RESOLVED - Caught short faring at New Street

[Jesturrrr]

Hello everyone,

This morning, I got caught short faring at New Street Station. For the past month, I have been buying tickets from Five Ways to New Street instead of Water Orton to New Street (Crosscountry) , saving around £2 per ticket, amounting to around 15 short fares. I am aware that doing this to save £30 over the course of a month is flat out moronic, but I have just started a new job and with the outlay of new tools and work clothes, I am broke and won't be paid until the end of this month.

The inspector stopped me this morning and I attempted to lie about it, pretty terribly, by saying that I had come from Five Ways and had tried to meet a friend on the platform and then walked around. He saw right through it and put me under caution. The mentions of court and caution put the fear of God in me and I think he noticed, as he asked if I wanted to sit down, get a drink etc. The inspector was a lovely gentleman and not at all aggressive in any way. I did however lie to the inspector about how much I had short fared this month as I was sh*tting bricks about mentions of court and being under caution. I told him that it was irregular when in reality it has been more or less every weekday.

The problem for me is that I genuinely do travel from Five Ways occasionally in my work, and I'm worried that the genuine fares will be misconstrued as short fares. I also in my anxiety can't really remember what he said to me or what I said to him - I can't even remember if he took my name or address. He certainly took my postcode, and also took a picture of the ticket and the barcode on it.

I also used to short fare when I was an apprentice 8 years ago, and I am unsure how far back Crosscountry will check.

I've definitely learnt my lesson and will be buying legitimate tickets from now on. I would like to know how far they'll go back in my ticket history, how likely it is I will be able to settle out of court, and how much I can expect to pay.

Thanks

 

[jfollows]

They can only examine your ticket history if you bought your tickets online, eg Trainline or other, can you please clarify? Even assuming you did, I think it unlikely they’ll want to or be able to go back eight years, I’d expect your more recent 15 short fares only to be noted.

 

[jeremyjh]

Hello and welcome. You'll find expert help here.

As you've noted above, your approach to paying for your travel wasn't wise, and the first thing to say is to ensure that you consistently pay for your travel properly from now on.

How far back the investigation might look will depend on what data is available to them. How do you buy your tickets? It's very unlikely they'd go back 8 years in any case.

You mention that you have some genuine travel to/from Five Ways. It's worth thinking about what would differentiate those journeys from occasions on which you engaged in short faring. Are there many? Are they at different times of day?

 

[Jesturrrr]

Hello both, thanks for your quick replies. Yes I bought my tickets via trainline. The legitimate tickets tend to be bought in the afternoon or evenings.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hello both, thanks for your quick replies. Yes I bought my tickets via trainline. The legitimate tickets tend to be bought in the afternoon or evenings.

In that case, go through your records on trainline. Work out which tickets were for journeys that really started at Five Ways, and which ones were for short faring. When the railway get in touch with you, this will help you to give straight answers to whatever questions they ask - if they ask about journeys other than the one that they stopped you on, then it will be helpful to be able to explain that 'I fare dodged on x journeys, buying a ticket from Five Ways to New Street in the mornings, but the y tickets that I bought in the afternoons and evenings were for journeys where I only got on at Five Ways.' It will also help if you can explain to the railway why you start your afternoon and evening journeys from Five Ways.

 

[Jesturrrr]

Thank you very much - this can be easily explained as I'm currently working on two houses in Edgebaston so I take the bus from the houses to Five Ways train station and board there. I then usually get a uber from New Street as for some reason Ubers from Five Ways or Edgebaston Road are like £5 more expensive despite being within walking distance.

Trainline only allows me to go back two years in my fares so if they do ask, I can't actually say how much I've short fared beyond this month of travel as I've been working from home for three years and never needed to take a train in.

Can anyone tell me how much I'd expect to pay as well as how friendly CrossCountry are to out of court settlements?

 

[Haywain]

this can be easily explained as I'm currently working on two houses in Edgebaston so I take the bus from the houses to Five Ways train station and board there. I then usually get a uber from New Street as for some reason Ubers from Five Ways or Edgebaston Road are like £5 more expensive despite being within walking distance.

