Regional Railways club trains

[robertclark125]

I'm sure those of us of a certain age (me included) remember the Regional Railways club trains of the 1990s, Blackpool North or Southport to Manchester Victoria or Liverpool Lime Street. They were hauled by class 31/4s or 37/4s.

Why were they called or known as "club trains"?

 

[Ianno87]

I'm sure those of us of a certain age (me included) remember the Regional Railways club trains of the 1990s, Blackpool North or Southport to Manchester Victoria or Liverpool Lime Street. They were hauled by class 31/4s or 37/4s.

Why were they called or known as "club trains"?

I think the term was a resurrection of a historical term. The Lancashire & Yorkshire railway(?) ran dining trains to/from Manchester for commuters on similar routes, known as club trains.

I'm sure someone more enlightened than me can correct/expand as required.

 

[Welshman]

I think the term was a resurrection of a historical term. The Lancashire & Yorkshire railway(?) ran dining trains to/from Manchester for commuters on similar routes, known as club trains.

I'm sure someone more enlightened than me can correct/expand as required.

Yes, the L & Y Club trains between Blackpool/Southport and Manchester Victoria come to mind, along with, I think, the Midland Railway's service from Morecambe to Bradford Forster Square.

They ran in in the morning and out at tea-time, and were mainly used by mill-owners, living out by the sea, to commute to their establishments, and return in the evening. As the passengers were regular and became known to one another, they developed a certain "club" atmosphere. Better-quality coaching stock was used on these services - wasteful by today's standards - as they would lay over in Manchester/Bradford for up to 8 hours per day,

 

[6Gman]

Yes, the L & Y Club trains between Blackpool/Southport and Manchester Victoria come to mind, along with, I think, the Midland Railway's service from Morecambe to Bradford Forster Square.

They ran in in the morning and out at tea-time, and were mainly used by mill-owners, living out by the sea, to commute to their establishments, and return in the evening. As the passengers were regular and became known to one another, they developed a certain "club" atmosphere. Better-quality coaching stock was used on these services - wasteful by today's standards - as they would lay over in Manchester/Bradford for up to 8 hours per day,

The LNWR also ran a "Manchester Club" from Llandudno.

Even in the 1970s (!) it "sort of" survived as a service using 3-car D2 timing units rather than 2-car D1 timings.

 

[daodao]

Yes, the L & Y Club trains between Blackpool/Southport and Manchester Victoria come to mind, along with, I think, the Midland Railway's service from Morecambe to Bradford Forster Square.

They ran in in the morning and out at tea-time, and were mainly used by mill-owners, living out by the sea, to commute to their establishments, and return in the evening. As the passengers were regular and became known to one another, they developed a certain "club" atmosphere. Better-quality coaching stock was used on these services - wasteful by today's standards - as they would lay over in Manchester/Bradford for up to 8 hours per day,

Peak fast trains from M/c to seaside towns such as Southport survived into the 1970s, but the dmus were no where near as luxurious as the former "club" trains. I remember catching one of these dmu services with my father in the early 1970s to visit his elderly aunt in Southport. Her late husband (who died pre-WW2) commuted to his business in M/c using the Southport club train - my father remembered travelling with him on this train on 1 or 2 occasions to stay in Southport. Incidentally, there used to be an alternative Southport peak business express from Lord St to M/c Central via the CLC line, which was more convenient for Ainsdale and Birkdale. The timings of these fast trains to M/c were far better than anything provided today on these routes.

 

[Welshman]

The LNWR also ran a "Manchester Club" from Llandudno.

Even in the 1970s (!) it "sort of" survived as a service using 3-car D2 timing units rather than 2-car D1 timings.

How did I manage to forget that one?
Thank-you for reminding me.

It's interesting how, that even in British Rail days, local management tried to retain the custom of their season-ticket holders. Your example reminded me of their tweaking the diagrams of the "Trans-Pennine" Class 124s, equipped with griddle car and introduced specially for the Liverpool-Hull route, to allow one to be used on the Blackpool Club train, to replace the regular, less comfortable [and buffet-less] Cl.104 stock!

