Recreating lost train types

[pdeaves]

In this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-210-driving-motor.212311/ there is some discussion about recreating a class 210 for preservation out of bits from other classes.

Have to admit I'm surprised that some mad-man (or woman) hasn't come up with a crackpot scheme to recreate the 210 using a soon-to-be scrapped Cl 317 or 455 as the base.......

In a similar, though more extreme, vein there is a class 23 under construction from a class 37 body and other parts, and the LMS 10000 from a class 58 and other bits.

What items could be 'easily' recreated that were lost to preservation? I personally would like to see a class 13 reconstructed from a couple of class 08s, if for no other reason than it looks interesting to me!

 

[WesternLancer]

In this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-210-driving-motor.212311/ there is some discussion about recreating a class 210 for preservation out of bits from other classes.

In a similar, though more extreme, vein there is a class 23 under construction from a class 37 body and other parts, and the LMS 10000 from a class 58 and other bits.

What items could be 'easily' recreated that were lost to preservation? I personally would like to see a class 13 reconstructed from a couple of class 08s, if for no other reason than it looks interesting to me!

A class 13 would be a good call actually - and presumably not the most challenging of things to re-create.

BUT - surely the thing to then recreate would be a full hump yard as a preservation centre, to use it on!

 

[Cowley]

In this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-210-driving-motor.212311/ there is some discussion about recreating a class 210 for preservation out of bits from other classes.

In a similar, though more extreme, vein there is a class 23 under construction from a class 37 body and other parts, and the LMS 10000 from a class 58 and other bits.

What items could be 'easily' recreated that were lost to preservation? I personally would like to see a class 13 reconstructed from a couple of class 08s, if for no other reason than it looks interesting to me!

I’ve always thought that an original Mirrlees engined class 30 would make quite an interesting project (if I’m spending someone else’s money). I think a converted Skinhead in as original condition as possible (are there any unrefurbished ones left?) would be quite a crowd puller at galas.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I think a full recreation of the 1930's "Cornish Riviera Express" - King hauled with several slip portions , full dining and an ample supply of "GWR" Parr's whisky is a far more attractive option than a random early scrapped diesel that would appeal to a miniscule group of enthusiasts.

Even a Deeley Compound with a train of (gas lit) Bain clerestories (diner included) out of St Pancras to Glasgow via of course the S&C , and to compensate a couple of typically filthy LMS suburban trains of say 1946 to show why people bought cars as soon as they could.

I like the idea of a hump yard , also need a 1930's freight yard , stocked with a number of clerks using pencils for the copious paperwork.

 

[Richard Scott]

How about a 48, believe 47117 is the one at the Great Central, which was a 48? Not sure they would want their loco messed about with though? Know there's a 68000 in service still with SNCF with same engine in, not sure if any others survive?

 

[Cowley]

I think a full recreation of the 1930's "Cornish Riviera Express" - King hauled with several slip portions , full dining and an ample supply of "GWR" Parr's whisky is a far more attractive option than a random early scrapped diesel that would appeal to a miniscule group of enthusiasts.

Even a Deeley Compound with a train of (gas lit) Bain clerestories (diner included) out of St Pancras to Glasgow via of course the S&C , and to compensate a couple of typically filthy LMS suburban trains of say 1946 to show why people bought cars as soon as they could.

I like the idea of a hump yard , also need a 1930's freight yard , stocked with a number of clerks using pencils for the copious paperwork.

You see you’ve the authority to make plans like that.
Me? I know my place...

 

[ChiefPlanner]

You see you’ve the authority to make plans like that.
Me? I know my place...

Not any more - actually could never have winged that. I did suggest the LNW coal tank to run Willesden to Watford in 1997 to celebrate 80 years of the Premier Line (the DC) and a 150 years of the St Albans line to no avail. The train crews were more than keen , those senior to me were not. .

 

[Ashley Hill]

How difficult would it be to turn a 47 into D0260 Lion,if only cosmetically?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

A class 13 would be a good call actually - and presumably not the most challenging of things to re-create.

BUT - surely the thing to then recreate would be a full hump yard as a preservation centre, to use it on!

Slightly off-topic here, but it always surprised me that the 13s were set up in the way they were, with the cab removed from the slave units- based on how class 20s were usually paired nose-to-nose I'd have thought that would have been a more flexible orientation for the "super 08s", to allow a driver a better field of vision regardless of direction.

Though I don't know the first thing about locomotive design, so retaining both cabs may have made the conversion way more complicated.

 

[Spartacus]

Slightly off-topic here, but it always surprised me that the 13s were set up in the way they were, with the cab removed from the slave units- based on how class 20s were usually paired nose-to-nose I'd have thought that would have been a more flexible orientation for the "super 08s", to allow a driver a better field of vision regardless of direction.

Though I don't know the first thing about locomotive design, so retaining both cabs may have made the conversion way more complicated.

I know originally they were set up cab to cab, almost like a diesel double fairlie, so the second cab would only have been a hindrance, and they were only later modified to work nose to cab due to visibility issues causing a few incidents. I guess once the cab was removed there was no going back without not inconsiderable expense, and I suppose it would only normally have been used by a shunter anyway, so not even worth considering at the time.

 

[xotGD]

You could convert a Deltic into a replica of DP2.

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

You could convert a Deltic into a replica of DP2.

Brave.
Pat

 

[Ashley Hill]

The Project 22 wasn't mentioned in the OP. I take it they're still active. The replica will fill a gap in diesel preservation.

