Remaining Northern Line Bank upgrades following major blockade

[Djriley27]

The escalators from the Northern Line to the DLR are due to open sometime this week. Customers interchanging between the DLR and Northern will be encouraged to use the new link

The travelators and escalators between the Northern and Central should be available by the end of the month which will mean the one-way system on and off the Northern line will cease

 

[Mojo]

The escalators from the Northern Line to the DLR are due to open sometime this week. Customers interchanging between the DLR and Northern will be encouraged to use the new link

New escalators officially opened yesterday by outgoing Commissioner Andy Byford.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Will there eventually be a way from the W&C to the Central/Northern without what seems like a half-mile hike? I rarely use the place, but H&C to Northern [and it looked from the signage as though it was the same for changing to the Central] the other day took much much longer than I remember it from years ago.

 

[swt_passenger]

Will there eventually be a way from the W&C to the Central/Northern without what seems like a half-mile hike? I rarely use the place, but H&C to Northern [and it looked from the signage as though it was the same for changing to the Central] the other day took much much longer than I remember it from years ago.

I don’t think you could gain anything without at least one significant new passageway being dug. The platforms are just too far apart. AIUI the main route from the W&C, (ie the original travelator and parallel sloping route), is really only intended to get you to the ticket hall. Then the low level walking interchange route is initially shared and then “tees” into another passageway relatively close to the Central Line end of the complex, so the only obvious change is to dig a new tunnel to sort of “cut the corner” over towards the Northern line. But it would still be quite a long distance route. I’ve added a blue line to a 3D image to explain what I mean.

But that’s highly likely to be impossible to build anyway, depending on existing building foundations. Probably getting off-topic too…

 

[AlbertBeale]

I don’t think you could gain anything without at least one significant new passageway being dug. The platforms are just too far apart. AIUI the main route from the W&C, (ie the original travelator and parallel sloping route), is really only intended to get you to the ticket hall. Then the low level walking interchange route is initially shared and then “tees” into another passageway relatively close to the Central Line end of the complex, so the only obvious change is to dig a new tunnel to sort of “cut the corner” over towards the Northern line. But it would still be quite a long distance route. I’ve added a blue line to a 3D image to explain what I mean.

But that’s highly likely to be impossible to build anyway, depending on existing building foundations. Probably getting off-topic too…

Thanks - I'm trying to get my head round the diagram. So the problem is simply that the W&C tracks stop quite a way from all the others? (Other combinations of interchange all seem to be much easier - before, as well as after, the recent refurbishment. Except Central-Monument of course, though the old route from one end of the Northern platforms to the other always seemed easy enough.) Maybe it's actually more direct to go up to the ticket hall from the W&C, and then drop down to the Central from there, rather than follow the signed corridors. Perhaps that's the route I'm remembering from many years ago, when I went that way occasionally.

If I'm right, then although the current changes have certainly improved capacity and perhaps made some changes a bit easier(?), what was the slowest interchange combination hasn't been speeded up at all.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks - I'm trying to get my head round the diagram. So the problem is simply that the W&C tracks stop quite a way from all the others? (Other combinations of interchange all seem to be much easier - before, as well as after, the recent refurbishment. Except Central-Monument of course, though the old route from one end of the Northern platforms to the other always seemed easy enough.) Maybe it's actually more direct to go up to the ticket hall from the W&C, and then drop down to the Central from there, rather than follow the signed corridors. Perhaps that's the route I'm remembering from many years ago, when I went that way occasionally.

If I'm right, then although the current changes have certainly improved capacity and perhaps made some changes a bit easier(?), what was the slowest interchange combination hasn't been speeded up at all.

I think that’s a reasonable conclusion. BTW I found the picture on the “ianvisits” website, the original image is a bit larger and includes the Monument end:

3D Model of Bank tube station and the 2020 Upgrade plans

If you head into a certain Church in the City, you can see catnip for any tube fan -- a 3D model of the future Bank/Monument tube station as it will be in around 2020.

www.ianvisits.co.uk

and there’s also a slightly different viewpoint of the interchange routes we’re discussing:

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/img_6663.jpg

 

[ijmad]

Will there eventually be a way from the W&C to the Central/Northern without what seems like a half-mile hike? I rarely use the place, but H&C to Northern [and it looked from the signage as though it was the same for changing to the Central] the other day took much much longer than I remember it from years ago.

