully the TOCs that haven't joined the "know my train" thing may still sign up, if SWR can do it nobody else has an excuse

It's great that 17 of the National Rail passenger Train Operating Companies (TOCs) - Avanti West Coast, c2c, Caledonian Sleeper, Chiltern Railways, CrossCountry, East Midlands Railway, Grand Central, Great Western Railway, Greater Anglia (including Stansted Express), Hull Trains, Lumo, London North Eastern Railway, Northern Trains, ScotRail, South Western Railway (including Island Line), TransPennine Express, and (last but not least) Transport for Wales Rail - participate in Know Your Train; I appreciate that they do.

There are still 8 that don't - Arriva Rail London (London Overground), Elizabeth line, Eurostar, Govia Thameslink Railway (Gatwick Express, Great Northern, Southern and Thameslink), Heathrow Express, Merseyrail, Southeastern and West Midlands Trains (London Northwestern Railway and West Midlands Railway).

(self-removed TOC - as self-removed brand) actually told me in late 2023 that they may join in the future when they're in a better position to do so (they were more specific than that, but I'm respecting that it was on Direct Messages).

A TOC having a legitimate reason for not (or not yet) joining is one thing (and I appreciate that it's not something they have to do), but being against joining for no good reason is another, and the TOCs that do that (whoever they are) kind-of bother me.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

...and do you know who the others (if any) are?

Not the one I had in mind, but it might not be an idea to name them openly as it might mess up any behind the scenes persuasion negotiations that we would rightly not be privy to? I mentioned it only as an example of why some TOCs are not yet participating.

 

[Falcon1200]

I have to wonder what justification or reasoning there is for not participating in Know Your Train; After all, every train of every TOC is, when in passenger service (and often when not), fully in public view!

 

[CyrusWuff]

London Overground formations don't appear on TRUST either, so I'd guess it would be harder for them to feed into Know Your Train as well.

 

[spyinthesky]

I have to wonder what justification or reasoning there is for not participating in Know Your Train; After all, every train of every TOC is, when in passenger service (and often when not), fully in public view!

On the other hand, what is the justification or reasoning for participating in the eyes of the TOC.

 

[Falcon1200]

On the other hand, what is the justification or reasoning for participating in the eyes of the TOC.

Because it is extremely helpful to the passenger/customer!

 

[Dai Corner]

Because it is extremely helpful to the passenger/customer!

I don't think 'normals' care what colour their train is or what sticky numbers are on the side. They do care how long it is, especially if it's short-formed, but this is shown on most displays at stations.

I wonder what GBR will do?

 

[1D54]

I wonder what GBR will do?

I sincerely hope it doesn't disappear but there is surely no reason for that to happen unless others could think of a reason.

 

[Tom]

I don't think 'normals' care what colour their train is or what sticky numbers are on the side. They do care how long it is, especially if it's short-formed, but this is shown on most displays at stations.

I wonder what GBR will do?

I've done enough market research on this to know that infrequent normals do care about a lot of what is shown in KYT. Sticky digits are a helpful 'requirement' to be able to do that.

Besides, 'normals' is such a wide range of things. Anything from someone who has never stepped on a train before to a regular commuter. Regular commuters do not care about a lot of it, I will agree. But leisure travel is here and feeding a huge amount of revenue - and that is where its benefit is.

My personal use case was getting fed up with hitting 170s without plug sockets on the Highland Main Line years ago, you never knew if you were going to get one and therefore I wanted to manage my own expectations.

I sincerely hope it doesn't disappear but there is surely no reason for that to happen unless others could think of a reason.

I've had enough conversations with people in power to not have any particular worry about the longevity of anyone being able to do something similar if RTT were to go away.

On the other hand, what is the justification or reasoning for participating in the eyes of the TOC.

Gets more information out there, gives TOCs easier to access data (yes, we feed some back to the operators), and we don't charge a penny for that basic task for them?

 

[Dai Corner]

I've done enough market research on this to know that infrequent normals do care about a lot of what is shown in KYT. Sticky digits are a helpful 'requirement' to be able to do that.

Besides, 'normals' is such a wide range of things. Anything from someone who has never stepped on a train before to a regular commuter. Regular commuters do not care about a lot of it, I will agree. But leisure travel is here and feeding a huge amount of revenue - and that is where its benefit is.

My personal use case was getting fed up with hitting 170s without plug sockets on the Highland Main Line years ago, you never knew if you were going to get one and therefore I wanted to manage my own expectations.

Gets more information out there, gives TOCs easier to access data (yes, we feed some back to the operators), and we don't charge a penny for that basic task for them?

All fair comment. I'm glad the use by ordinary passengers and the professionals helps make RTT possible for us enthusiasts and that you provide the extra stuff that interests us.

I've had enough conversations with people in power to not have any particular worry about the longevity of anyone being able to do something similar if RTT were to go away.

Good to know.

 

[Chiltern006]

I can’t really see why southeastern isn’t on there to be honest, they have formations on TRUST already, plus advertise the type of train on the boards (mainly metro though)

 

[YorksLad12]

My personal use case was getting fed up with hitting 170s without plug sockets on the Highland Main Line years ago, you never knew if you were going to get one and therefore I wanted to manage my own expectations.

This is how all great inventions come about. Mine being decidedly more niche (and not that inventive) than yours

 

[Tom]

This is how all great inventions come about. Mine being decidedly more niche (and not that inventive) than yours

Most things on RTT (and even RailMiles) come about from me being quite annoyed about something and then working out how to build something from it that's a bit more useful than just purely my problem...

 

[Tony2]

Speaking as a part time normal and part time enthusiast here!

I’ve never looked at a station arrivals/departure board since RTT came along. Trying to find one with the information required is bad enough, then battling through crowds at Euston or Waterloo for example to read the boards, waiting for screens to change so you can check if your train is stopping at an intermediate station etc.