 

[Richard Scott]

You could convert a Deltic into a replica of DP2.

Does the original engine still exist? Believe it was in 50023, so did it die with that loco?

 

[Cowley]

Does the original engine still exist? Believe it was in 50023, so did it die with that loco?

There’s so many different opinions on which loco it ended up in. I seem to remember it being in 50016 for a while in the 80s but I’ve also heard other class members mentioned.
DP2 was built with a far stronger centre section than a Deltic. The weight of the engine would bend a standard Deltic in all the wrong places.
Still love to see it though if those issues could be overcome...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

You could convert a Deltic into a replica of DP2.

It would be easier to get away with converting a 50 to do that wouldn't it? DP2 was basically a class 50 interior in a class 55 bodyshell - and with the 50 style vents in the side. There's also a lot more 50s surviving.

 

[Ashley Hill]

It would be easier to get away with converting a 50 to do that wouldn't it? DP2 was basically a class 50 interior in a class 55 bodyshell - and with the 50 style vents in the side. There's also a lot more 50s surviving.

An interesting use for the two DPS cabs!

 

[Journeyman]

I genuinely think a 210 would be recreate-able, with some effort. An original driving trailer still exists, and the other cars could be created out of some major surgery on a 317.

I think a North British Type 2, whether that be the hydraulic or electric transmission variant, would be a great thing to recreate - these are a big gap in preservation.

What about loco-hauled coaches? You could bolt a lot of interesting designs onto existing underframes. Any significant types missing from heritage collections?

 

[broadgage]

My favourite would be a re-created Bullied tavern car, as used on the southern back in the good old days.
It would be a splendid addition to a charter train, or for daily use on a larger heritage line. Preferably named "THE BROADGAGE TAVERN"

 

[Taunton]

I think a full recreation of the 1930's "Cornish Riviera Express" - King hauled with several slip portions , full dining and an ample supply of "GWR" Parr's whisky is a far more attractive option

Alas the Taunton slip coach off the "Rivvy" was not gangwayed to the rest of the train, so past family members with stories of travelling down from London by it had been unable to take advantage of any of these fine catering facilities.

Probably just as well. Arriving at the house for lunch (which the slip coach apparently perfectly provided, a 1 pm arrival) smelling of whisky is something the bevy of elderly spinster great-aunts would certainly not have approved of.

 

[sprinterguy]

I like the idea of a hump yard , also need a 1930's freight yard , stocked with a number of clerks using pencils for the copious paperwork.

I'd like to volunteer my services for that position! That's the sort of job I can do.

 

[neilmc]

As not a single ex-BR WD 2-8-0 was saved for preservation, I think at least two dozen should be newbuilt from scratch. Then a steam depot should be rebuilt exactly to the old plans, maybe at Hull Dairycoates, West Hartlepool or even Goole. All these WDs could then be dumped in the shed yard to go rusty, thus by a stroke of genius reproducing the BR scene of the 1960s better than any supposed "heritage railway" could ever do, simply by doing nothing, and improving in authenticity year on year by neglect! No need for drivers and firemen, coal, stationmasters, signal boxes, etc - the perfect preservation site for the post-COVID era. Who's going to get the ball rolling and be the first to send me a cheque to meet the engineering costs, which can be done on the cheap and nasty, bearing in mind they won't need to pull any trains.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

An interesting use for the two DPS cabs!

The thought had occurred to me... as long as they could be grafted on without having any weak points at the joins; the last thing we need is a rail mounted cut and shut...

 

[Ashley Hill]

The thought had occurred to me... as long as they could be grafted on without having any weak points at the joins; the last thing we need is a rail mounted cut and shut...

Like the 23/37?
Putting the cabs of 55008/21 on a 50 shell seems speculative in the least.

 

[Spartacus]

Like the 23/37?
Putting the cabs of 55008/21 on a 50 shell seems speculative in the least.

When the body side of a Deltic is curved while a 50 is flat for starters, I think that’s being generous. EE may have standardised a lot, but not that much!

 

[Bigman]

I would love to see a recreation of the original Transpennine DMU sets, including the griddle car. Were any units/coaches ever kept and preserved anywhere? You could run these on short distance return trips over the Pennines, and potentially the S&C, Bentham Line, Calder Valley, Copy Pit, and Newcastle-Carlisle (all Trans-Pennine of course).

 

[WesternLancer]

I would love to see a recreation of the original Transpennine DMU sets, including the griddle car. Were any units/coaches ever kept and preserved anywhere? You could run these on short distance return trips over the Pennines, and potentially the S&C, Bentham Line, Calder Valley, Copy Pit, and Newcastle-Carlisle (all Trans-Pennine of course).

Think they all got scrapped and asbestos problems were involved IIRC. Living in the south at the time I hardly ever saw them but thought they always looked v stylish in the pics I saw in rail magazines etc. Def need the griddle car!

 

[Bigman]

I only ever remember travelling on 1 of them in the late 80's. There used to be Saturday special that ran non-stop from Leeds to Man Vic, so was the only time I ever had a train that didn't stop at Huddersfield.

 

[Pinza-C55]

I'd love to see an NBL "Big 600" Warship recreated. I had a look round D601 "Ark Royal" in Barry Scrapyard in 1979 and it was an impressive machine..

 

[TheBeard]

Sadly there isn't any money or will to remake a 21, it would be a great machine in preservation despite its unreliability in service