Remaining Effects of Covid

[Mainline421]

Does anybody find people go out less? Some people my wife has not seen for a year. I speak to taxis and they say they have never been more quiet. I wonder if there’s a whole generation who stay in more and watch Netflix due to Covid and cost of living?

That's probably more those people getting older. Covid may have expedited this for some, but in university, most are going out multiple nights each week.

 

[deltic]

I watched part of a number of sessions that are presently underway.

The chaos in Downing Street was unbelievable. Hancock branded a liar by senior civil servants, Johnson unable to stick to any decision. That meetings including cabinet meetings were effectively just for show - no debate or meaningful discussion took place in them and a number of ministers were regarded as uncontrollable leakers. It was interesting that greater respect was given by witnesses to opposition leaders who were provided with private briefings where they asked sensible questions and made no political capital out of them.

However, what I mainly took away was the impact of a lack of diversity in Downing Street had in decision making. A macho Britain which is world leading at everything mentality took hold, of course our world beating plan was far better than anything Italy could produce. There was no understanding of and hence plan for those who were already struggling on low incomes, depended on carers, were housebound or in prison. When someone challenged Johnson's refusal to accept Marcus Rashford's campaign to provide holidays meals to those children on free school meals, no one in the room had been eligible for free school meals in their childhood.

Bringing together a bunch of men who have mainly lived comfortable lives and who have the same general outlook on life clearly led to some awful decision making.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Great 'Matt' cartoon in the "Daily Telegraph" today...



Cartoon shows the inside of a legal chambers with the Solicitor speaking to a shopping trolley and is captioned... "I understand that Dominic Cummings compared you to Boris Johnson and that you wish to sue for defamation?"

 

[Simon75]

The government advisors only data was computer simulated .
Also deaths being put down as covid, when it was other causes.
Death certificates now have cause of death followed by contributing factors

 

[nw1]

Interesting article here:

Brain power dropped among over-50s during Covid-19 pandemic, study shows

Cognitive skills, such as memory, waned - possibly linked to stress, loneliness and alcohol, study shows.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Covid pandemic may have impacted brain health in people in the UK aged 50 and over, according to a new study.
More than 3,000 volunteers completed yearly questionnaires and online cognitive tests to measure changes in memory, and other faculties, as the pandemic unfolded.
The results revealed a decline, irrespective of Covid infection.
Stress, loneliness and alcohol consumption may explain some of the findings, experts say.
Coping with Covid fears, worries and uncertainties and disruption to routines may have had a "real, lasting impact" on brain health, they say.

It appears that various non-Covid factors may have caused lasting effects in brain health.

 

[DelW]

Well my regular Saturday visit to meet my friends at the local Wetherspoons died with lockdown. We meet up maybe once every four months. Now made harder by the closure of my nearest and next nearest ones. Another nice pub we used last time is slated for closure. I think people are going out a lot less.

I was a member of similar group which used to meet on Sunday evenings. Pre Covid, several regulars had dropped out as they'd retired and moved away from the area.

When Covid restrictions blocked pub-going, we tried various virtual options, and eventually decided to share the cost of a Zoom subscription to chat online on Sundays. This actually meant that some who'd dropped out could join in again, and three years on we still do this, with usually around half a dozen of us chatting from around the country. Everyone drinks as much or as little as they like of whatever they like, and there are no travel costs. Since most of us live alone, and are near or over retirement age, it's a welcome social activity.

We do still meet up in person from time to time, and we all go to our local pubs too, so the pub industry hasn't lost out entirely.

 

[Bantamzen]

Interesting article here:

Brain power dropped among over-50s during Covid-19 pandemic, study shows

Cognitive skills, such as memory, waned - possibly linked to stress, loneliness and alcohol, study shows.

www.bbc.co.uk

It appears that various non-Covid factors may have caused lasting effects in brain health.

Interesting that the article goes out of it's way to avoid the term "mental health", instead preferring "brain health". Yet the impact of the covid restrictions on people's mental health were often shouted down during the height of the restrictions by some, despite a lot of concern that they would have a detrimental effect on the nation's mental health.

