Red Diesel

[Daniel Hampson]

Guys, can anybody shed any light on train diesel? Is it the same as car diesel? Whats the difference between Red diesel and normal diesel? I ask because I have heard that the DfT are making it compulsory for someTOCs to change the diesel type by 2010

Just been on the Gau Train....nice livery!!!!

 

[paul1609]

Red Diesel is diesel that has lower tax paid on it that diesel used in road vehicles, it is dyed red to stop people using it in cars, lorries etc. In theory there is no other difference.
However in practice what you buy on the forecourt will be low or ultra low sulphur diesel it may be this that the DFT wants to introduce on the railways.

 

[Daniel Hampson]

Thanks Paul. Just in case anyone is interested I also found this link which seems to explain all

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/consuleupetroldieselreqs/pdfeupetroldiesel.pdf )

 

[Royston Vasey]

Currently red diesel does not need to comply with "low" (50 parts per million) or "ultralow" suphur (10 ppm) and therefore can contain up to ~2000 ppm (0.2% by weight). Red diesel also tends to be of a lower cetane value, which basically is a measure of how efficiently the fuel burns. Train fuel does not have to comply with low sulphur legislation currently, though whether the fuel is literally "red" or just a low grade, I don't know, others may.

The directive you may be referring to may be this (the section regarding rail is pp13-14), which may or may not have been brought into law:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/consuleupetroldieselreqs/pdfeupetroldiesel.pdf

This states that by 31st December 2011, rail equipment should use 10 parts per million (ppm) sulphur diesel, i.e. ULSD. Perhaps this has been brought forward to 2010 as you suggest.

Sulphur levels in fuels affect the amount of sulphur oxides emitted but more importantly the performance of emission control catalysts. Absorber/reduction catalysts for nitrogen oxides (NOx) are poisoned by sulphur, as are diesel oxidation or soot filter catalysts such as those soon to be mandatory in new diesel cars and trucks. Protecting emission control catalysts is the main reason ULSD was introduced.

Currently emission control catalysts are not mandatory for rail engines, however I believe MTU offer an aftertreatment option, though I don't think the new HST engines use them for example.

My point is that the introduction of low sulphur diesel is probably an enabler for the introduction of emission control catalysts in the future, particularly NOx control catalysts. Rail engines will be forced to use these at some point in the not-too-distant future.

Hope that's not gone too far off topic!

 

[Daniel Hampson]

Thanks mate I really appreciate that

 

[rail-britain]

As above, the diesel used in road vehicles and on the railway are quite different

Road vehicles are now using Low Sulphur diesel, however the rail industry is still be supplied with the DERV equivalent

When fuel is supplied from the refinery, for a petrol forecourt, it has the retailers key added to it
For road fuel this includes a detergent and anti-waxing agent
For the railway a different key is used, with no detergent and a seasonal anti-waxing agent

 

[jopsuk]

Red Diesel does have a red dye added to it, to make it easy to check for. It's illeagal to be driving anything other than farm equipment (tractors etc) on public roads with Red Diesel- reason being that the fuel duty is much lower, as a sort of subsidy to farmers.

It is legal to fuel a boat using it; however those who do so and then travel abroad face major problems as it isn't so legal in, say, France, and the authorities do carry out spot checks. I believe the EU is trying to get rid of the stuff entirely under tax harmonisation.

 

[Muttley]

Red Diesel does have a red dye added to it, to make it easy to check for. It's illeagal to be driving anything other than farm equipment (tractors etc) on public roads with Red Diesel- reason being that the fuel duty is much lower, as a sort of subsidy to farmers.

It is legal to fuel a boat using it; however those who do so and then travel abroad face major problems as it isn't so legal in, say, France, and the authorities do carry out spot checks. I believe the EU is trying to get rid of the stuff entirely under tax harmonisation.

Re:the boat thing. Boats used to get discount fuel,ie no/very little fuel duty. But that has since been removed so that owners are now paying top whack. And you imagine how many, or distance between, boat fuelling points-its not a case of driving ten mile to the next towns Tesco to save 5p a ltr.

As to the tax harmonisation, it looks like we`ll be harmonised upwards. I wonder if anything in this country has ever been harmonised downwards ?