You will have to accept that as you have been buying such tickets for short faring from Water Orton, your explanation is not convincing.

 

[Jesturrrr]

You will have to accept that as you have been buying such tickets for short faring from Water Orton, your explanation is not convincing.

I understand. I'd rather not pay the tickets that are legitimate, but if it means I avoid court then it's a small price to pay in comparison.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

If you've been stopped at Birmingham New Street you're likely to be dealing with West Midlands Trains, not CrossCountry. The train companies can act for each others behalf when it comes to this sort of thing.

What happens next is that WMT will write to you in the next few weeks. The letter will use quite threatening languaue and say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It is important you reply to this letter and I suggest a short, concise reply mentioning the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

WMT are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) to people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. We cannot guarantee this and WMT are within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court if they want to.

Be aware that WMT will search your online ticket purchase history and they will probably want to ask you about the other occasions as well and include them when calculating the settlement. If you have made genuine journey from Five Ways to Birmingham New Street then think about how you can differentiate between the genuine and non-genuine journeys.

If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the value of the outstanding fares at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the tickets you did purchase. In addition you will have to pay an admin fee, typically around £150. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered - payment in installments is not normally allowed. Paying an out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[Jesturrrr]

Hi everyone, finally got the email through for my short fare. No letter through as of yet. It reads like so:


Dear Customer,



Travel Fraud Investigation



We have recently been handed a file relating to an incident on 24th July 2024 when approached by staff carrying out their revenue duties, you were asked to show your valid ticket you offered a ticket that was not valid for the journey you had completed, possibly committing short journey fraud.

You were interviewed under caution for possibly committing short journey fraud.



Further investigations into this matter have been carried out, including a review of the ticket records. It would appear, at this stage, that this may be a case of fraud. West Midlands Trains take travel fraud extremely seriously and is committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Such an offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, in either case, a criminal record. It must also be considered whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006.



At this stage we would be grateful if you would provide any evidence to support the claim that none of the above legislation has been contravened to prevent further action being contemplated.
----
How should I respond?

Thanks



Kind regards,

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi everyone, finally got the email through for my short fare. No letter through as of yet. It reads like so:


Dear Customer,



Travel Fraud Investigation



We have recently been handed a file relating to an incident on 24th July 2024 when approached by staff carrying out their revenue duties, you were asked to show your valid ticket you offered a ticket that was not valid for the journey you had completed, possibly committing short journey fraud.

You were interviewed under caution for possibly committing short journey fraud.



Further investigations into this matter have been carried out, including a review of the ticket records. It would appear, at this stage, that this may be a case of fraud. West Midlands Trains take travel fraud extremely seriously and is committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Such an offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, in either case, a criminal record. It must also be considered whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006.



At this stage we would be grateful if you would provide any evidence to support the claim that none of the above legislation has been contravened to prevent further action being contemplated.
----
How should I respond?

Thanks



Kind regards,

I wouldn't include the explanation in post 6, unless you can substantiate it with records of bus fares or your Uber journey history.

 

[WesternLancer]

--
How should I respond?

As per the advice given in post #9, which sets out the approach you should take in your response.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I wouldn't include the explanation in post 6, unless you can substantiate it with records of bus fares or your Uber journey history.

Particularly given Five Ways is a gated station and it's easy for WMT to check where a barcode ticket has been scanned.

 

[Jesturrrr]

I have created a draft email to send.
----------------------------------------

Dear Fare Evasion Manager,

I am writing to you to convey my deepest apologies for the events that have occurred. I have no excuse for my actions, and I am ashamed of what I have done. I was not aware that the penalties for short faring were so severe, and I have since educated myself on the impact on both myself and the train companies that you represent. I assure you that this will never happen again, and I have learnt my lesson from the events of the 24th of July, as evidenced by my purchasing of genuine fares since that day - this is something that I will continue to do and I promise that you will never see my name on your files again.

On the subject of my name, you may see that this email is addressed from one "<REDACTED>". This is not my real name, as this is a "spam" account that I use to sign up for services to keep my genuine personal/work inbox clear of promotional and advertising emails. As I see that I have not yet received a letter from you, and I did not have my ID on me at the time the incident occurred, I would like to clarify and confirm any personal details as a gesture of my co-operation with this investigation. My real name is "<REDACTED>" and I live at "<REDACTED ADDRESS>. These are details that I believe I supplied to the Revenue Protection Officer while under caution.

