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Refurbished Eurostar?
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edwin_m
Veteran Member
There were some mockup interiors being exhibited in the German Gymnasium next to St Pancras before the station rebuilding was finished, so a lot longer than three years.
Forget dirt. For years they went around with loads of the livery missing. Are they worked so hard they couldn't be 'fixed'?
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davetheguard
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I've heard that they are now only going to refurbish about half the sets, which with the 10 new sets on order (and also taking a long time to arrive!) will make up the balance of the fleet.
Presumably, the un-refurbished sets will then be spare or withdrawn.
With only a limited number of trains, it doesn't look likely that there's going sufficient stock for lots of new routes (Amsterdam/Cologne/Marseilles) under this scenario, does it?
I think the ever more stringent regulations demanded by the UK Border Agency must be completely wrecking the business case for any more new routes; on the new inbound Provence service they force people off the train at Lille, just to go upstairs for border controls, before rejoining the same train an hour later.
International trains cross borders on the Continent hundreds of times a day and have done so for decades - well before Schengen was ever thought of. Why does Britain have to be different, particularly when it seems to me it is actually harming our national interest. If we're not careful living in a fortress might start to feel more like a prison....
Presumably, the un-refurbished sets will then be spare or withdrawn.
With only a limited number of trains, it doesn't look likely that there's going sufficient stock for lots of new routes (Amsterdam/Cologne/Marseilles) under this scenario, does it?
I think the ever more stringent regulations demanded by the UK Border Agency must be completely wrecking the business case for any more new routes; on the new inbound Provence service they force people off the train at Lille, just to go upstairs for border controls, before rejoining the same train an hour later.
International trains cross borders on the Continent hundreds of times a day and have done so for decades - well before Schengen was ever thought of. Why does Britain have to be different, particularly when it seems to me it is actually harming our national interest. If we're not careful living in a fortress might start to feel more like a prison....
gordonthemoron
Established Member
because UKBA are useless?
A few months ago, I was chatting with the eurostar chairman and another major issue was the track access charges for the new route to Amsterdam.
I presume that unless things change, travelling via the tunnel won't be competitive with the airlines.
Those same access charges I guess would be the reason why tickets on Thalys to Amsterdam from Brussels are so high compared to Brussels to Cologne.
I presume this will be investigated by the EU in the same way the high Channel Tunnel access charges are being?
I presume this will be investigated by the EU in the same way the high Channel Tunnel access charges are being?
And they don't half need it -they're looking pretty awful these days!
Most of the TGV's of a similar age, on the other hand, have had a nice refurb in the last few years.
starrymarkb
Established Member
Where are the TGV Sud-Est sets being done? Those seem to be progressing quicker
brianthegiant
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I don't think anyone here is saying that checks should be relaxed, by all means have more detailed checks, count people in & out etc if it makes brits feel safer.
BUT the point here is HOW border checks are done.
I think from previous threads on the subject, a lot of people on the forum would like to see a bit more flexibility from UKBA with allowance to do border checks at either St Pancras or on board the train for some services, with a more risk based approach.
For example how many people attempting to enter the UK illegally would do so via a 7 hour train journey from the Alps / Provence.
Also why do passengers bags need to be scanned for Eurostar when bags in cars going through Le Shuttle don't need to be scanned, likewise passenger bags aren't scanned for journeys through tunnels in the alps.
Some of us are. Some us would quite happily go full Schengen open-border because we reckon that the world wouldn't end if we did..
Polarbear
Established Member
On the subject of Eurostar & the refurbishment of 373's, Ian Walmsley has written a piece in the September issue of Modern Railways in which he is less than flattering about the operation as a whole & makes repeated reference to the tatty state of the trains.
I've not been on E* for some while now, but given that this is supposed to be a premier operation, I'm surprised that things have apparently got quite so bad? It's not as if the 373's are exactly overworked so one wonders why there's been such apparent provocation when it has come to this refurbishment?
