"Reserve" fleet

[jopsuk]

With TOCs increasingly turning to loco hauled sets to cover for MU shortfalls, it seems these tend to have to operate with locos at either end- with one dead in tow. I realise this might take investment (shock!), but surely there's now something of a market for the ROSCOs to have small fleets of DVT or DBSO equipped rakes of carriages available for hire? Surely this would reduce running costs, reduce hire-in costs (by not needing to hire two locos) and reduce track wear? With a suitable pool, rakes could be supplied to suit the needs (length, 1st class or not etc).

Presumably, this is too sensible/expensive to arrange?

Of course, ideally all the units needed would be built instead.

 

[Geezertronic]

Don't Cargo-D have some of these?

 

[fgwrich]

With TOCs increasingly turning to loco hauled sets to cover for MU shortfalls, it seems these tend to have to operate with locos at either end- with one dead in tow. I realise this might take investment (shock!), but surely there's now something of a market for the ROSCOs to have small fleets of DVT or DBSO equipped rakes of carriages available for hire? Surely this would reduce running costs, reduce hire-in costs (by not needing to hire two locos) and reduce track wear? With a suitable pool, rakes could be supplied to suit the needs (length, 1st class or not etc).

Presumably, this is too sensible/expensive to arrange?

Of course, ideally all the units needed would be built instead.

Don't Cargo-D have some of these?

Cargo D don't have any DBSO's - the remaining are still in sotre in the works ( eastleigh), with the only ones sold so far are the NR ones, and two to rivera - one of which has ended up with Translink...

As for the remaining DBSOs...Im not saying anything...Nor can i say anything as im hearing several differnet things about them...

 

[mumrar]

Cargo D do have a DVT at least, because they painted it BR blue to go with 86101 and stock when Hull Trains hired it. The other advantage to having the locos top n tail is if one fails another is on hand. Don't forget there's not much chance of a gee-up off a pacer or sprinter!

 

[E&W Lucas]

With TOCs increasingly turning to loco hauled sets to cover for MU shortfalls, it seems these tend to have to operate with locos at either end- with one dead in tow. I realise this might take investment (shock!), but surely there's now something of a market for the ROSCOs to have small fleets of DVT or DBSO equipped rakes of carriages available for hire? Surely this would reduce running costs, reduce hire-in costs (by not needing to hire two locos) and reduce track wear? With a suitable pool, rakes could be supplied to suit the needs (length, 1st class or not etc).

Presumably, this is too sensible/expensive to arrange?

Of course, ideally all the units needed would be built instead.

Isn't the converse true? There's a pile of Mk III's & Mk III DVT's in store, but a chronic shortage of suitable motive power? I believe there may still be some Class 90's stored, but there's not much else? Plus, NR aren't the biggest fans of loco hauled trains (nasty heavy things, which wear out their track!).

Don't forget, that before a TOC starts using traction, fitters and drivers need to be type trained.

 

[jopsuk]

surely having pairs of 67s and 57s in use (on trains they can happily haul on their own) compounds any shortage in traction? I recognise that NR aren't fans of loco hauled- as I said, it would be better if there wasn't a shortage of MUs

 

[matt]

Cargo D do have a DVT at least, because they painted it BR blue to go with 86101 and stock when Hull Trains hired it. The other advantage to having the locos top n tail is if one fails another is on hand. Don't forget there's not much chance of a gee-up off a pacer or sprinter!

82115 is not owned by cargo-d. I think its still a Porterbrook dvt.

 

[Geezertronic]

82115 is not owned by cargo-d. I think its still a Porterbrook dvt.

Porterbrook are selling a DVT if anyone has any spare cash

http://www.porterbrook.com/pages/for_sale.html

 

[Royston Vasey]

What I suspect is stopping this happening is the uncertainty of income wouldn't justify refurbishment and maintenance of the vehicles. Hard to make a business case for as you could easily lose your shirt.

It wouldn't justify purchasing new locos if they would be used for just spot hire. 37s and 47s are not reliable enough for the rigours of sdaily use, not enough 57s unless you convert another batch of 47s. There are some "brand new" spot hire 86s which are intended for this purpose.

There are a reasonable number of spare coaches and DVTs that could be refurbed. New coaches would be an option, but paying for new rolling stock would make the business case even more marginal.

And of course, you'd have the DRS, Cargo-D and even DB as competition. They have fairly good quality coaches and have done exactly this for the Workington shuttles, Hull Trains/WSMR/FGW, GC respectively). Cotswold and others have tried and failed in this market.

You'd need a compelling case to say that a) there is enough certainty of income, b) you could compete with the existing competition in terms of higher quality and/or lower price

 

[GNERman]

Porterbrook are selling a DVT if anyone has any spare cash

http://www.porterbrook.com/pages/for_sale.html

Well lets see, I have £200 saved up...

 

[Royston Vasey]

Porterbrook are selling a DVT if anyone has any spare cash

http://www.porterbrook.com/pages/for_sale.html

"Class 82 Driving Van Trailer"

Tut tut Porterbrook... they are Mark III DVTs with coach numbers in the 82xxx series!!

 

[MCR247]

Cargo D don't have any DBSO's - the remaining are still in sotre in the works ( eastleigh), with the only ones sold so far are the NR ones, and two to rivera - one of which has ended up with Translink...

As for the remaining DBSOs...Im not saying anything...Nor can i say anything as im hearing several differnet things about them...