 

[Blindtraveler]

And it wasn't just the over 50s either. I'm very much doubt I'm alone in being a poster on this forum who was forced into an awful lot of compulsory solitary confinement and that alone does really rather bad things to you and I admit that I drank far more than I either usually would do now. Wonder how many people to or three years on from all of this are still receiving support from alcohol services or have got a battery of other health problems as a result?

 

[nw1]

Interesting that the article goes out of it's way to avoid the term "mental health", instead preferring "brain health". Yet the impact of the covid restrictions on people's mental health were often shouted down during the height of the restrictions by some, despite a lot of concern that they would have a detrimental effect on the nation's mental health.

Unlike Covid itself, there certainly seemed to be a very brutal "Darwinian" approach to mental health.

 

[jon81uk]

The reduction in socialising is mostly to do with the cost of living increase. Who can really afford to go out as much these days. I certainly can't.

Yep, that and moves towards home and hybrid working have altered peoples working patterns.

That's probably more those people getting older. Covid may have expedited this for some, but in university, most are going out multiple nights each week.

Many people of university age are no longer drinking alcohol, or at least not to excess, changes to their outlook and maturity but also not being able to afford it.

Gen Z for zero tolerance: why British youth are turning off booze

Alcohol consumption among 16- to 24-year-olds is falling. So what is behind this new temperance?

www.theguardian.com

 

[al78]

Does anybody find people go out less? Some people my wife has not seen for a year. I speak to taxis and they say they have never been more quiet. I wonder if there’s a whole generation who stay in more and watch Netflix due to Covid and cost of living?

Certainly true at my bridge club. When the pandemic hit the club moved to online sessions which have largely remaind in conjunction with a subset of the original clubhouse sessions and many members haven't come back to the club, citing ill health, fear of assault in the town centre at night, COVID anxiety, driving at night, parking and caring duties as reasons. It doesn't help that the clubroom is up a flight of stairs with no lift. Within the three years of the pandemic, it seems that the fragility of the local and regional population has skyrocketed. Horsham bridge club is lucky, the members of nearby Dorking bridge club have almost entirely stayed online and they have failed to get clubhouse bridge going again.

 

[Magdalia]

Does anybody find people go out less? Some people my wife has not seen for a year. I speak to taxis and they say they have never been more quiet. I wonder if there’s a whole generation who stay in more and watch Netflix due to Covid and cost of living?

I go out a lot less. But it is difficult to separate the effects of covid from the effects of other changes to my physical and mental health.

Well my regular Saturday visit to meet my friends at the local Wetherspoons died with lockdown.

I was a member of similar group which used to meet on Sunday evenings.

I also attended a weekly group meeting like this, going back decades. I was there most weeks before the pandemic, now I only go if it is somewhere that I can get home from before dark. That's not many occasions, and not at all in winter.

Would people care about this anymore? From what I can see people have not been frightened of being on busy trains and buses due to Covid for a long time.

Yes, I do. As a result, I do much less travelling than before covid, and mostly aim for trains that I'm confident won't be crowded. Nearly all of my journeys are on trains where I won't get anyone sitting next to me. The only times that happens are coming back from Kew Gardens to West Hampstead after visiting the National Archives, or on a peak time train coming back from London. For the latter I use the Thameslink train because I'll only have someone sitting next to me from St Pancras to Stevenage or Hitchin.

And the people who are very frightened of being on busy trains: of course you won't see them because they are still at home.

I'm very much doubt I'm alone in being a poster on this forum who was forced into an awful lot of compulsory solitary confinement

I'm sorry to hear about this. I'm fortunate that I live in an apartment block and it is quite hard to go in and out without crossing paths with a neighbour. Through covid I made a rule to speak to someone every day, even if it was only the person on the checkout in the supermarket. If I couldn't get face to face contact on any day, then I used the phone instead. And I made particular effort to keep in phone contact with a friend in a similar position to you.

And the group that I attended regularly before the pandemic, hardly any of them pick up the phone to see if I'm ok!

many members haven't come back to the club, citing ill health, fear of assault in the town centre at night, COVID anxiety, driving at night, parking and caring duties as reasons. It doesn't help that the clubroom is up a flight of stairs with no lift. Within the three years of the pandemic, it seems that the fragility of the local and regional population has skyrocketed.

