Refreshment trolleys serving warm drinks

[Justin Smith]

I was on an East Midlands Trains service from London the other day and on this occasion I was in First class.
I was parched and asked for a cold Coke.
Now we'll ignore the unforgiveable fact that on EMT First class "cold" drinks are only available from the trolley (which is at the other end of the train.....), and just concentrate on the fact that even if I'd waited for said trolley to appear in First Class [it did so around about Derby], the bleedin' Coke would have been room temperature.

Where else but on a British train would anyone buy a lukewarm Coke ?

If anyone went into a pub or cafe and was served a room temperature Coke, or lager come to that, most people would send it back, or at least wished they'd gone to some other hostelry.
But, apparently, on EMT, and most other train companies, even in First class (the "premium product"), it's fine.
Ironically, even the staff member who I wrote an E Mail complaining about this to, would almost certainly get his beers out of the fridge when he's at home.
Pathetic.

 

[90019]

Is this going to end up with you taking a thermometer and measuring the temperature of drinks on different trains?

 

[DarloRich]

I was on an East Midlands Trains service from London the other day and on this occasion I was in First class.
I was parched and asked for a cold Coke.
Now we'll ignore the unforgiveable fact that on EMT First class "cold" drinks are only available form the trolley (which is at the other end of the train.....), and just concentrate on the fact that even if I'd waited for said trolley to appear in First Class [it did so around about Derby], the bleedin' Coke would have been room temperature.
Where else but on a British train would anyone buy a lukewarm coke ?
If anyone went into a pub or cafe and was served a room temperature Coke or lager come to that, most people would send it back, or at least wished they'd gone to some other hostelry.
But, apparently, on EMT, and most other train companies, even in First class (the "premium product"), it's fine.
Ironically, even the staff member who I wrote an E Mail complaining about this to, would almost certainly get his beers out of the fridge when he's at home.
Pathetic.

I am not sure what you are complaining about - the fact that EMT dont have waitress service, or dont have a buffett car or dont have ice cold coke or all of them?

 

[Greenback]

To be fair, there are very few places where you can't get a cool soft drink these days. Having siad that it's probably impossible to get a bottle cool on a trolley, andif there's no ice, or it has run out, there's not a lot you can do. It's not like a pub or cafe where you can nip to the ice maker or freezer for some more.

 

[Smethwickian]

On the very rare occasions (and that includes journeys the length of Newcastle to Birmingham without so much as a squeak of a trolley wheel) when I've actually seen that apparently endangered species known as the Lesser Cross Country Trolley (Scantrefresmentus Crappus) it is apparent that there is no distinction between hot and cold drinks. They're all lukewarm.

 

[Justin Smith]

Is this going to end up with you taking a thermometer and measuring the temperature of drinks on different trains?

In my experience, when it comes to objective arguments, there`s no substitute for cold hard facts (pun intended.....).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I am not sure what you are complaining about - the fact that EMT don`t have waitress service, or don`t have a buffet car or dont have ice cold coke or all of them?

You`re right. I`ve broken the cardinal rule of complaining, concentrate on one point. But, as it happens, all three are a disgrace.
Actually, EMT First class does have waitress service (apart from at the W/E), it`s just they can`t actually bring you a cold drink, even if they wanted to, which to be fair, they probably do.

 

[Greenback]

(Scantrefresmentus Crappus)

I love it!

 

[185]

All credit to the original poster, he has a point. East Midlands Trains has utterly destroyed catering in recent years, farming staff out to RailGourmet. With a HST or Voyager, there should be no excuse for second rate 'trolley' style catering, with warm soft drinks, tepid tea and curled up sandwiches.

Some berk in Derby had a bright idea some time ago to drastically change things, just for the sake of change, but in turn has cost them more in the long run. If I'm thinking of the right person, she was a senior manager, now left EMT, and previously caused the same problems at another train operator.

Some things on paper look like good ideas, but on the railway, those people who sit in offices rarely understand the real world outside.

 

[gordonthemoron]

by replacing buffet cars with trolleys, the TOCs are encouraging excessive drinking of alcohol on trains. Whereas previously I'd pop along to the buffet as and when I felt like a beer, nowadays due to not knowing when the trolley will show up and/or the beer being warm, I'm more likely to buy before I get on. Thereby saving money whilst buying more just in case as you never know if your train may be delayed.

I'm surely not the only one?

 

[142094]

I'm surely not the only one?

When you travel on a train that either has no refreshments available or the refreshments are crap to begin with, I bet a very high % of people will buy something at the station. Is it just me or has there been a swft increase in supermarket-to-go shops at stations? Sainsbury's has just opened at Newcastle to cater for this demand.

All means more rent for Network Rail...

 

[Greenback]

When you travel on a train that either has no refreshments available or the refreshments are crap to begin with, I bet a very high % of people will buy something at the station. Is it just me or has there been a swft increase in supermarket-to-go shops at stations? Sainsbury's has just opened at Newcastle to cater for this demand.