Once the new Cannon Street entrance is finished I wonder how quick it might be to exit the W&C via the Walbrook entrance, take a short walk and go back down. The new Cannon Street entrance is a very direct route to the Northern Line.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Once the new Cannon Street entrance is finished I wonder how quick it might be to exit the W&C via the Walbrook entrance, take a short walk and go back down. The new Cannon Street entrance is a very direct route to the Northern Line.

Looking at a street map, it doesn't seem that the above ground route would actually be shorter than the existing tunnels from the W&C to the Northern/Central. (In any case, would it count as an OSI if you left Bank and re-entered Bank - or Monument - via another entrance?)

 

[ijmad]

Looking at a street map, it doesn't seem that the above ground route would actually be shorter than the existing tunnels from the W&C to the Northern/Central. (In any case, would it count as an OSI if you left Bank and re-entered Bank - or Monument - via another entrance?)

Yeah I doubted it'd be any shorter, might be more pleasant though

 

[Snow1964]

A friend has told me the new moving walkways at Bank are now open

 

[Basil Jet]

A friend has told me the new moving walkways at Bank are now open

Diamond Geezer agrees, and has the pictures to prove it.
https://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2022/10/a-thing-is-happening.html

 

[ijmad]

A friend has told me the new moving walkways at Bank are now open

Yup Geoff has already been on the scene

https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1585927605626118145

Honestly looks amazing, a total gamechanger that actually might make Bank a pleasant station to interchange through!

 

[Djriley27]

Now it's just the Cannon Street entrance to go

 

[thomalex]

Just been through here and the walkways are a game changer, with this and the escalators to the DLR it feels a completely different station.

Only thing I noticed was there's a shocker of a blind corner when going from the Central line down to the travelator corridor. You decend an escalator then there's a sharp left turn, coming the other way is everyone who have just been thrown off the end of the travelator. I was almost knocked out by a few people! They could do with a central barrier here to guide you around.

 

[Djriley27]

Only thing I noticed was there's a shocker of a blind corner when going from the Central line down to the travelator corridor. You decend an escalator then there's a sharp left turn, coming the other way is everyone who have just been thrown off the end of the travelator. I was almost knocked out by a few people! They could do with a central barrier here to guide you around.

Or they could install one of those mirrors (Convex mirrors?) in the corner

 

[swt_passenger]

Only thing I noticed was there's a shocker of a blind corner when going from the Central line down to the travelator corridor. You decend an escalator then there's a sharp left turn, coming the other way is everyone who have just been thrown off the end of the travelator. I was almost knocked out by a few people! They could do with a central barrier here to guide you around.

I remember seeing in one of the 3D plans it is quite an acute angle, ie you turn a bit more than 90 degrees.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Yup Geoff has already been on the scene

https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1585927605626118145

Honestly looks amazing, a total gamechanger that actually might make Bank a pleasant station to interchange through!

Is the route taken between Central and Northern on the new walkways actually a longer distance than the previous interchange? (Albeit at a higher speed and hence as quick time-wise - and of course less congested.) Is the previous route still accessible?

 

[ijmad]

Is the route taken between Central and Northern on the new walkways actually a longer distance than the previous interchange? (Albeit at a higher speed and hence as quick time-wise - and of course less congested.) Is the previous route still accessible?

IanVisits posted a comparison video, I am not sure if it's longer in terms of absolute distance, but with the assistance of the travelators and escalators it's certainly a bit quicker and lower effort

(Slightly broken audio on this, might want to keep it turned down)

 

[pelli]

The TfL Bank & Monument upgrade information page contains a PDF schematic labelled "Planned improvements - an overview / Bank station capacity upgrade diagram of works" (attached), on which it looks like the old and new distances are fairly similar (my annotations):



In the IanVisits video it looks like both routes took roughly 25 seconds in the sped-up footage.

 

[AlbertBeale]

The TfL Bank & Monument upgrade information page contains a PDF schematic labelled "Planned improvements - an overview / Bank station capacity upgrade diagram of works" (attached), on which it looks like the old and new distances are fairly similar (my annotations):

View attachment 122830

In the IanVisits video it looks like both routes took roughly 25 seconds in the sped-up footage.

Thanks for this (and the previous reply from ijmad).

So is there any combination of two different lines which now has a shorter-distance route between, them or a significantly shorter connection time, than before the upgrade? Or is the only real benefit the easing of congestion, with little improvement in connectivity?

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks for this (and the previous reply from ijmad).

So is there any combination of two different lines which now has a shorter-distance route between, them or a significantly shorter connection time, than before the upgrade? Or is the only real benefit the easing of congestion, with little improvement in connectivity?

