Remaining Great Northern services post Thameslink to be rolled into London Overground and LNER?

[Envy123]

Where was that? Trains in SE London are deserted...

On the outer suburban Peterborough trains, demand fizzles out at Arlesey and even then, it's very little at the moment.

 

[David Goddard]

The other alternative might be for the King's Lynn service to move over to Greater Anglia, sharing traincrew resource at Cambridge and King's Lynn. Don't think the service really needs "upgrading".

Now there's another thought that's not come up yet, but I must admit I wondered about a few years ago. If they are kept non stop KGX - CBG that then that would probably work well

 

[RealTrains07]

I think there is a case to move the Moorgate services over to TfL - for example the May 18 timetable change saw severe disruption to the Moorgate services which seemed to be solely a factor of being part of the integrated GTR operation despite being largely segregated operationally.

I also think removing the GN peak inners from an integrated operation with Thameslink would be a mistake, there's no reason that these need to be branded Great Northern either - I would just subsume these within Thameslink as the services from King's Cross and St Pancras work together to provide the peak capacity needed on the ECML.

The GN King's Lynn and Cambridge are more interesting - clearly if GN was abolished the choice is for the service to stay with the new Thameslink or to move to LNER - which is a choice for the DfT - retaining within Thameslink potentially with it's own brand wouldn't make Thameslink much smaller, and moving to LNER could generate a case for upgrading the level of service albeit at a cost.

Whats happening about the GN train fleets as I cant see LNER using 387s or 365s?

 

[arb]

The other alternative might be for the King's Lynn service to move over to Greater Anglia, sharing traincrew resource at Cambridge and King's Lynn. Don't think the service really needs "upgrading".

Cambridge to London passengers currently benefit from very good price competition between the any permitted ticket (effectively to King's Cross) and the Greater Anglia Only ticket (effectively to Liverpool Street). The cynic in me is therefore reluctant to agree that having the same TOC run both routes into London is a good idea - I can see many of the cheaper tickets disappearing if this happens.

 

[Hadders]

Cambridge to London passengers currently benefit from very good price competition between the any permitted ticket (effectively to King's Cross) and the Greater Anglia Only ticket (effectively to Liverpool Street). The cynic in me is therefore reluctant to agree that having the same TOC run both routes into London is a good idea - I can see many of the cheaper tickets disappearing if this happens.

Indeed. What’s wrong with leaving things as they are?

 

[Ianno87]

Cambridge to London passengers currently benefit from very good price competition between the any permitted ticket (effectively to King's Cross) and the Greater Anglia Only ticket (effectively to Liverpool Street). The cynic in me is therefore reluctant to agree that having the same TOC run both routes into London is a good idea - I can see many of the cheaper tickets disappearing if this happens.

There would still be a Thameslink / Greater Anglia choice....

 

[Ianno87]

Indeed. What’s wrong with leaving things as they are?

That's the point of the thread to discuss "what if it is not as they are...?", isn't it?

 

[Ianno87]

Cambridge to London passengers currently benefit from very good price competition between the any permitted ticket (effectively to King's Cross) and the Greater Anglia Only ticket (effectively to Liverpool Street). The cynic in me is therefore reluctant to agree that having the same TOC run both routes into London is a good idea - I can see many of the cheaper tickets disappearing if this happens.

I live in Cambridge, so benefit from those cheap tickets myself.

But it is somewhat incongruous that a wealthy city with huge tourist demand flogs rail tickets so cheaply....

 

[Roast Veg]

There's still plenty of incentive to keep the WAML only tickets to encourage passengers onto less crowded trains.

 

[Ianno87]

There's still plenty of incentive to keep the WAML only tickets to encourage passengers onto less crowded trains.

I believe they were indeed originally a WAGN initiative to fill capacity on the Liverpool Street route.

 

[cle]

The same company runs Thameslink/Southern/GatEx and has fare competition. No reason why that can't remain. Is there still a plan for a third, 'super fast' Cambridge-Liv St service?

If everything else via Royston is going into the core, then perhaps the Anglia TOC could make sense, and share stock. Similar distances and journeys/purpose.

 

[matt_world2004]

Whatever happens post emergency measures there is going to be no fare competition as the companies move to concession agreement.infact a tfL ran service may provide fare competition as they would be setting the fares for some routes not the DfT

 

[David Goddard]

Is there still a plan for a third, 'super fast' Cambridge-Liv St service

That would certainly be good. Just call at Tottenham Hale, Bishops Stortford and Cambridge, getting there in about 1h05, then run on to Ely to offer the city direct trains to both termini all day. Share stock with the Kings Lynn to Kings Cross services to maintain a first class offer on the route as well.

 

[bramling]

That would certainly be good. Just call at Tottenham Hale, Bishops Stortford and Cambridge, getting there in about 1h05, then run on to Ely to offer the city direct trains to both termini all day

Were that to happen, one wonders if would be possible to justify 2tph non-stop to King’s Cross.

There may well be case for 1tph beyond Cambridge to each terminus, and a 1tph King’s Cross to Cambridge service calling at Letchworth and Royston - or alternatively having each hourly King’s Cross service call at one of these.