For me, Eurostar should be a world class operation but it seems not to be the case these days.:roll:
I've not been on E* for some while now, but given that this is supposed to be a premier operation, I'm surprised that things have apparently got quite so bad? It's not as if the 373's are exactly overworked so one wonders why there's been such apparent provocation when it has come to this refurbishment?
For me, Eurostar should be a world class operation but it seems not to be the case these days.:roll:
Indeed! One suspects it's no coincidence that Eurostar are making changes (new trains, new routes, refurbishment of old trains, etc) now that DB are only a year or so away from running services of their own.
Polarbear
Established Member
Agreed.
I recall the delights of "Leisure First" which was an excellent product & some pretty fantastic journeys around 10 years back (one of which left Gare du Midi around 15 minutes late & made full use of the (then new) HSL to make up most of the time en route to London).
When I first started using Eurostar, it was an adventure & it felt like a true international journey. Passport & ticket checks on board & the customer service was really good. I happily accepted the journey before HS1 was opened (it was fun seeing 373's struggle on the 3rd rail via the Catford loop).
Latterly, the experience is more akin to most other UK long distance services - crowded, pricy and using tatty, overworked rolling stock with staff nowhere to be seen once on board (unless you go to the buffet & pay even more extortionate amounts than normal for Waitrose produce).
I recall the delights of "Leisure First" which was an excellent product & some pretty fantastic journeys around 10 years back (one of which left Gare du Midi around 15 minutes late & made full use of the (then new) HSL to make up most of the time en route to London).
When I first started using Eurostar, it was an adventure & it felt like a true international journey. Passport & ticket checks on board & the customer service was really good. I happily accepted the journey before HS1 was opened (it was fun seeing 373's struggle on the 3rd rail via the Catford loop).
Latterly, the experience is more akin to most other UK long distance services - crowded, pricy and using tatty, overworked rolling stock with staff nowhere to be seen once on board (unless you go to the buffet & pay even more extortionate amounts than normal for Waitrose produce).
LateThanNever
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Maybe has something to do with the fact that British Airways ?used to/ still do own part of Eurostar?
ModernRailways
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I must say travelling on Eurostar lately, the train was in an awful condition.
Upon boarding, my Mum said 'It's like stepping into the 90s.' I asked her how, and she basically said 'Old dingy look inside, no plugs, no WIFI, and nothing else you would expect on an Intercity (It's essentially Intercity, just between countries) service.
The seat I was on was falling apart with threads lying all over. It also didn't help that we had a very small window, and even then we couldn't see outside because it was so dirty!
Prices were a rip off for food on board, and we only used it on the return so we could get rid of the remaining Euros we had left (4/5 euros we had I think). In comparison with East Coast, East Coast have very reasonable prices!
I can see myself using Deutsche Bahn's service in the future. Unless of course Eurostar pick up! It really was quite a let down to think these could/should be state of the art trains - even if old - with lots of nice features.
My suggestions for a refurb would probably be the following:
Upon boarding, my Mum said 'It's like stepping into the 90s.' I asked her how, and she basically said 'Old dingy look inside, no plugs, no WIFI, and nothing else you would expect on an Intercity (It's essentially Intercity, just between countries) service.
The seat I was on was falling apart with threads lying all over. It also didn't help that we had a very small window, and even then we couldn't see outside because it was so dirty!
Prices were a rip off for food on board, and we only used it on the return so we could get rid of the remaining Euros we had left (4/5 euros we had I think). In comparison with East Coast, East Coast have very reasonable prices!
I can see myself using Deutsche Bahn's service in the future. Unless of course Eurostar pick up! It really was quite a let down to think these could/should be state of the art trains - even if old - with lots of nice features.
My suggestions for a refurb would probably be the following:
- Put WIFI in all carriages. Standard Class passengers must pay £4/5 for access. All other passengers get it free.
- Add plug sockets to allow for mobile charging, laptop charging etc.
- Monitors which display your progress en route.