I am eager to settle this matter out of court, and am more than happy to pay the full outstanding fares in full as well as cover any administrative costs that you have incurred investigating this matter.

Kind Regards,

 

[signed]

On the subject of my name, you may see that this email is addressed from one "<REDACTED>". This is not my real name, as this is a "spam" account that I use to sign up for services to keep my genuine personal/work inbox clear of promotional and advertising emails. As I see that I have not yet received a letter from you, and I did not have my ID on me at the time the incident occurred, I would like to clarify and confirm any personal details as a gesture of my co-operation with this investigation. My real name is "<REDACTED>" and I live at "<REDACTED ADDRESS>. These are details that I believe I supplied to the Revenue Protection Officer while under caution.

I think the part in bold is extremely irrelevant, especially as you can change your display name (that is seen by the recipients) on all email clients.

https://support.google.com/mail/answer/8158?hl=en :

Change the name on your Gmail account​

You can change the name that's linked to your email address.

 

[Jesturrrr]

I understand. With accusations of fraud flying around, I'm just very eager to clear up any and every part of the situation I've found myself in.

EDIT: I've changed my display name and updated my draft, removing the bold part. The email now reads like so:

Dear Fare Evasion Manager,

I am writing to you to convey my deepest apologies for the events that have occurred. I have no excuse for my actions, and I am ashamed of what I have done. I was not aware that the penalties for short faring were so severe, and I have since educated myself on the impact on both myself and the train companies that you represent. I assure you that this will never happen again, and I have learnt my lesson from the events of the 24th of July, as evidenced by my purchasing of genuine fares since that day - this is something that I will continue to do and I promise that you will never see my name on your files again.

As I did not have my ID with me at the time of the incident, I would like to clarify and confirm any personal details as a gesture of my co-operation with this investigation. My name is "<REDACTED>" and I live at "<REDACTED ADDRESS>. These are details that I believe I supplied to the Revenue Protection Officer while under caution.

I am eager to settle this matter out of court, and am more than happy to pay the full outstanding fares in full as well as cover any administrative costs that you have incurred investigating this matter.

Kind Regards,

Morning folks,

Just bumping this as I intend to send the above email out today or tomorrow if there's no more feedback that needs to be given. I may also change the last line to "I am eager to settle this matter out of court, and am more than happy to pay any outstanding fees in full as well as cover any administrative costs that you have incurred investigating this matter." as to not incriminate myself if they've only got me on one fare (Unlikely, but I can be hopeful)

 

[Jesturrrr]

Morning folks,

Just bumping this as I intend to send the above email out today or tomorrow if there's no more feedback that needs to be given. I may also change the last line to "I am eager to settle this matter out of court, and am more than happy to pay any outstanding fees in full as well as cover any administrative costs that you have incurred investigating this matter." as to not incriminate myself if they've only got me on one fare (Unlikely, but I can be hopeful)

 

[WesternLancer]

Morning folks,

Just bumping this as I intend to send the above email out today or tomorrow if there's no more feedback that needs to be given. I may also change the last line to "I am eager to settle this matter out of court, and am more than happy to pay any outstanding fees in full as well as cover any administrative costs that you have incurred investigating this matter." as to not incriminate myself if they've only got me on one fare (Unlikely, but I can be hopeful)

I think you should change that bit, but usual advice on here is t make that more of an 'ask' as obviously who would not be eager to settle it out of court - for example

"I would be most grateful if you could sympathetically consider a request to settle this matter out of court, and I am more than happy to pay any outstanding fees in full as well as cover any administrative costs that you have incurred investigating this matter."

 

[Jesturrrr]

Thanks @WesternLancer. Email now reads like so:

Dear Fare Evasion Manager,

I am writing to you to convey my deepest apologies for the events that have occurred. I have no excuse for my actions and I am ashamed of what I have done. I was not aware that the penalties for short faring were so severe and I have since educated myself on the impact on both myself and the train companies that you represent. I assure you that this will never happen again and I have learnt my lesson from the events of the 24th of July, as evidenced by my purchasing of genuine fares since that day - this is something that I will continue to do and I promise that you will never see my name on your files again.

