Reduced capacity at Wembley stadium due to engineering works - has anything like this happened before?

[kevconnor]

It seems a storm is brewing about the National League play-off final between Oldham Athletic and Southend United on 1st June. Due to engineering works at Wembley Park, there are no Tube services, and as a result, allocation of tickets at Wembley has been reduced to 20000 per team.

A Labour MP has contacted government ministers over the limited number of tickets being sold for the National League play-off final next month.

Southend United said it expected 30,000 of its fans to want tickets for the match against Oldham Athletic on 1 June, but Wembley Stadium has capped the allocation at 20,000 for both clubs.

No London Underground trains are due to stop at Wembley Park station on the day because of planned engineering work.

Southend v Oldham final tickets limit is ridiculous, says MP

Tickets are limited for Southend and Oldham's play-off final as no trains will stop at Wembley Park.

www.bbc.co.uk

I am sure someone can set up a thread if they wish to discuss the merits of this game and travel plans, etc, but this is the first time I can think of a venue reducing its capacity due to engineering works, albeit this time on the Tube. We often hear the stories of engineering works over a weekend when events are on and making it difficult to travel, but this is the first time I can think of an event organiser changing their plans in this way, and was wondering if this has ever happened before? Or even if event dates or locations have been moved before because of the same reason?

 

[Stampy]

Surely fans can use Wembley Stadium Station (on the Chiltern Line) or Wembley Central (on the Bakerloo / Lioness Line)..

I know I've used both of them on a match day at Wembley, and Wembley Central is only about a 10-15 minute walk from Wembley Stadium itself?

 

[The Planner]

Surely fans can use Wembley Stadium Station (on the Chiltern Line) or Wembley Central (on the Bakerloo / Lioness Line)..

I know I've used both of them on a match day at Wembley, and Wembley Central is only about a 10-15 minute walk from Wembley Stadium itself?

Wembley Park takes the vast majority of people to and from the stadium.

 

[zwk500]

I am sure someone can set up a thread if they wish to discuss the merits of this game and travel plans, etc, but this is the first time I can think of a venue reducing its capacity due to engineering works, albeit this time on the Tube. We often hear the stories of engineering works over a weekend when events are on and making it difficult to travel, but this is the first time I can think of an event organiser changing their plans in this way, and was wondering if this has ever happened before? Or even if event dates or locations have been moved before because of the same reason?

A rugby union premiership game at Twickenham (80,000 capacity) was moved outright a couple of years ago for rail strikes. Usually big games are organised sufficiently far out that the engineering works can be planned with them in mind, although sometimes the reverse has happened and Engineering pulled for matches: https://chiswickcalendar.co.uk/network-rail-moving-engineering-works-for-army-v-navy-rugby-match/

I have it in the back of my mind that one game or another at Twickenham has either been held off confirming the date or rejected by the ground recently because of concerns about engineering works. Twickenham is particularly sensitive to engineering works as it's only really got one line serving it, although the District and Overground from Richmond help.

 

[800001]

Do these venues not get the engineering work dates with them? Seems poor If not.

 

[The Planner]

A rugby union premiership game at Twickenham (80,000 capacity) was moved outright a couple of years ago for rail strikes. Usually big games are organised sufficiently far out that the engineering works can be planned with them in mind, although sometimes the reverse has happened and Engineering pulled for matches: https://chiswickcalendar.co.uk/network-rail-moving-engineering-works-for-army-v-navy-rugby-match/

I have it in the back of my mind that one game or another at Twickenham has either been held off confirming the date or rejected by the ground recently because of concerns about engineering works. Twickenham is particularly sensitive to engineering works as it's only really got one line serving it, although the District and Overground from Richmond help.

Only big matches such as Six nations, FA cup final and EFL playoffs are considered as they normally are the same weekends each year. People don't understand that ex-league clubs will still travel in numbers to a National League final. 47000 is the record.

Do these venues not get the engineering work dates with them? Seems poor If not.

Yes, NR/TOCs work with Wembley, Twickenham, the FA etc

 

[Hadders]

I wouldn’t expect a National League play off match to reach anything like a capacity crowd at Wembley Stadium.

What have the attendances been in previous years? I’m guessing not more than 40,000.

 

[Wolfie]

I wouldn’t expect a National League play off match to reach anything like a capacity crowd at Wembley Stadium.

What have the attendances been in previous years? I’m guessing not more than 40,000.

Southend are claiming that they can sell 30k tickets....