At Kings Cross departures are only platformed very soon before departure, so I’m usually on the train in an empty carriage before the crowds arrive.

There are so many advantages of RTT. Combine with Traksy at an unfamiliar station and you can plan which side to get off, and how to make platform transfers easily without hunting for signs obscured by platform clutter.

The most savvy of travellers may come to eventually realise that those sticky numbers are a very good double check to ensure you are on the right train, especially when a few for differing destinations are positioned uncoupled in a platform, with doors unlocked but no driver so no destinations yet set.

Thanks as ever to Tom and the team for their hard work.

 

[50002Superb]

I've done enough market research on this to know that infrequent normals do care about a lot of what is shown in KYT. Sticky digits are a helpful 'requirement' to be able to do that.

Besides, 'normals' is such a wide range of things. Anything from someone who has never stepped on a train before to a regular commuter. Regular commuters do not care about a lot of it, I will agree. But leisure travel is here and feeding a huge amount of revenue - and that is where its benefit is.

My personal use case was getting fed up with hitting 170s without plug sockets on the Highland Main Line years ago, you never knew if you were going to get one and therefore I wanted to manage my own expectations.


I've had enough conversations with people in power to not have any particular worry about the longevity of anyone being able to do something similar if RTT were to go away.


Gets more information out there, gives TOCs easier to access data (yes, we feed some back to the operators), and we don't charge a penny for that basic task for them?

I think I’m right in saying that it’s popular with some TOC employees as well as they tend, for some TOCs, to get better information via RTT than their own employers

 

[spyinthesky]

Because it is extremely helpful to the passenger/customer!

But that is in the eyes of the customer!

It is a great resource in my eyes and I also wish that all were involved but it is obvious that some TOC’s think that the information given at stations is enough help

 

[Robski]

Network Rail intend to publish GEMINI data as open data through Rail Data Marketplace imminently, which may mean that unit allocations for most operators will become publicly accessible.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Network Rail intend to publish GEMINI data as open data through Rail Data Marketplace imminently, which may mean that unit allocations for most operators will become publicly accessible.

Ooh.... that's interesting.... do we know the date this is supposed to happen?

 

[Class15]

Network Rail intend to publish GEMINI data as open data through Rail Data Marketplace imminently, which may mean that unit allocations for most operators will become publicly accessible.

I don’t suppose this includes FOCs as well?

 

[Rhysdabeast]

Ooh.... that's interesting.... do we know the date this is supposed to happen?

In the February edition of the RDM Newsletter it was said that it was hoped to be published this Quarter. I've been checking every few days for any updates but nothing has been published yet.

 

[Tom]

The fascinating thing to me about the GEMINI data is that Network Rail must have (a) fixed the legal issues around their use of it, they have access to it but only for their own internal use as they don't own it (in the slightest) and (b) got all the TOCs to agree to it - even those vehemently against doing things outside their channels.

I don’t suppose this includes FOCs as well?

No. Gemini is only for passenger operators and not all of them either.

 

[357]

I think I’m right in saying that it’s popular with some TOC employees as well as they tend, for some TOCs, to get better information via RTT than their own employers

I'm a driver and use RTT on a daily basis. I find updated unit allocations show on RTT before the do on certain internal systems, and it's easier to find the information as the website is more user friendly

 

[duffield]

I don't think 'normals' care what colour their train is or what sticky numbers are on the side. They do care how long it is, especially if it's short-formed, but this is shown on most displays at stations.

I wonder what GBR will do?

I agree about the colour and the unit numbers etc., but the formation data in RTT is more useful than the station displays for "normals".

Particularly for those passengers with reduced mobility, knowing in advance roughly where your reserved coach is is very helpful, and the station displays will typically only show the formation for the next service, not the following one, so if you use them, you may only have a few minutes to position yourself correctly, which is not at all good if it's a 10 coach train and you really need your reserved seat.

Using the train formation information from RTT KYT you can position yourself at roughly the right place on the platform with plenty of time to spare and save a lot of stress.

 

[DavidGrain]

I can say speaking as passenger, rather than as a rail enthusiast, the only time I have found the unit allocations of interest was the time I spotted that Cross Country had a 4 car voyager on the Oxford to Birmingham route and I thought 'Oh Hell!'. I and my sister managed to get seats but the train was absolutely rammed.

As a rail enthusiast I would have been interested to know which WMR trains were 172s and which were the new 196s but that info was not available.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I agree about the colour and the unit numbers etc., but the formation data in RTT is more useful than the station displays for "normals".

Particularly for those passengers with reduced mobility, knowing in advance roughly where your reserved coach is is very helpful, and the station displays will typically only show the formation for the next service, not the following one, so if you use them, you may only have a few minutes to position yourself correctly, which is not at all good if it's a 10 coach train and you really need your reserved seat.

Using the train formation information from RTT KYT you can position yourself at roughly the right place on the platform with plenty of time to spare and save a lot of stress.

Doesn't always show the correct formation, for instance GWR IETs in reverse formation (which happens more often than not) or a pair of 158s on Cardiff to Portsmouth services (the latter for example, on one occasion last week was showing A-B/A-B when in reality it was B-A/A-B, and no it wasn't anything to do with the reversal at Bristol).

But that, to me, is minimal and not worth losing sleep over. RTT is an absolute godsend, always has been and always will be!

 

[chrisjo]

Doesn't always show the correct formation, for instance GWR IETs in reverse formation

Doesn't always show the correct unit numbers for GWR IETS either, but that's not down to RTT. Someone at GWR inputs the numbers wrong, and most times you can see it's a couple of digits transposed or some such silly mistake.

 

[Iskra]

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