 

[chorleyjeff]

Yes, the L & Y Club trains between Blackpool/Southport and Manchester Victoria come to mind, along with, I think, the Midland Railway's service from Morecambe to Bradford Forster Square.

They ran in in the morning and out at tea-time, and were mainly used by mill-owners, living out by the sea, to commute to their establishments, and return in the evening. As the passengers were regular and became known to one another, they developed a certain "club" atmosphere. Better-quality coaching stock was used on these services - wasteful by today's standards - as they would lay over in Manchesterread around/Bradford for up to 8 hours per day,

I doubt many actually were mill owners. Most mills were not in Manchester and would mostly be partners or higher management in Manchester based companies or professional practices.
There were bespoke carriages with armchairs and a steward rather than normal coaches and there was a supplementary fare to be paid. There was no realistic option to the train for a journey of fiftymiles or so to a city centre.
Comfortable reliable cars, motorways and free parking at the office made the concept. of club trains redundant. I worked in Blackpool for a couple of years in the middle 1960s and it was unthinkable for higher management types to change to a train once they had got into their big comfortable car in Lytham or other saubrious location.
However in the late 1950s early 1960s there were still decent limited stop trains from Manchester and Liverpool to the Fylde coast with good quality coaching stock, some with Manchester - Blackpool boards on the carriage sides. I remember that local goods workings stopped around 4pm or sso and freed up the through lines at Preston for the fast non stop coast trains. As an aside it was reputed that the fastest train from Preston to Blackpool was the 2-6-4 tank engine worked workmans/workladies train from Euxton ROF which ran nonstop through Preston - probably just a rumour but interesting that there was enough ROF traffic to run non stop through Preston.
I used "club" trains on the Manchester to Blackpool routes around 1990 and they were, I think, about four or five coaches long and not fast - no way to bypass Bolton or the stoppers and class31s were not fast to accelerate. The best train into Manchester was the Blackpool to Harwich train with a class 47 and about four coaches plus van but it was semi fast at best. But a lot more comfortable than a first generation DMU.

 

[theblackwatch]

It's interesting how, that even in British Rail days, local management tried to retain the custom of their season-ticket holders. Your example reminded me of their tweaking the diagrams of the "Trans-Pennine" Class 124s, equipped with griddle car and introduced specially for the Liverpool-Hull route, to allow one to be used on the Blackpool Club train, to replace the regular, less comfortable [and buffet-less] Cl.104 stock!

The 104 probably had 'go faster' stripes on it though! As per the sets in the pic HERE.

 

[randyrippley]

Yes, the L & Y Club trains between Blackpool/Southport and Manchester Victoria come to mind, along with, I think, the Midland Railway's service from Morecambe to Bradford Forster Square.

They ran in in the morning and out at tea-time, and were mainly used by mill-owners, living out by the sea, to commute to their establishments, and return in the evening. As the passengers were regular and became known to one another, they developed a certain "club" atmosphere. Better-quality coaching stock was used on these services - wasteful by today's standards - as they would lay over in Manchester/Bradford for up to 8 hours per day,

Not just Morecambe - Bradford, but also Grange-over-Sands to Bradford via the cutoff to the Midland & Furness joint line at Carnforth. Presumably started at Barrow? Grange was very much developed as a mill-owners country retreat

 

[Ianigsy]

There's a restored L&Y club saloon on the KWVR which I've ridden in at a gala. At least in some cases, the "club" part of the name came about because the facilities were organised on the lines of a gentlemen's club with regular users paying subscriptions to a committee rather than a daily supplement.

 

[steevp]

Coincidentally I have just read "Murder at Deviation Junction" from the Jim Stringer Railway Policeman series by Andrew Martin (see http://www.jimstringernovels.com/fiction) - it features the murder of some of the members of such a subscription club

 

[Darren R]

The Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway historically operated only one Club Carriage. Carriage No 47 was a bogie vestibule 1st class vehicle for the Blackpool to Manchester service. It was built in 1912 to replace two earlier arc roofed coaches. It was 58 feet long and 9 feet wide, and was fitted with ten foot wheelbase wide bearing bogies.