I think Northern <> DLR ought to be somewhat better.

 

[ijmad]

I think Northern <> DLR ought to be somewhat better.

I was walking around last weekend and noticed the two tiny staircases sandwiched between the Northbound Northern line platform and the new circulating area, took me a good few seconds to realise these were the old route to the DLR. We used them for years as the primary route but now they look so small and inadequate! My point being that while these new routes may not be shorter or even quicker when taken at pace, the reduction in overcrowding will mean less waiting time and frustration. Overall a much more pleasant station experience.

 

[swt_passenger]

I was walking around last weekend and noticed the two tiny staircases sandwiched between the Northbound Northern line platform and the new circulating area, took me a good few seconds to realise these were the old route to the DLR. We used them for years as the primary route but now they look so small and inadequate! My point being that while these new routes may not be shorter or even quicker when taken at pace, the reduction in overcrowding will mean less waiting time and frustration. Overall a much more pleasant station experience.

I believe the Cannon St entrance will in due course have a massive influence, because it will remove significant numbers from nearly all the existing routes?

 

[ijmad]

I believe the Cannon St entrance will in due course have a massive influence, because it will remove significant numbers from nearly all the existing routes?

Yeah you may be right about that one. It will also ease crowding in the Bank/Monument interchange passageways, as many people are directed via those for the exits on to Fish St and King William St. Surely quicker to take the new exit and walk on the surface for many of them once it's open.

 

[Turtle]

I was walking around last weekend and noticed the two tiny staircases sandwiched between the Northbound Northern line platform and the new circulating area, took me a good few seconds to realise these were the old route to the DLR. We used them for years as the primary route but now they look so small and inadequate! My point being that while these new routes may not be shorter or even quicker when taken at pace, the reduction in overcrowding will mean less waiting time and frustration. Overall a much more pleasant station experience.

Mentioning inadequate brings back memories of using the Bank subway one day in the mid 70s during the evening rush hour. It was the only occasion I experienced a feeling of what it must be like to be caught in a crush. There were so many people trying simultaneously to access the tube, crossing the roads or getting to Cannon Street station that a logjam developed. For a couple of minutes no one could move and I felt myself rising off the ground. An extraordinarily alarming experience and a warning as to how easily tragedies like the recent one in Seoul can occur.

I believe the Cannon St entrance will in due course have a massive influence, because it will remove significant numbers from nearly all the existing routes?

 

[plymothian]

Is the route taken between Central and Northern on the new walkways actually a longer distance than the previous interchange? (Albeit at a higher speed and hence as quick time-wise - and of course less congested.) Is the previous route still accessible?

I alighted the Central line at the same time as another passenger, he turned right and I went via the travolator to interchage to the Northern. As I was walking though the cross passage to the northbound, the other passenger was walking towards me to get to the southbound.
I stood on the escalator but walked the travolator.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I alighted the Central line at the same time as another passenger, he turned right and I went via the travolator to interchage to the Northern. As I was walking though the cross passage to the northbound, the other passenger was walking towards me to get to the southbound.
I stood on the escalator but walked the travolator.

So - little in it time-wise. Your scientific approach is appreciated!

 

[ijmad]

So from what I gather the new entrance did not open at the end of the year as planned, and will now open 'early in 2023'.

Anyone have any info, concrete or speculative, on when it may actually open? It seems from photos I saw on Twitter it's externally complete, but I'm sure there may still be some snagging to sort or handover docs to finish.

Anyone in the know on the reason for the delay?

 

[rebmcr]

So from what I gather the new entrance did not open at the end of the year as planned, and will now open 'early in 2023'.

Anyone have any info, concrete or speculative, on when it may actually open? It seems from photos I saw on Twitter it's externally complete, but I'm sure there may still be some snagging to sort or handover docs to finish.

Anyone in the know on the reason for the delay?

I would not be surprised if there simply weren't enough staff.

 

[jamie_r]

Walking past it this morning I thought it looked far from complete, as indeed was the case pre-Christmas and so opening in 2022 always seemed very unlikely to my untrained eye - echoes of Crossrail showing off stations that were nowhere near ready when the railway was due to open six months later! There’s still a load of scaffolding in front of the new entrance and what look to be lots of bits of missing trim/ceiling panels etc. All of the blue hoarding is still present at platform level too - IIRC when the new travolator and escalators to the DLR opened there was a period where the hoarding was removed but access remained blocked off for a little longer.