I felt that, during covid, I lost my "sixth sense" of how to keep myself safe in crowds and/or at night. It is a general anxiety, though some of these things are part of that general anxiety.

And as someone who has reached the stage of finding it difficult to get upstairs, your bridge club definitely needs a new venue. When considering whether to make a trip, how many stairs I'm going to have to deal with is one of the first considerations.

 

[nw1]

Certainly true at my bridge club. When the pandemic hit the club moved to online sessions which have largely remaind in conjunction with a subset of the original clubhouse sessions and many members haven't come back to the club, citing ill health, fear of assault in the town centre at night, COVID anxiety, driving at night, parking and caring duties as reasons. It doesn't help that the clubroom is up a flight of stairs with no lift. Within the three years of the pandemic, it seems that the fragility of the local and regional population has skyrocketed. Horsham bridge club is lucky, the members of nearby Dorking bridge club have almost entirely stayed online and they have failed to get clubhouse bridge going again.

The question is, though, are there any actual threats to people, or reasons for not physically attending, now, which were not present pre-2019? Most of those factors, besides Covid, were always there, and in late 2023, I think fear of Covid is irrational anxiety unless you have particular health conditions which make you vulnerable. It is sad if that is preventing people properly enjoying their life. I have a friend in his 70s who is going out regularly and fully enjoying life - and barely gets ill at all.

The reason that, to me, would make rational sense for lack of physical attendance is the cost of living crisis - as in, the cost of the fuel or public transport fares to reach the venue.

 

[Halwynd]

Although I'm regularly in close proximity to work colleagues, and whilst travelling and shopping locally, for some reason I still find myself moving away from other folk when passing on the pavement, sometimes even stepping onto the road in order to do so. It isn't deliberate, just a habit or reflex that I can't seem to let go of.

 

[al78]

And as someone who has reached the stage of finding it difficult to get upstairs, your bridge club definitely needs a new venue. When considering whether to make a trip, how many stairs I'm going to have to deal with is one of the first considerations.

This has been looked into by the committee. The roadblocks in moving to another premesis are the criteria of finding an affordable building with a primary room large enough to house 14 tables of four with facilties to provide tea/coffee and with plenty of car parking onsite or close by (the club owns its current premesis in the centre of Horsham). Good luck in finding this utopian premesis in or near Horsham.

The question is, though, are there any actual threats to people, or reasons for not physically attending, now, which were not present pre-2019? Most of those factors, besides Covid, were always there, and in late 2023, I think fear of Covid is irrational anxiety unless you have particular health conditions which make you vulnerable. It is sad if that is preventing people properly enjoying their life. I have a friend in his 70s who is going out regularly and fully enjoying life - and barely gets ill at all.

The reason that, to me, would make rational sense for lack of physical attendance is the cost of living crisis - as in, the cost of the fuel or public transport fares to reach the venue.

It seems that three years of aging has had a significant effect on the health of a few people, and I suspect those who cite getting up the stairs as a reason for not attending were likely finding it a struggle pre-covid. The cynic in me thinks some of these are excuses and the real reason is that sitting at home in front of a computer is so much easier than having to go outside in the dark and in poor weather. The way one or two of the members have spoken it is as if some people think Horsham is a dangerous place with some of the world's worst weather. The COVID anxiety is from people who are vulnerable or live with someone who is vulnerable and don't want to risk catching something in the confines of the club playing room (in the past people have attended club sessions full of a cold, sniffling and sneezing when they really should have cancelled for the benefit of other people if not themselves). Cost of living: yes it costs money to park in Horsham but the club sessions in the evening start at 19:15 and parking only has to be paid for until 20:00 which costs £3.60. That might be expensive for the poorest people in society but I would guess for those who can afford to spend thousands of pounds on multiple holidays each year it won't feature on the financial radar. As for safety, that is fueled by periodic reports of stabbings in the local paper, and being a short distance from Crawley means occasionally low-lifes over there do come to Horsham to cause trouble, if not through assault then intimidation at least. I think a lot of the fear is perception rather than reality, like some people think cycling on the road is a death wish when the KSI statistics say otherwise. Emotion trumps logic and analysis when it comes to decision making.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think another culprit causing less socialising is that we have got out of the habit.

