Reservable trains and non reservable trains

[Wallsendmag]

If you buy an advance ticket from say Leeds to Reading, the ticket will say "valid on specified LNER train(s) & connections" or something like that. It will show the LNER train and seat number that you must travel on, but it will not reference the GWR service. Unless you are suggesting that I must being the reservation tickets with me (which i am almost certain you don't have to), there is no way a ticket inspector can tell which GWR train you shouldve been on.

If you are travelling on a reservable GWR service it certainly will give you a reservation for that.

 

[Hadders]

If you buy an advance ticket from say Leeds to Reading, the ticket will say "valid on specified LNER train(s) & connections" or something like that. It will show the LNER train and seat number that you must travel on, but it will not reference the GWR service. Unless you are suggesting that I must being the reservation tickets with me (which i am almost certain you don't have to), there is no way a ticket inspector can tell which GWR train you shouldve been on.

If your itinerary includes travel on a reservable GWR train (i.e. a non-stop one) between Paddington and Reading then you will be issued with a reservation for that train which you must travel on.

If you don't get given a reservation between Paddington and Reading then you can travel on any appropriate non-reservable train train (i.e. not a non-stop one).

Perhaps you could post a copy of the tickets and reservation coupons and we can advise further.

 

[Haywain]

Unless you are suggesting that I must being the reservation tickets with me (which i am almost certain you don't have to)

If you have been issued reservation coupons then you must carry them and show them with the ticket coupon, as they form part of the ticket.

 

[DeverseSam]

If you are travelling on a reservable GWR service it certainly will give you a reservation for that.

Which begs the question are there any websites which allow the user to force non reservable connections? As more flexibility can only be a good thing

 

[mangyiscute]

Which begs the question are there any websites which allow the user to force non reservable connections? As more flexibility can only be a good thing

I imagine if you use trainsplit and add in calls at Ealing Broadway that would work

 

[Wallsendmag]

Which begs the question are there any websites which allow the user to force non reservable connections? As more flexibility can only be a good thing

Just specify a change at one of the Thames Valley stations but don't expect to get to Reading on a fast train every time.

 

[miklcct]

Just specify a change at one of the Thames Valley stations but don't expect to get to Reading on a fast train every time.

Is it legally enforceable? There isn't anywhere in the public terms and conditions saying that one must take an unreservable train when making the connection and the requirement of using the ticket says that travel must be made on the services specified, but not anything about travelling on services not specified on the ticket. (This is the reason I insist on paper tickets when buying Advance tickets with connections, as the connecting train will be printed onto the itinerary on an e-ticket)

 

[Wallsendmag]

Is it legally enforceable? There isn't anywhere in the public terms and conditions saying that one must take an unreservable train when making the connection and the requirement of using the ticket says that travel must be made on the services specified, but not anything about travelling on services not specified on the ticket. (This is the reason I insist on paper tickets when buying Advance tickets with connections, as the connecting train will be printed onto the itinerary on an e-ticket)

Yes

 

[miklcct]

Yes

Can you show me that how is travelling on a reservable service, when the ticket and reservation coupons don't specify any trains for that portion of the journey, runs foul of the rules?

 

[Watershed]

Can you show me that how is travelling on a reservable service, when the ticket and reservation coupons don't specify any trains for that portion of the journey, runs foul of the rules?

I suppose the argument is that you aren't travelling in line with the requirement, which you agree to when buying your ticket, that you may only travel on the selected itinerary/trains as it's an Advance.

The fact that these trains won't necessarily all be printed on the ticket is therefore irrelevant - as by travelling on a service where reservations are available, without holding a corresponding reservation, it is clear that you aren't travelling in line with the itinerary you were given.

That being said, I think you would have to encounter a very mean guard/RPI to face anything more than a 'telling off', unless you were doing it on a regular or repeated basis.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Can you show me that how is travelling on a reservable service, when the ticket and reservation coupons don't specify any trains for that portion of the journey, runs foul of the rules?