 

[AndyHudds]

I've been to Wembley Stadium numerous times and not once have I used Wembley Park. Do you think this would have happened last week for the FA Cup final? So why should the National League Play Off final be subject to punitive measures? I could understand if that was the only station but it isn't, there are 2 more capable of bearing the load. Just seems a really odd decision, it really does. There really does need to be some co-operation between Wembley Stadium and TFL on the scheduled calendar at the stadium, including England internationals and thd programme if engineering works.

Do these venues not get the engineering work dates with them? Seems poor If not.

It should be the other way round surely, that engineering works fit round the stadium events?

 

[SuspectUsual]

I wouldn’t expect a National League play off match to reach anything like a capacity crowd at Wembley Stadium.

What have the attendances been in previous years? I’m guessing not more than 40,000.

Generally the crowd is far lower than say the football league playoffs, but Southend and Oldham are traditional football league teams and with decent sized fan bases plus the normal big match hangers on they could easily get to 60,000 between them

 

[zwk500]

So why should the National League Play Off final be subject to punitive measures?

The counter to this is that the National League Play-off final generally does see a lower attendance. An allocation of each club of 20,000 (so 40,000 fans + neutral tickets) is offered in the context of the previous final having had a total attendance of just over 23,000 (between Bromley and Solihull Moors) and the one before that, between Chesterfield and Notts county, two traditional 'league' teams, a total attendance of 38,000.

 

[OscarH]

Surely fans can use Wembley Stadium Station (on the Chiltern Line) or Wembley Central (on the Bakerloo / Lioness Line)..

I know I've used both of them on a match day at Wembley, and Wembley Central is only about a 10-15 minute walk from Wembley Stadium itself?

Wembley stadium/Chiltern does not remotely have the capacity for a large event. They barely have the capacity for a small event

 

[800001]

I've been to Wembley Stadium numerous times and not once have I used Wembley Park. Do you think this would have happened last week for the FA Cup final? So why should the National League Play Off final be subject to punitive measures? I could understand if that was the only station but it isn't, there are 2 more capable of bearing the load. Just seems a really odd decision, it really does. There really does need to be some co-operation between Wembley Stadium and TFL on the scheduled calendar at the stadium, including England internationals and thd programme if engineering works.


It should be the other way round surely, that engineering works fit round the stadium events?

Surely the engineering work is planned many many months even year in advance.
Football fixtures sometime are not confirmed until weeks before.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I'm also going to assume that the 40,000 figure roughly equates to the capacity of the lower tier of the stadium, or something like that. From a purely business perspective, you're not going to want to start opening up additional tiers - with all the corresponding staffing costs (security, catering etc) - just to have a couple of thousand extra punters rattling about.

 

[yorkie]

Surely fans can use Wembley Stadium Station (on the Chiltern Line) or Wembley Central (on the Bakerloo / Lioness Line)..

I know I've used both of them on a match day at Wembley, and Wembley Central is only about a 10-15 minute walk from Wembley Stadium itself?

You think 60,000 fans could do that?

I'm also going to assume that the 40,000 figure roughly equates to the capacity of the lower tier of the stadium, or something like that. From a purely business perspective, you're not going to want to start opening up additional tiers - with all the corresponding staffing costs (security, catering etc) - just to have a couple of thousand extra punters rattling about.

The 40,000 figure is based on transport restrictions.

Surely the engineering work is planned many many months even year in advance.
Football fixtures sometime are not confirmed until weeks before.

They won't have known who was going to be playing, but there are big clubs in that league this year and it was foreseeable that there could be large crowds

As it happens, the two who reached the final are the two who would generate the most demand for tickets.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

Yeah Chiltern definitely don’t have the trains to cater for all the Wembley Park passengers. They barely have the trains to cope with their own.

 

[Egg Centric]

How much capacity is there for coaches? Could it somehow be enforced that some ticket holders *must* travel by coach?

 

[Magdalia]

There have been 15 National League/Conference Premier play off finals at Wembley. Only 4 have had attendances above 40000, and none since the record attendance in 2015.

It is usual for the top tier of the stadium not to be open for the National league/Conference Premier play off final.

 

[canary fan]

There have been 15 National League/Conference Premier play off finals at Wembley. Only 4 have had attendances above 40000, and none since the record attendance in 2015.

It is usual for the top tier of the stadium not to be open for the National league/Conference Premier play off final.

That is surely irrelevant. What matters is that this year both are large ex league clubs and the attendance will easily exceed 40,000 if allowed to. Surely this is an occasion where the engineering works on the tube should be postponed.

