Retreiving Items From The Track/Cess?

[reb0118]

Can traincrew retrieve items that have fallen down between their train & the track without a line block? If so would it matter if the item had blow behind the train - i.e. the train is no longer providing protection from the other running line?

NB this is academic as I can no longer fit between the gap between the train & the platform.

 

[Intermodal]

There is no rulebook requirement to obtain a line block if a member of train crew is protected by their own train when going on or near the line.

If the item was behind the train, but still in the four foot of the same line, then the train would still be protecting that area unless the platform was permissive or there was a signal in between the train and the item.

Train crew can retrieve these items if they want to and deem it safe to do so, at least in the company I have experience with. We were encouraged to do so as not retrieving it may encourage the MOP to retrieve it themselves. Other company policies may vary.

 

[Elecman]

There is no rulebook requirement to obtain a line block if a member of train crew is protected by their own train when going on or near the line.

im sure there is if it involves going adjacent to an open line when Inspecting a problem, indeed this non setting up of a line blockage was the route cause of a very serious near miss with driver and MOM on the WCML

im sure there is if it involves going adjacent to an open line when Inspecting a problem, indeed this non setting up of a line blockage was the route cause of a very serious near miss with driver and MOM on the WCML

 

[Intermodal]

im sure there is if it involves going adjacent to an open line when Inspecting a problem, indeed this non setting up of a line blockage was the route cause of a very serious near miss with driver and MOM on the WCML

If you read what I said then you will see I said there is no requirement when protected by your train.

The instance you talk about of being on an adjacent line or in the 6 foot as was the case on the WCML is an instance where you are not protected by your train.

 

[Mugby]

I believe staff at some of the larger stations have the use of those hand held grabber implements for retrieving small items which have fallen off a platform.

A while ago, I saw a woman at Birmingham New Street who was on crutches and wearing flip flops. As she boarded her train, one of her ridiculously inappropriate flip flops fell between the train and the platform, she stood defiantly blocking the door and refusing to move until it was retrieved. One of the platform staff produced the tool and did the job. The delay was minimal but I thought she had a damned cheek!

 

[SeanG]

My mate is a guard and retrieved an item from under a train whilst stopped in a station the other week. The guard wore high vis and made sure he took the drivers key with him so the unit couldn't be moved

 

[Ashley Hill]

There was a farce on the last Pad 24/7 where the platform staff wouldn't retrieve a woman's bag from the track of an empty platform without a block despite having a long reach grabber. This resulted in the woman threatening to get it herself. I acknowledge the editing probably made it look worse than it probably was though.
If it's easily accessible and safe to get I'd probably just jump down and get it or if between the train and platform the uncoupling rod makes a useful hook.

 

[Steam Man]

On the heritage railway I work yes we can do that

 

[TheEdge]

There was a farce on the last Pad 24/7 where the platform staff wouldn't retrieve a woman's bag from the track of an empty platform without a block despite having a long reach grabber. This resulted in the woman threatening to get it herself. I acknowledge the editing probably made it look worse than it probably was though.
If it's easily accessible and safe to get I'd probably just jump down and get it or if between the train and platform the uncoupling rod makes a useful hook.

They did seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill with that one. Although as you say the edit might have helped that.

 

[Andyh82]

They did seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill with that one. Although as you say the edit might have helped that.

Indeed. The focus seemed to be more on the women starting to kick off and whether they needed to deploy the BTP

But as there was on the face of it about half a dozen railway employees all standing around waiting for authorisation, with the bag clearly in view, and the knowledge that another train was due in, no wonder she was getting annoyed

 

[CyrusWuff]

There was a farce on the last Pad 24/7 where the platform staff wouldn't retrieve a woman's bag from the track of an empty platform without a block despite having a long reach grabber. This resulted in the woman threatening to get it herself. I acknowledge the editing probably made it look worse than it probably was though.
If it's easily accessible and safe to get I'd probably just jump down and get it or if between the train and platform the uncoupling rod makes a useful hook.

It's not a question of whether you've got a grabber or not, it's one of safety. Unless the object has fallen between the train and the platform, and you're sure that said train won't move, I would imagine that most (if not all) TOCs require you to request a block prior to retrieving an item from the track as you might think you know when the next train is due to occupy a given platform, but there are a number of reasons why that could change.

Whilst it may seem excessive for something that should only take a few seconds, having 400+ tonnes of train bearing down on you is not a fun experience, either for the member of staff undertaking the retrieval or the Driver of the inbound train.

 

[Deafdoggie]

There was a farce on the last Pad 24/7 where the platform staff wouldn't retrieve a woman's bag from the track of an empty platform without a block despite having a long reach grabber. This resulted in the woman threatening to get it herself. I acknowledge the editing probably made it look worse than it probably was though.
If it's easily accessible and safe to get I'd probably just jump down and get it or if between the train and platform the uncoupling rod makes a useful hook.