I don't have to , you'll need to prove it's fine. Good luck with that.

 

[miklcct]

I suppose the argument is that you aren't travelling in line with the requirement, which you agree to when buying your ticket, that you may only travel on the selected itinerary/trains as it's an Advance.

The fact that these trains won't necessarily all be printed on the ticket is therefore irrelevant - as by travelling on a service where reservations are available, without holding a corresponding reservation, it is clear that you aren't travelling in line with the itinerary you were given.

That being said, I think you would have to encounter a very mean guard/RPI to face anything more than a 'telling off', unless you were doing it on a regular or repeated basis.

4. When and where the ticket can be used​

• Tickets are valid ONLY on the date and train service(s) shown on the ticket(s).
• Where applicable, you must travel in the Class and reserved seat(s) shown on the ticket(s).
• Tickets may only be used on the services of the Train Company (or geographic route where applicable) shown next to ‘Route’ on the ticket.
• If the ‘Route’ also states ‘and Connections’, travel is allowed on appropriate connecting trains where shown on the ticket(s) or other valid travel itinerary.
• If the route is prefixed with a +, the ticket includes the cost of travelling across London on London Underground, Docklands Light Railway or Thameslink services as appropriate to the journey.

Let's use my Woking - Bournemouth example mentioned before. The ticket states:

From Woking
To Bournemouth
South Western Railway only

17:46 South Western Railway
from Basingstoke
to Bournemouth

If I try to take the rules to the letter, the ticket is only valid on the 17:46 service from Basingstoke (which doesn't call at Woking). It is not valid on any other services, i.e. no services at all to get me to Basingstoke. In such case, can an inspector on a Woking to Basingstoke service Penalty Fare me on the basis that I'm not travelling on a service shown on the ticket, which implies no journey can be made on the ticket?

And, to @Watershed , the wording I have bolded appears to have been made up, as I can't find the exact meaning in any official sources including the NRCoT and National Rail Enquiries. From my understanding, I can only travel on the trains shown on the ticket, rather than the trains I selected. The difference allows me to create a situation which I can select trains which, due to the system design, not to be shown on the ticket.

 

[island]

Deleted, misread the post

 

[Watershed]

Let's use my Woking - Bournemouth example mentioned before. The ticket states:

From Woking
To Bournemouth
South Western Railway only

17:46 South Western Railway
from Basingstoke
to Bournemouth

If I try to take the rules to the letter, the ticket is only valid on the 17:46 service from Basingstoke (which doesn't call at Woking). It is not valid on any other services, i.e. no services at all to get me to Basingstoke. In such case, can an inspector on a Woking to Basingstoke service Penalty Fare me on the basis that I'm not travelling on a service shown on the ticket, which implies no journey can be made on the ticket?

And, to @Watershed , the wording I have bolded appears to have been made up, as I can't find the exact meaning in any official sources including the NRCoT and National Rail Enquiries. From my understanding, I can only travel on the trains shown on the ticket, rather than the trains I selected. The difference allows me to create a situation which I can select trains which, due to the system design, not to be shown on the ticket.

Obviously the situation will depend on what you are told when you buy your ticket. But all retailers give a similar wording, making clear you must travel on the booked services, e.g. TrainSplit and MixingDeck based sites quote the NRE fare information:

Valid on South Western Railway services. May also be valid on connecting services, as shown in your itinerary.

...

Advance tickets are valid only on the specific booked train

Trainline says:

Non-refundable ticket, only valid for the date, time trains specified.

...

VALIDITY
You must travel on the date, time and trains specified.

The NRCoT don't define the terms applying to individual ticket types. That's left down to the fare setter to determine, and for the retailer to communicate to the customer.

I think you may also be labouring under a misapprehension as to the meaning of "booked". "Booked" doesn't mean reserved, it's referring to the trains on which you booked your ticket.

Whilst you may 'get away' with using the wrong non-reservable train on the basis that it's impossible to tell what train you booked, as stated previously, the same doesn't apply if you take a reservable train instead.