- A lounge area in a carriage - maybe convert the bar area and put nice leather sofas in with small tables. TVs to possibly be included with BBC News 24 on.
- New seats/upholstery with the Eurostar logo on (maybe something similar to what we see on East Coast in First Class with less legroom, and First Class passengers getting a similar seat to that used on Grand Central's HST First Class).
- Change seating arrangement so all passengers are able to view out of at the least a very small section of window.
- Better lighting on board.
The fact they don't even have wifi is absolutely pathetic ! They deserve t be shut down for just that alone.
MCR247
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Bit of an exaggeration isn't it?! 
I agree that Wi-Fi would be a worthy addition, although I'd more likely use my own mobile broadband. If the EU does axe EU roaming charges next year, it won't even be an issue once you're on 'the other side'.
Definitely. In a good place, where you won't get all tangled up or risk leaving the charger behind.
I'd go one step further too - USB sockets to provide power for smartphones and tablets.
If these monitors allow you to connect your own device, perhaps. Otherwise, I'm not sure it's that essential for what is a pretty short run (until at least we have services going much further as a matter of course).
That's probably a very big upgrade, and something that isn't that necessary now that most people will have their smartphone/iPad on (and be able to use Maps if they want to know their progress).
A nice idea. I have to say that nearly all of my travel with Eurostar has been first class (or leisure select/whatever it's called now) so I barely remember the bar area. Can't make it TOO nice though, or people will never move from it - and you want to ensure people have a drink/snack and then at least consider moving back to their seat so someone else can sit.
Not sure about the logo - in case it changes and looks dated/wrong 10 years on.
Seems unlikely.
Get on a 332/Heathrow Express and see how you can use energy efficient LED lighting and really change the mood, using not only warm white LEDs, but different colours too.
I absolutely love what they've done (amazed Wikipedia doesn't have details of the refresh) and despite the difference in what HEX sets out to do (15 minutes to the airport), I think something similar would work just as well on Eurostar!
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317666
Established Member
If you ask me the refurbishment should be done to the same style as the ICEs. Very pleasant atmosphere and comfortable - that'll really provide competition with DB!
On another note, does anybody know why some of the windows have a bar across them at eye level? Apparently they're 'emergency window bars' but surely a big metal bar stops you getting to the window rather than getting through it?
On another note, does anybody know why some of the windows have a bar across them at eye level? Apparently they're 'emergency window bars' but surely a big metal bar stops you getting to the window rather than getting through it?
As an aside. I was in the 1st Class area of the Enterprise service between Dublin & Belfast recently. It was very nice and reminded me of 1st on the Eurostar ~ was there a similar design team?
ModernRailways
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I was thinking something like First Great Western's Volo(?). One carriage would be dedicated with them in seat rests - £20 extra charge to use that carriage. Price includes a small bag of popcorn which can be substituted to something similar for allergy reasons and a small bottle of Coke, or similar from a small menu. You must use headphones, which can be bought on board at £5/6 for a small cheap set, or £15/18 for a better set with better quality and you can always bring your own.
At the end of all carriages there is one monitor which displays where you are, that monitor is in such a location that all passengers can see it. It provides an ETA for when the train will arrive at the next station and what your current speed is. It also points out any places of interest, with some advertisements (short maximum 45 seconds) playing every 10 minutes or so.
Maybe make it so you must pay. If you buy food, you can stay for 10 minutes. Otherwise you must pay a £5/6 fee for 30 minutes access.
Maybe have it on headrests that are removable. The new Eurostar E320's colour scheme on the seats would look great imo.
Was on one of them recently between Heathrow Terminal 5 and 1,2,3 and must say they are very swish inside. Even Standard Class was great. Bright, roomy, although it was scruffy with rubbish all over the floor!
fgwrich
Established Member
Almost... the same rolling stock. The Enterprise coaches were essentially a follow on order to the Eurostar coaches, albeit as a standard coach type set up rather than the Eurostars articulated design.
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