Requirement for last connecting train to hold at station for delayed incoming service

[hkstudent]

I was on the last Teddington - Twickenham service on 15 November (23:59), which has an official connection (5 minutes gap) to final train to London Waterloo. As the train was late arriving Teddington (6 minutes late), I approached the conductor at Teddington platform, indicating the intention to catch the connecting train to London.

However, apart from providing advice of taking a night bus to London from Twickenham if the connection is missed (which is not right advice, and I will talk a bit more in detail in another thread), he didn't try to contact the conductor of the train to London regarding to the delay, nor to the control centre.

The train arrived eventually to Twickenham with 7 minutes late and effectively missing the last train to London. Roughly 15-20 passengers are stranded at stations, and being directed by the conductor to take a night bus to London at their own expense.

Stranding 15-20 passengers at a work-site station (without any indoor waiting facilities, nor staff) is certainly not right. May I see if the UK may have some cases of last connecting trains to hold at the platform for late coming service?

 

[221129]

There is NO requirement to hold last connections, however last connections are some of the most likely to be held.

 

[Starmill]

In the general case, all connections are unlikely to be held. Companies choosing not to consider requests from passengers for connecting trains to be held, including final trains of the day, is not a surprise. Providing poor advice about how to continue your journey is also rather unsurprising.

Specific exceptions where connecting trains wait do occasionally apply.

 

[hkstudent]

In the general case, all connections are unlikely to be held. Companies choosing not to consider requests from passengers for connecting trains to be held, including final trains of the day, is not a surprise. Providing poor advice about how to continue your journey is also rather unsurprising.

Yeah, I am going to talk in another thread later this week.
The handling of the case is really bad, for the conductor, call centre, station facility and others.

 

[pt_mad]

Unless the conductor knew that a night bus would be the quickest way with the option of claming back the fare for the bus, rather than waiting for a TOC ordered taxi out in the open?
Just shows though every single action front line staff take they can be put into the spotlight. Have to be prepared to be held accountable for every conversation or exchange, with social media in existence.

 

[Ianno87]

That part of London, an onward night bus is probably the fastest option. if there's 24 hour public transport, why not advise passengers to use it?!

 

[Mag_seven]

That part of London, an onward night bus is probably the fastest option. if there's 24 hour public transport, why not advise passengers to use it?!

Agreed but ticket acceptance must be agreed surely?

 

[pt_mad]

Agreed but ticket acceptance must be agreed surely?

Unless they claim back the fare which would probably be fine with it being at night and possibly the most efficient way of reaching destination where booked connection was missed.

 

[Mag_seven]

Unless they claim back the fare which would probably be fine with it being at night and possibly the most efficient way of reaching destination where booked connection was missed.

What happens if they don't have an Oyster card or conctactless card? London buses don't accept cash. (and even if they did, what about if they didn't have any cash?)

 

[pt_mad]

What happens if they don't have an Oyster card or conctactless card? London buses don't accept cash. (and even if they did, what about if they didn't have any cash?)

Would the person not have said that to the conductor when he or she advised them to take the night bus? Presumably if the reply was I have no money or way to pay the conductor would have taken further action?

 

[najaB]

May I see if the UK may have some cases of last connecting trains to hold at the platform for late coming service?

Connections will occasionally be held - for example I've personally benefited from the Glasgow train being held at Inverness for a late running Far North Line service a couple of times - but the issue is that holding one service has an effect on other services (though, naturally, this is less of a problem late at night).

 

[hkstudent]

Unless they claim back the fare which would probably be fine with it being at night and possibly the most efficient way of reaching destination where booked connection was missed.

I think apart from our forum members, I don't think much general public know that they are entitled to claim back the cost of alternative travel.
To push thing to a bit extreme, SWR may reject the claim on the grounds that they are not contacted for the alternative travel (which will definitely trigger a London Travelwatch case)

What happens if they don't have an Oyster card or conctactless card? London buses don't accept cash. (and even if they did, what about if they didn't have any cash?)

London Bus driver has the discresionary right to issue Unpaid Fare Notice for the last bus, and some occasion, night bus (when oyster purchase facility may not be available at late night)

And it takes 50 minutes on night bus to get to the edge of Central London on night bus

 

[robbeech]

Connections will occasionally be held - for example I've personally benefited from the Glasgow train being held at Inverness for a late running Far North Line service a couple of times - but the issue is that holding one service has an effect on other services (though, naturally, this is less of a problem late at night).