No offence or anything, but I find it quite annoying when you put stuff like 'Im not saying anything...Nor can i say anything as im hearing several differnet things about them...' because from my point of view it just seems like an attempt to make out that you know more than everyone else. You did it in a thread about 57 having engine problems (IIRC)

 

[fgwrich]

No offence or anything, but I find it quite annoying when you put stuff like 'Im not saying anything...Nor can i say anything as im hearing several differnet things about them...' because from my point of view it just seems like an attempt to make out that you know more than everyone else. You did it in a thread about 57 having engine problems (IIRC)

The thing is, Is that i do know.

RE : 57301 - Heres some pictures by Carl Watson - Showing The General Motors / EMD 645 Power Unit / Engine etc

http://carl-watson.fotopic.net/p62916960.html

And the DBSOs - Again, i do know what im talking about, im just under instruction not to reveal anything else about it!

So sorry about the way i type, but i can assure you i really do know what im talking about, and if i could give a link - i would...But not for now!

 

[MCR247]

The thing is, Is that i do know.

RE : 57301 - Heres some pictures by Carl Watson - Showing The General Motors / EMD 645 Power Unit / Engine etc

http://carl-watson.fotopic.net/p62916960.html

And the DBSOs - Again, i do know what im talking about, im just under instruction not to reveal anything else about it!

So sorry about the way i type, but i can assure you i really do know what im talking about, and if i could give a link - i would...But not for now!

Yeah, but even if you do know, then why post saying you can't say for now? What do you gain by posting this? What does everyone else gain? All I'm trying to say, is why post saying you know, but you can't tell anyone?

 

[kevin37]

As i rember DBS were doing timeing runs with top n tail 67s with 8 coaches and DVT no reason why they cant use that on Cardiff to Paintons dont think great western will mind the livery of the DVT as ther hired coaches so far have been cargo-d blue and grey,angila green,maron with EWS branding just the break van, and intercity black and white (including the 57+2 on cardiff Tautans).

 

[royaloak]

And the DBSOs - Again, i do know what im talking about, im just under instruction not to reveal anything else about it!

This is going to read a lot more direct than I mean so please bear with me.

So why post then or do you just like to feel superior to us mere mortals :roll:.
Or to put it another way-
Prove it, have you heard the phrase "put up or shut up", its all very well saying "I know something but can't say" but that doesn't prove anything, I could say "I know what the lottery numbers will be on Saturday but cant say", doesn't mean I actually do.

If you are not going to say anything useful then please don't say anything!
There are a lot of things I know (or can find out) but cant divulge so I just keep it too myself, all this secret society stuff is a bit "look at me aren't I clever" and just serves to wind people up, now I am sure you don't MEAN it to come across like that but it does.

Don't mean to sound nasty but its just the way a lot of people read your posts, I am sure you are a really nice chap, and possibly MAY know something (or not) but posts such as the one above don't really endear yourself to other people.
See I tried to make it sound nice(ish) and hope it does, if not I will give you a big girly kiss (with tongues if you ask nice ) when I see you

 

[fgwrich]

This is going to read a lot more direct than I mean so please bear with me.

So why post then or do you just like to feel superior to us mere mortals :roll:.
Or to put it another way-
Prove it, have you heard the phrase "put up or shut up", its all very well saying "I know something but can't say" but that doesn't prove anything, I could say "I know what the lottery numbers will be on Saturday but cant say", doesn't mean I actually do.

If you are not going to say anything useful then please don't say anything!
There are a lot of things I know (or can find out) but cant divulge so I just keep it too myself, all this secret society stuff is a bit "look at me aren't I clever" and just serves to wind people up, now I am sure you don't MEAN it to come across like that but it does.

Don't mean to sound nasty but its just the way a lot of people read your posts, I am sure you are a really nice chap, and possibly MAY know something (or not) but posts such as the one above don't really endear yourself to other people.
See I tried to make it sound nice(ish) and hope it does, if not I will give you a big girly kiss (with tongues if you ask nice ) when I see you

PM on the way.

 

[MCR247]

This is going to read a lot more direct than I mean so please bear with me.

So why post then or do you just like to feel superior to us mere mortals :roll:.
Or to put it another way-
Prove it, have you heard the phrase "put up or shut up", its all very well saying "I know something but can't say" but that doesn't prove anything, I could say "I know what the lottery numbers will be on Saturday but cant say", doesn't mean I actually do.

If you are not going to say anything useful then please don't say anything!
There are a lot of things I know (or can find out) but cant divulge so I just keep it too myself, all this secret society stuff is a bit "look at me aren't I clever" and just serves to wind people up, now I am sure you don't MEAN it to come across like that but it does.

Don't mean to sound nasty but its just the way a lot of people read your posts, I am sure you are a really nice chap, and possibly MAY know something (or not) but posts such as the one above don't really endear yourself to other people.
See I tried to make it sound nice(ish) and hope it does, if not I will give you a big girly kiss (with tongues if you ask nice ) when I see you

Thats kind of what I was going to say in the nicest way possible

 

[royaloak]

Well after reading the PM from Rich I can confirm that he DOES know what he is talking about with the DVT and it really isnt possible (or desirable) to put it out there yet.

I appreciate his posts are well meaning, which is what I was trying to put across in my usual kack handed style yesterday, and I am pleased to say he is NOT taking me up on the offer of the kiss