I for one wonder if I ought to drink every week - typing this I am actually yearning for a drink !. But I do think I should be healthier drinking less.

So is going out socialising a habit that takes time to get back into ?.

As for phobia of going out I think if you look for problems you will find them where you never looked before. But perhaps if there are less people out and about then places will seem less safe. So a self perpetuating problem.

Interesting that the article goes out of it's way to avoid the term "mental health", instead preferring "brain health". Yet the impact of the covid restrictions on people's mental health were often shouted down during the height of the restrictions by some, despite a lot of concern that they would have a detrimental effect on the nation's mental health.

I think there is a distinction. Mental health could cover things like anxiety or depression but where the brain is otherwise physically fine. I think of brain health as being damage that has happened to the brain.

Covid might well have had some physical effects on the brain and memory loss is one I have seen mentioned. Was Covid symptom of loss of sense of smell caused by (temporary) brain damage/effects or some other factor not to do with the brain. I feel a little more scatty.

No doubt people have had mental health changes caused by lock down and/or home working.

 

[davews]

I am a bit different to the last few posters. During lockdown, which I disagreed with anyway, I made damned sure I had my one or two outside walks each day. When we could use the trains again I made sure I did, empty carriages and all that, having to take my own packed lunch as cafes were closed, but I made a point of having my usual London walks as if nothing had happened. I never feared catching covid (and still haven't) but I certainly feared what the government was doing to us. I have never liked Zoom, our church had Zoom services that I reluctantly joined but didn't really enjoy them. I avoided most of my club's Zoom meetings. I far prefer person to person meetings though admit at my age I don't enjoy going out on dark evenings.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I am a bit different to the last few posters. During lockdown, which I disagreed with anyway, I made damned sure I had my one or two outside walks each day. When we could use the trains again I made sure I did, empty carriages and all that, having to take my own packed lunch as cafes were closed, but I made a point of having my usual London walks as if nothing had happened. I never feared catching covid (and still haven't) but I certainly feared what the government was doing to us. I have never liked Zoom, our church had Zoom services that I reluctantly joined but didn't really enjoy them. I avoided most of my club's Zoom meetings. I far prefer person to person meetings though admit at my age I don't enjoy going out on dark evenings.

Well said Re, lockdowns

I was in support for the first month but after that I feel we should have slackened off and protected those that either needed or wanted protecting and otherwise got on with it with a selection of precautions which regardless of whether people feared catching it or not are just good common sense public safety

 

[J-2739]

Although I'm regularly in close proximity to work colleagues, and whilst travelling and shopping locally, for some reason I still find myself moving away from other folk when passing on the pavement, sometimes even stepping onto the road in order to do so. It isn't deliberate, just a habit or reflex that I can't seem to let go of.

If only more people did what you're doing, there would be less clutter on the pavements...

 

[Peter Sarf]

Well said Re, lockdowns

I was in support for the first month but after that I feel we should have slackened off and protected those that either needed or wanted protecting and otherwise got on with it with a selection of precautions which regardless of whether people feared catching it or not are just good common sense public safety

I had to go to work every day as normal and do a bit more at work so I would have loved to be stuck at home !.

I have a very good immune system but boy I got hit the first time I got it.

I think the main motivation for all the precautions * was to prevent too many people needing life support systems all at the same time. That would have meant people who could have survived dying just because there were too many needing the ventilators etc that the NHS had. Now we have herd immunity it does not matter as demand for life support is now low enough.

* = still arguments over what precautions (lockdowns, masks etc) were effective and whether they caused more trouble than they were were worth.

 

[ChrisC]

I think another culprit causing less socialising is that we have got out of the habit.

I for one wonder if I ought to drink every week - typing this I am actually yearning for a drink !. But I do think I should be healthier drinking less.