Less, trains, less chance of delaying another train. However, more chance of a delay to the train (from waiting for another delayed train) causing more missed connections later on at what is now a later time.
An example, though not London based and as such less chance of alternative transport without it being arranged by the TOC :

I travelled home from Edinburgh to Whitwell a couple of years ago and planned on picking up the 2nd to last train (at that timetable) from Retford to Worksop in order to catch the last train from Worksop to Whitwell. My train into Retford arrived on time (or on time enough to make my connection valid and doable). The Northern service from Retford to Worksop was held to wait for passengers from the late running Hull Trains 2030 from King's Cross. It was held to allow passengers who needed places like Whitwell and Shirebrook. We set off and was held outside Worksop for the Nottingham train to go infront.
Northern refused to help at the time, EMT (as it was) refused to help as it wasn't their problem, and it wasn't. Hull Trains refused to help because the connection between their service and the Worksop service had been made for those other passengers travelling on that was (apparently) the end of their responsibility. So it only needs a delay of a few minutes to end up causing issues further down the line. the 1 Passenger carried on to Sheffield and stayed at a friends, the other got a taxi back to Whitwell with me. In the end, after much discussion i ended up with a 50% goodwill gesture as a refund from VTEC! the retailer of the ticket.

All in all, i think you have to be every bit as careful holding services late at night but for different reasons. If you stand a good chance of catching up due to light loadings so quicker dwell times and less traffic then a couple of minutes might not hurt.

 

[island]

London Bus driver has the discresionary right to issue Unpaid Fare Notice for the last bus, and some occasion, night bus (when oyster purchase facility may not be available at late night)

I believe London Bus UPFNs were withdrawn last year due to low levels of passenger compliance and high administrative overhead.

 

[gray1404]

In this case the train company should have provided a taxi to the final destination. This is an entitlement and it the minimum the TOC can do.

 

[hkstudent]

Less, trains, less chance of delaying another train. However, more chance of a delay to the train (from waiting for another delayed train) causing more missed connections later on at what is now a later time.
An example, though not London based and as such less chance of alternative transport without it being arranged by the TOC :

I travelled home from Edinburgh to Whitwell a couple of years ago and planned on picking up the 2nd to last train (at that timetable) from Retford to Worksop in order to catch the last train from Worksop to Whitwell. My train into Retford arrived on time (or on time enough to make my connection valid and doable). The Northern service from Retford to Worksop was held to wait for passengers from the late running Hull Trains 2030 from King's Cross. It was held to allow passengers who needed places like Whitwell and Shirebrook. We set off and was held outside Worksop for the Nottingham train to go infront.
Northern refused to help at the time, EMT (as it was) refused to help as it wasn't their problem, and it wasn't. Hull Trains refused to help because the connection between their service and the Worksop service had been made for those other passengers travelling on that was (apparently) the end of their responsibility. So it only needs a delay of a few minutes to end up causing issues further down the line. the 1 Passenger carried on to Sheffield and stayed at a friends, the other got a taxi back to Whitwell with me. In the end, after much discussion i ended up with a 50% goodwill gesture as a refund from VTEC! the retailer of the ticket.

All in all, i think you have to be every bit as careful holding services late at night but for different reasons. If you stand a good chance of catching up due to light loadings so quicker dwell times and less traffic then a couple of minutes might not hurt.

For your case, you would be better off in compensation if things escalted to rail ombudsman, for TOC failed to arrange alternative transport for stranded passenger, and have a high chance of getting the whole taxi cost and the delay repay of full return ticket.

 

[Haywain]

In this case the train company should have provided a taxi to the final destination. This is an entitlement and it the minimum the TOC can do.

Onward transport may be an entitlement, but it doesn't have to be a taxi.

 

[AlterEgo]

Agreed but ticket acceptance must be agreed surely?

In principle, of course. How long do you want to wait for that to happen?

 

[hkstudent]

In principle, of course. How long do you want to wait for that to happen?

And, for late night hours, it may take ages...

 

[packermac]

Well SWR's own passenger charter (Page 16 When Things Go Wrong section) it says this, so saying pay for your own night bus seems to fly in the face of that.

If the train you are on is delayed during your trip, getting


you to the station you are going to if we can – by bus or

taxi if we need to. If we cannot get you to that station,

we will take you to the station that will work best for

you. If we cannot do either of these things, we will

provide you with somewhere to stay for the night, so

you can continue your journey the next day.

 

[hkstudent]

Well SWR's own passenger charter (Page 16 When Things Go Wrong section) it says this, so saying pay for your own night bus seems to fly in the face of that.

If the train you are on is delayed during your trip, getting


you to the station you are going to if we can – by bus or

taxi if we need to. If we cannot get you to that station,

we will take you to the station that will work best for

you. If we cannot do either of these things, we will

provide you with somewhere to stay for the night, so

you can continue your journey the next day.

I am thinking whether operator not be able to send stranded passenger to final destination (unless providing overnight accomodation) by alternative transport be consided as violation of rules