 

[Magdalia]

That is surely irrelevant. What matters is that this year both are large ex league clubs and the attendance will easily exceed 40,000 if allowed to. Surely this is an occasion where the engineering works on the tube should be postponed.

No it is not irrelevant. 7 of the 15 Wembley finals have involved 2 ex league teams, it isn't unprecedented.

 

[zwk500]

That is surely irrelevant. What matters is that this year both are large ex league clubs and the attendance will easily exceed 40,000 if allowed to. Surely this is an occasion where the engineering works on the tube should be postponed.

It's not irrelevant that the likely attendance even if the biggest clubs won through is below 40,000. So planning for that crowd when the teams could have been far smaller was not unreasonable. Whether the Tube works could be postponed also depends on what work is being done and how it relates to everything else.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What have the attendances been in previous years? I’m guessing not more than 40,000.

Concur with @Magdalia. 47,029 at Bristol Rovers vs Grimsby Town in 2015. There's also been 40,000+ crowds in 2007 and 2008 and 2010, but usually it's not been quite as many as that.

 

[AndyHudds]

Surely the engineering work is planned many many months even year in advance.
Football fixtures sometime are not confirmed until weeks before.

The FA Cup final scheduled for the same weekend every year, the EFL play off finals are always at Spring Bank and the National League Play Off final brings the curtain down the week after. You're not telling me that TFL would schedule engineering works when they know the FA Cup final and the play off final weekend is or when England have an international. Wembley Park is specifically to move large numbers too and from the stadium....so why choose a weekend when an event that has been scheduled months in advance to do engineering works, it's bad from TFL.

Concur with @Magdalia. 47,029 at Bristol Rovers vs Grimsby Town in 2015. There's also been 40,000+ crowds in 2007 and 2008 and 2010, but usually it's not been quite as many as that.

It's beside the by how many usually turn up it's how many want to potentially turn up for this one.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It's beside the by how many usually turn up it's how many want to potentially turn up for this one.

And that's dependent on who the two participating clubs are, which is only ever determined at fairly short notice. Doubt there'd be quite as many at Wembley if it was Forest Green Rovers there (against Oldham Athletic) instead of Southend United playing.

 

[Hadders]

There’s events on at Wembley Stadium most weeks these days. Seems sensible to be to schedule engineering works for an event where a smaller crowd is expected.

 

[AndyHudds]

And that's dependent on who the two participating clubs are, which is only ever determined at fairly short notice. Doubt there'd be quite as many at Wembley if it was Forest Green Rovers there (against Oldham Athletic) instead of Southend United playing.

You're quite right but I bet these 2 have the highest average attendances in the National League so it would figure that higher ticket sales could well be higher. Just stinks a bit really.

 

[DarloRich]

It is probably the least damaging weekend available where you are creating inconvenience for the least number of people.

I will state that everyone who want a a ticket for this game will get one

How much capacity is there for coaches? Could it somehow be enforced that some ticket holders *must* travel by coach?

I am not sure that is practical. For instance how would I get to the game if Darlo were playing?

 

[Stephen42]

It should be the other way round surely, that engineering works fit round the stadium events?

There are a lot of events at Wembley stadium. Last weekend was the FA cup at maximum capacity as you mention. The weekend before that was Non-league finals day, this weekend league one/two play off final, next weekend this event, weekend after challenge cup final, weekend after summertime ball, weekend after Dua Lipa, weekend after Linkin Park. That's 8 weekends with events at the stadium in a row based on the Wembley Stadium website, with engineering works the weekend after.

The parties do work together, but TfL need to do the works at some point. Wembley presumably were aware and happy with the arrangement knowing it could limit capacity if more demand than usual for tickets because they'd want to stage the other events as well.

 

[Egg Centric]

I am not sure that is practical. For instance how would I get to the game if Darlo were playing?

I'm only talking about this very specific occasion, and you could do it by post code or something perhaps. Most fans will be local for Southend/Oldham (I had a slanderous explanation for this but it won't add anything to the thread )

 

[DarloRich]

I'm only talking about this very specific occasion, and you could do it by post code or something perhaps. Most fans will be local for Southend/Oldham (I had a slanderous explanation for this but it won't add anything to the thread )

It is 202 miles from my door (postcode) to our home ground. I am a season ticket holder,(that's really a donation as I don't go that often sadly) club member and owner. How do I get to the game under your rule?

That is why I say it is not really practical. Yes, most will come from the environs of the clubs involved but any ex league club is going to have a substantial number of "exiles" who don't.