Wide picture windows were installed, developed from the L&Y dining cars and railmotors. The coach had only one central door per side. In around 1917 it received some minor alterations at Newton Heath Works, including the fitting of electric lighting, possibly to provide better conditions for playing cards.

It seated only 40 passengers; the 40 members of the Club, an organization of Manchester businessmen who lived in Blackpool and travelled to work on the same train each day. By agreement between the Club and the L&Y, the carriage was always marshalled as the second carriage in at the Manchester end, on the 8.10am from Blackpool and returned on the 5.10pm from Manchester Victoria.

It was, in every sense, a Gentlemen's Club. Membership was by elections, was restricted to a maximum of forty, and had its own rules. The carriage was fitted with armchairs, 30 of which were for smokers. It also had occasional tables and an attendant to serve tea to the members.

The so-called "club trains" referred to in the OP were formed of a motley collection of mostly Mk I and MkII coaches in every livery imaginable hauled by Class 31 or 37 on a small number of Regional Railways services for a short time in the early 1990s. They were pressed into service because of a temporary shortage of 2nd generation DMUs.

I don't know who started calling them Club Trains, or when. I don't recall hearing it being used at the time. The epithet was either applied by someone with no knowledge of what the Club Carriage actually was, or by someone who was fully aware but had a keen sense of irony.

 

[yorksrob]

The Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway historically operated only one Club Carriage. Carriage No 47 was a bogie vestibule 1st class vehicle for the Blackpool to Manchester service. It was built in 1912 to replace two earlier arc roofed coaches. It was 58 feet long and 9 feet wide, and was fitted with ten foot wheelbase wide bearing bogies.

Wide picture windows were installed, developed from the L&Y dining cars and railmotors. The coach had only one central door per side. In around 1917 it received some minor alterations at Newton Heath Works, including the fitting of electric lighting, possibly to provide better conditions for playing cards.

It seated only 40 passengers; the 40 members of the Club, an organization of Manchester businessmen who lived in Blackpool and travelled to work on the same train each day. By agreement between the Club and the L&Y, the carriage was always marshalled as the second carriage in at the Manchester end, on the 8.10am from Blackpool and returned on the 5.10pm from Manchester Victoria.

It was, in every sense, a Gentlemen's Club. Membership was by elections, was restricted to a maximum of forty, and had its own rules. The carriage was fitted with armchairs, 30 of which were for smokers. It also had occasional tables and an attendant to serve tea to the members.

The so-called "club trains" referred to in the OP were formed of a motley collection of mostly Mk I and MkII coaches in every livery imaginable hauled by Class 31 or 37 on a small number of Regional Railways services for a short time in the early 1990s. They were pressed into service because of a temporary shortage of 2nd generation DMUs.

I don't know who started calling them Club Trains, or when. I don't recall hearing it being used at the time. The epithet was either applied by someone with no knowledge of what the Club Carriage actually was, or by someone who was fully aware but had a keen sense of irony.

Although even a careworn mk1 compartment carriage must have felt quite luxurious, compared to the majority of first and second generation DMU's at the time (the Pennine units looked a cut above though !).

 

[30907]

While there may have been only one LYR Club Carriage, the term Club Train was by the 30s applied to several services out of Manchester, and therefore meant something a cut above the rest.

This is the first result of a Google search (I detect the hand of CJ Allen himself). http://www.railwaywondersoftheworld.com/manchester_club.html

I am with Yorksrob on this - it was a fair description of the RR services, at least from an enthusiast perspective, and neither ironic nor ignorant.

 

[Cowley]

I don't know who started calling them Club Trains, or when. I don't recall hearing it being used at the time. The epithet was either applied by someone with no knowledge of what the Club Carriage actually was, or by someone who was fully aware but had a keen sense of irony.

The railway enthusiast magazines definitely called them Club Trains at the time, I travelled on a few at the time and remember referring to them as such.
Clearly they were somewhat different to the original incarnation though!