As I did not have my ID with me at the time of the incident, I would like to clarify and confirm any personal details as a gesture of my co-operation with this investigation. My name is "<REDACTED>" and I live at "<REDACTED ADDRESS>. These are details that I believe I supplied to the Revenue Protection Officer while under caution.

I would be most grateful if you would consider a request to settle this matter out of court, and I am more than happy to pay any outstanding fees in full as well as cover any administrative costs that you have incurred investigating this matter.

Kind Regards,
------------
Took the time to also clear up some of the grammatical errors and passive voice that were bugging me upon reading it a few more times.

Hey folks,

I've just submitted the email now. Wish me luck.

Thanks for all your help, especially @Hadders and @WesternLancer for being so knowledgeable in what to do with cases like this. I'm sure I would've made a bumbling fool out of myself if not for you two and the others in this thread. I'll report back with the outcome.

Thanks again.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks @WesternLancer. Email now reads like so:

Dear Fare Evasion Manager,

I am writing to you to convey my deepest apologies for the events that have occurred. I have no excuse for my actions and I am ashamed of what I have done. I was not aware that the penalties for short faring were so severe and I have since educated myself on the impact on both myself and the train companies that you represent. I assure you that this will never happen again and I have learnt my lesson from the events of the 24th of July, as evidenced by my purchasing of genuine fares since that day - this is something that I will continue to do and I promise that you will never see my name on your files again.

As I did not have my ID with me at the time of the incident, I would like to clarify and confirm any personal details as a gesture of my co-operation with this investigation. My name is "<REDACTED>" and I live at "<REDACTED ADDRESS>. These are details that I believe I supplied to the Revenue Protection Officer while under caution.

I would be most grateful if you would consider a request to settle this matter out of court, and I am more than happy to pay any outstanding fees in full as well as cover any administrative costs that you have incurred investigating this matter.

Kind Regards,
------------
Took the time to also clear up some of the grammatical errors and passive voice that were bugging me upon reading it a few more times.

Hey folks,

I've just submitted the email now. Wish me luck.

Thanks for all your help, especially @Hadders and @WesternLancer for being so knowledgeable in what to do with cases like this. I'm sure I would've made a bumbling fool out of myself if not for you two and the others in this thread. I'll report back with the outcome.

Thanks again.

Good luck and head back here if more info needed.

 

[Jesturrrr]

Hi all,

Just got the email back from them. Been offered an out of court settlement of £287. Bit of a sting to the old wallet but much better than the alternative of a criminal record. There's a couple of fares on there that are legitimate (like one from Hattersley to Manchester Piccadilly as that was me going to a concert last month) but I'm not going to argue with them for the sake of £5.70 when they can still just take me to court.

Once again, special thanks to @WesternLancer and @Hadders for helping me out here, and everyone else that jumped on the thread. Definitely couldn't have done it without all of you and you've all been extremely helpful, not just to me but to a lot of people that post here.

Now that it's over with, I'm definitely not going to be jibbing the train again. Absolutely isn't worth it.

 

[30907]

Thanks for the feedback, it helps.

Hattersley to Piccadilly is an odd one, as it's not an obvious station for short-faring - I wonder why the picked it out?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all,

Just got the email back from them. Been offered an out of court settlement of £287. Bit of a sting to the old wallet but much better than the alternative of a criminal record. There's a couple of fares on there that are legitimate (like one from Hattersley to Manchester Piccadilly as that was me going to a concert last month) but I'm not going to argue with them for the sake of £5.70 when they can still just take me to court.

Once again, special thanks to @WesternLancer and @Hadders for helping me out here, and everyone else that jumped on the thread. Definitely couldn't have done it without all of you and you've all been extremely helpful, not just to me but to a lot of people that post here.

Now that it's over with, I'm definitely not going to be jibbing the train again. Absolutely isn't worth it.

Thanks for update and glad to hear this played out in the right direction (if perhaps not for the wallet )

FWIW make sure you keep proof of payment to them.