So is going out socialising a habit that takes time to get back into ?.

I’ve certainly got out of the habit of going out in the evenings, especially in winter when it’s dark. During the lockdowns, except for going out for a walk on light summer evenings, there was little else to go out for. You couldn’t at first go to meet friends or even family, and for many months after this hospitality and entertainment venues were not open. Regularly going out for a meal with a group of friends has not resumed to the frequency it was and I have not been to so many concerts. I still go regularly to the theatre but more often in the afternoons to matinee performances now. Lots of evening group activities have never properly got going again. Even bellringing at the village church we now struggle to get enough people together to make an evening practice viable.

A consequence of not being so active in the evenings is that I don’t feel that I am quite so confident at driving in the dark as I always was. I know a number of people who have said the same thing. After months of not having any reason to drive anywhere after dark it took some getting used to again. It‘s probably not such a big thing for people living in urban area with street lights, but from where I live going out at night often means driving a good few miles along dark country roads. There are no buses in the evening so it’s something that I really must persevere with.

 

[Halwynd]

If only more people did what you're doing, there would be less clutter on the pavements...

Yes, very true!

 

[Dent]

I think the main motivation for all the precautions * was to prevent too many people needing life support systems all at the same time. That would have meant people who could have survived dying just because there were too many needing the ventilators etc that the NHS had. Now we have herd immunity it does not matter as demand for life support is now low enough.

* = still arguments over what precautions (lockdowns, masks etc) were effective and whether they caused more trouble than they were were worth.

That was what was initially claimed with the "three weeks to flatten the curve" rhetoric, but it was quickly forgotten. Neither the timing of restrictions nor the rhetoric from those supporting them after the first few weeks were consistent with the aim being to flatten the peaks in hospital occuopancy.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Every hour of lockdown after the first six weeks caused more damage than it was worth in my view. It took us that long to get organized with it but once we were it should have been lifted or at least revised, I'm not necessarily saying that gigs at the O2 with 15,000 people in attendance should have restarted immediately but a lot of other things could have got back to something vaguely resembling normal




Another remaining effect of the pandemic that has possibly now been superseded by staffing issues and the need to keep costs down but it's still to my way of thinking a hangover from the bad days is that my parents have just stayed for six nights in a Premier Inn and didn't realize until I told them that you had to ask for your room to be serviced and we're quite amazed that this was not being done routinely

 

[bearhugger]

Another remaining effect of the pandemic that has possibly now been superseded by staffing issues and the need to keep costs down but it's still to my way of thinking a hangover from the bad days is that my parents have just stayed for six nights in a Premier Inn and didn't realize until I told them that you had to ask for your room to be serviced and we're quite amazed that this was not being done routinely

I stayed in a Travelodge in Ayr earlier in the year and they advised us during check in about room servicing. I too was somewhat amazed they weren't doing this routinely.

 

[JamesT]

I stayed in a Travelodge in Ayr earlier in the year and they advised us during check in about room servicing. I too was somewhat amazed they weren't doing this routinely.

Pre-pandemic there were some hotels pitching it as a green measure, saving the environment by not washing the towels every day.
But mostly it will be about the bottom line. I doubt Covid has any bearing on it now.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Exactly, they saw a saving and milked it. Personally I'm of the opinion that if I'm staying from all more than one night in a place I want my room doing and there is quite often a system in place for them not to change the towels every day if you don't want that but I certainly want the bin emptied and the bed made and fresh supplies of the hospitality tray without having to trap soft to reception to get these myself, when I forget to ask for room servicing the result is that I spend more time at reception than I do in the room as you inevitably have to stand in a queue



It also says something when even Britannia which are now considered by most on here as the bottom line lower even than Travelodge or ibis budget are servicing rooms for stay over guests

 

[lookapigeon]

I was in central London for a meeting on Friday and couldn't help but notice how quiet the West End was at 9am outside Tottenham Court Road station.

 

[Peter Sarf]

That was what was initially claimed with the "three weeks to flatten the curve" rhetoric, but it was quickly forgotten. Neither the timing of restrictions nor the rhetoric from those supporting them after the first few weeks were consistent with the aim being to flatten the peaks in hospital occuopancy.