All means more rent for Network Rail...

I think that the two things are connected, but inversely. The growth of station retail units has contributed to the decline in train catering. It started with Railtrack's idea that it was a property company in my opinion!

Not that I am against supermarkets or other outlets at stations. On the contrary, I find it quite convenient to be able to pick up a few groceries at Sainsbury's in paddington before the trip back to South Wales. It saves me having to go shopping when I get home!

 

[SS4]

by replacing buffet cars with trolleys, the TOCs are encouraging excessive drinking of alcohol on trains. Whereas previously I'd pop along to the buffet as and when I felt like a beer, nowadays due to not knowing when the trolley will show up and/or the beer being warm, I'm more likely to buy before I get on. Thereby saving money whilst buying more just in case as you never know if your train may be delayed.

I'm surely not the only one?

I've done the same with cider. 3 for £5 on Kopparberg and Rekorderlig at Asda and Sainsburys. Onboard I wouldn't get much change from a fiver for a single one

When you travel on a train that either has no refreshments available or the refreshments are crap to begin with, I bet a very high % of people will buy something at the station. Is it just me or has there been a swft increase in supermarket-to-go shops at stations? Sainsbury's has just opened at Newcastle to cater for this demand.

All means more rent for Network Rail...

Supermarkets especially, there is a new Sainsbury's at Euston and a relatively recent Tesco at New St (actually the Pallasades above but certainly close enough!) and hoping to undercut the traditional shops on stations no doubt. IMO it's a good thing.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think that the two things are connected, but inversely. The growth of station retail units has contributed to the decline in train catering. It started with Railtrack's idea that it was a property company in my opinion!

That never occurred to me before but it's certainly plausible, especially with the rise of said supermarkets' meal deals and hot food counters

 

[142094]

I think that the two things are connected, but inversely. The growth of station retail units has contributed to the decline in train catering. It started with Railtrack's idea that it was a property company in my opinion!

Not that I am against supermarkets or other outlets at stations. On the contrary, I find it quite convenient to be able to pick up a few groceries at Sainsbury's in paddington before the trip back to South Wales. It saves me having to go shopping when I get home!

Network Rail seem to be continuing with the line of thought. Prime example is Manchester Piccadilly, which could easily pass off for a small shopping mall if they covered over the glass partition between concourse and platforms. Anyone remember that questionnaire that Network Rail was doing a while back? Some of the questions were along the lines of "Do you think a railway station should have a good range of shops, bars, outlets etc". Perhaps this is where the growth market is - at least you don't have to deal with TOCs much I suppose.

Don't get me wrong, I use them quite often on the travels but then again I'd prefer to get something decent on the train or somewhere else at the place I'm travelling from. I'd much rather have a few pints at a decent pub than pick up a 4 pack and drink it on the train, but seems things are moving toward convenience these days and it is the big supermarkets which will win and the small business undercut.

 

[Greenback]

That never occurred to me before but it's certainly plausible, especially with the rise of said supermarkets' meal deals and hot food counters

It makes sense to me anyway. The more opportunities there are to buy, or choice about what to buy, the more people will buy. As a result, more people take food on the train, less people buy food on board, and the TOC's feel it is not worth providing the service any more.

The numbe rof people bringing soup, burgers, sushi and whatever at Paddington is further evidence! No need for a FGW sandwich after that!

 

[BestWestern]

It also doesn't help when trolley-based catering is sometimes totally unreliable; either taking most of the journey to get through the train and then having precious little left to offer, or leaving the train early or not appearing at all because there aren't enough staff on a particular day. This does absolutely nothing to encourage use of the facility and means that the regular travellers end up buying before they board just in case :roll:

 

[causton]

After almost falling for the £2 or something London Midland tried to charge me for a bottle of coke that had been left right next to the hot drink dispenser when I had been on the train for just over an hour, I decided that in future I would look around the station/city centre beforehand! So when returning home (Birmingham New St) checked out the new Tesco, nice and cool, the rest of the station was boiling, £1.50 for two Cokes, served in 30 seconds, drink whenever I want. Sainsbury's Meal Deal for £3 - could barely get a sandwich for that on the East Coast trolley!

Unfortunately, trolley services are overpriced and poor quality, which means supermarkets will profit, which means trolley services have less money so get worse and more expensive, so... etc etc!

 

[Blindtraveler]

i value the convenience of trolleys etc but would agree that FC customers should get a COLD drink when they want, its part of whats being paid for. XC need a major rethink as its a downgrade when you think that on other runs on that line with GC etc you can get a cold one fresh from the fridge

 

[LE Greys]

It makes sense to me anyway. The more opportunities there are to buy, or choice about what to buy, the more people will buy. As a result, more people take food on the train, less people buy food on board, and the TOC's feel it is not worth providing the service any more.

The numbe rof people bringing soup, burgers, sushi and whatever at Paddington is further evidence! No need for a FGW sandwich after that!

And yet there is still nowhere you can get egg and chips with tea (served in a mug) which costs all of £5 at the places I usually frequent. Maybe I have low tastes, but it can't be out of fashion, because these places are always full.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

After almost falling for the £2 or something London Midland tried to charge me for a bottle of coke that had been left right next to the hot drink dispenser when I had been on the train for just over an hour, I decided that in future I would look around the station/city centre beforehand! So when returning home (Birmingham New St) checked out the new Tesco, nice and cool, the rest of the station was boiling, £1.50 for two Cokes, served in 30 seconds, drink whenever I want. Sainsbury's Meal Deal for £3 - could barely get a sandwich for that on the East Coast trolley!

Unfortunately, trolley services are overpriced and poor quality, which means supermarkets will profit, which means trolley services have less money so get worse and more expensive, so... etc etc!

Now that is quite a problem. The answer really is to accept that the service will run at a loss and keep it as a selling point, either by halving prices or abolishing charges altogether.

 

[YorkshireRider]

And yet there is still nowhere you can get egg and chips with tea (served in a mug) which costs all of £5 at the places I usually frequent. Maybe I have low tastes, but it can't be out of fashion, because these places are always full.

That would be nice, but could these places afford the rent, which must be quite high

 

[142094]

And yet there is still nowhere you can get egg and chips with tea (served in a mug) which costs all of £5 at the places I usually frequent. Maybe I have low tastes, but it can't be out of fashion, because these places are always full.

Huddersfield station buffet is probably one of the best - Full English and cup of coffee for around a fiver. Shame that most other stations don't have buffets.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Network Rail have some way to go in converting UK stations to shopping malls, compared with say Paris Est, Zürich HB & Berlin Hbf

 

[WestCoast]

Network Rail have some way to go in converting UK stations to shopping malls, compared with say Paris Est, Zürich HB & Berlin Hbf

Quite! St. Pancras has quite a few shops though!

I am glad the idea of mini-supermarkets in stations is becoming more popular, becuase quite frankly I don't want to rely on CrossCountry's crap catering offer.

 

[Blindtraveler]

aint it just! There would be more patronage for a decent station buffet as described above than for most or all of the outlets littering concourses these days, some of which as I learned the hard way lately are even pricyer than onboard

 

[EM2]

And yet there is still nowhere you can get egg and chips with tea (served in a mug) which costs all of £5 at the places I usually frequent. Maybe I have low tastes, but it can't be out of fashion, because these places are always full.

Egg'n'chips and a mug of tea and they're asking a fiver? About three quid in most places I go to!

 

[142094]

Although I do use a Bite Card when I'm buying stuff at a station, it still works out more expensive than doing a short walk away from the station to see what is on offer.

 

[Blindtraveler]

iv just got one of those and tried to use it the day after and guess what? Staff at pumpkin in INV didnt know what it was!

 

[Greenback]

And yet there is still nowhere you can get egg and chips with tea (served in a mug) which costs all of £5 at the places I usually frequent. Maybe I have low tastes, but it can't be out of fashion, because these places are always full.

I prefer that sort of thing myself. Unfortunately, many others prefer the chains - there is little room in station catering for the small indpendent greasy spoon!

Now that is quite a problem. The answer really is to accept that the service will run at a loss and keep it as a selling point, either by halving prices or abolishing charges altogether.

I agree!

That would be nice, but could these places afford the rent, which must be quite high

That is one of the things against them, the other is image, particularly at NR's 'flagship' stations like Manchester Piccadilly!

Egg'n'chips and a mug of tea and they're asking a fiver? About three quid in most places I go to!

My local cafe does sausage egg and chips for £4, you get bread and butter and tea thrown in.

iv just got one of those and tried to use it the day after and guess what? Staff at pumpkin in INV didnt know what it was!

Both myself and my better half have used BITE a lot, and have never had any difficulty. I don't remember using it in Invernes though, as we used to fill up in the cafe by the bus station!

 

[Yew]

What would people think if a chain took on inboard catering. Could tesco run a trolley service? Or pizza hut run a buffet?



I seem to remember something along these lines a few months ago, maybe I'll start a thread that could untimely end in a suggestion to an operator?

 

[Smethwickian]

Quite! St. Pancras has quite a few shops though!

What .... there's a STATION at St Pancras ???

 

[island]

Same experience in Ireland. They farmed out catering to Railgourmet in 2007. Before that, there were specific Cork-Dublin trains on which you could get a cooked breakfast in the dining car (which opened after the first stop, Mallow, once first class passengers had been served). In the same way there were specific dinner trains. It was expensive, but reliable.

Now, you just can't rely on there being food service on a train, so people eat at the station.