Now I am watching the Covid enquiry it is amazing how things went. The government was quite bullish and first believed herd immunity was the way. A genuine gung-ho macho approach. They were laughing at the Northern Italy situation (February 2020) which in reality was a clue to what was about to hit the UK. Around 15/03/2020 government and those around them at number 10 were, at various rates, realising the brown stuff was already hitting the fan - death rates in hospitals. So lockdowns were a late reaction - it is obvious to me that the UK was likely going from one extreme to the other.

The basic problem was that the creaking NHS was getting overwhelmed leading to a lot of unnecessary deaths.

The factory complex I worked at we carried out a lot of extra cleaning. I was amazed how much dirt we got on cleaning cloths for the first week. The regime was continued daily with cloths quite quickly collecting a lot less dirt. That suggests years of disease harbouring grime on things like door handles and door push plates. We probably prevented all sorts of bugs.

Every hour of lockdown after the first six weeks caused more damage than it was worth in my view. It took us that long to get organized with it but once we were it should have been lifted or at least revised, I'm not necessarily saying that gigs at the O2 with 15,000 people in attendance should have restarted immediately but a lot of other things could have got back to something vaguely resembling normal




Another remaining effect of the pandemic that has possibly now been superseded by staffing issues and the need to keep costs down but it's still to my way of thinking a hangover from the bad days is that my parents have just stayed for six nights in a Premier Inn and didn't realize until I told them that you had to ask for your room to be serviced and we're quite amazed that this was not being done routinely

I certainly felt that by mid 2021 (over a year later) the delay in relaxing lockdowns that caused a lot of festivals to be cancelled for the second year was hopeless. We should have relaxed and seen what the effect was. It was time to take a small risk in the middle of summer for outdoor events because if that proved a problem we would have then had justification to show those fed up that lockdowns were required the coming winter.

The government had published a phased relaxation. However they delayed the June 2021 decision announcement by a month leading to my favourite Festival (of 10,000) held in August having to avoid financial risk and cancel instead of spending the big money early July.

As for hotels and regular room servicing. Long before Covid I learnt that a difference between Travelodge and Premier Inn was that we often had to ask for towels as soon as we entered a Travellodge room. often pillows missing !.

Pre-pandemic there were some hotels pitching it as a green measure, saving the environment by not washing the towels every day.
But mostly it will be about the bottom line. I doubt Covid has any bearing on it now.

I certainly believe that Covid, or even the reactions resulting from it, has been used as an excuse for various money saving exercises.

 

[Bantamzen]

I think there is a distinction. Mental health could cover things like anxiety or depression but where the brain is otherwise physically fine. I think of brain health as being damage that has happened to the brain.

Covid might well have had some physical effects on the brain and memory loss is one I have seen mentioned. Was Covid symptom of loss of sense of smell caused by (temporary) brain damage/effects or some other factor not to do with the brain. I feel a little more scatty.

No doubt people have had mental health changes caused by lock down and/or home working.

The article is quite clear in that it talks about the effects of lockdowns and other restrictions, not the virus itself. And as a 50-something myself I fully recognise what it talks about, that is the effect on people's mental wellbeing that these measures had. Many of us here warned about the effect not only of lockdowns, but making people feel literally guilty for being alive and mouth-breathers. Its no wonder so many people felt awful, being locked into their boxes and told they would kill everyone they saw. We were reduced to little more than lab rats by the likes of the experts at SAGE, they had so much fun prodding and pocking our psychologies to see what they could get away with, full in the knowledge that the virus would spread regardless. And then when we were taken away, along came grave warnings of "long" covid and killer new variants just around the corner.

Experts have spent the last 3 years trying to justify all the myriad of weird and wonderful restrictions because I suspect deep down they are worried that one day someone will look in their direction and question if what they helped promote did more damage than good. I firmly believe they have, and that it is now time to face up it with honest and open debate on the matter. This article goes some way to doing that, but as I say falls sadly short of the mark in talking about it being damage to mental wellbeing. Perhaps a bit of a hangover from their role in the fear making.