I don’t want to spoil the magic of television, but...Some friends of mine were going on holiday a few years ago & arrived at the airport very early. There was a film crew there filming a documentary about that particular airline. They were asked if they minded pretending they’d forgotten their passports at check-in to make a story. As they were so early there was no one else around, and in the program it was implied everyone else had already boarded. A ‘friend’ then appeared at the ‘last minute‘ with their passports. As a thank you for their participation they were given a free upgrade.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I was wearing a hat at a station in Germany, I was with a tour group and we were getting a local morning train to join a boat trip the River Rhine, when the train came in, the wind blew my hat off and it fell onto the track near the platform under the train. The tour leader did ask the train if he could reach and get it but was told sorry no, it would delay the train, so off we went for out excursion and with out the hat. Later that afternoon, when we got back, I saw the hat was still on the track and undamaged. I looked for a member of station staff but there were non. I then tried to ask a group of local students if they knew where the staff may be and by sign language and broken German / English, explained the problem and much to my surprise one of the lads jumped off the platform and picked up and gave it to me. I was amazed, surprised and grateful. A train had moments before pulled out, so another one was not coming straight away and there was no 3rd rail. I now make sure I hold onto my hat at stations or when it's windy.

 

[Essexman]

There was a farce on the last Pad 24/7 where the platform staff wouldn't retrieve a woman's bag from the track of an empty platform without a block despite having a long reach grabber. This resulted in the woman threatening to get it herself. I acknowledge the editing probably made it look worse than it probably was though.
If it's easily accessible and safe to get I'd probably just jump down and get it or if between the train and platform the uncoupling rod makes a useful hook.

The entire premise of the Paddington programme seems to be that there must be jeopardy - will the job get completed in time.
In this case the timings the narrative implied didn't seem to fit the facts - train just left last station (probably Reading possibly Slough), due any minute, ten minutes passed when station clocked showed it was three. BTP called but seemed to have disappeared when the bag was actually being retrieved. My only surprise was that they didn't suggest the bag might derail the 125mph train.

 

[philthetube]

lul just ask the next train to stop short to allow retrieval, there is a danger in not retrieving even unclaimed objects from the track as someone else may decide that they fancy the item and help themselves.

 

[TheEdge]

It's not a question of whether you've got a grabber or not, it's one of safety. Unless the object has fallen between the train and the platform, and you're sure that said train won't move, I would imagine that most (if not all) TOCs require you to request a block prior to retrieving an item from the track as you might think you know when the next train is due to occupy a given platform, but there are a number of reasons why that could change.

Whilst it may seem excessive for something that should only take a few seconds, having 400+ tonnes of train bearing down on you is not a fun experience, either for the member of staff undertaking the retrieval or the Driver of the inbound train.

What I found infuriating is the way that was presented. In reality I imagine what happened was the platform supervisor radioed control, who took a block, got the bag, block given back.

The cutting made it look like it took hours and the woman was getting annoyed. I imagine most of her being annoyed was waiting a few minutes for the block to be confirmed.

 

[Mojo]

lul just ask the next train to stop short to allow retrieval, there is a danger in not retrieving even unclaimed objects from the track as someone else may decide that they fancy the item and help themselves.

Additionally in open sections, assuming sufficient sighting time exists, staff are permitted to retrieve items using a track retrieval device without trains being required to be held.

 

[Bikeman78]

I was wearing a hat at a station in Germany, I was with a tour group and we were getting a local morning train to join a boat trip the River Rhine, when the train came in, the wind blew my hat off and it fell onto the track near the platform under the train. The tour leader did ask the train if he could reach and get it but was told sorry no, it would delay the train, so off we went for out excursion and with out the hat. Later that afternoon, when we got back, I saw the hat was still on the track and undamaged. I looked for a member of station staff but there were non. I then tried to ask a group of local students if they knew where the staff may be and by sign language and broken German / English, explained the problem and much to my surprise one of the lads jumped off the platform and picked up and gave it to me. I was amazed, surprised and grateful. A train had moments before pulled out, so another one was not coming straight away and there was no 3rd rail. I now make sure I hold onto my hat at stations or when it's windy.

At Brussel Noord I dropped my watch onto the track. The strap had broken at the start of the trip so I was keeping it in my pocket. When I pulled it out of the pocket, it slipped out of my hand, fell off the platform and bounced off the side of a bogie of an arriving train. As soon as the rear carriage had cleared (I was standing right at the north end of the platform) I jumped down and retrieved the watch. Platforms are quite low in Belgium and they are rather less concerned about health and safety. The watch still worked fine.

 

[LAX54]

If the Station Staff are going onto the track, then they will need a block with the Signaller, end of, if there is a train in the platform, then they need to get in touch with Signaller to have the signal replaced to Danger, and thr Driver instructed not to move, everyday happening at Colchester / Ipswich / Norwich etc

 

[Driver2B]

It's not a question of whether you've got a grabber or not, it's one of safety. Unless the object has fallen between the train and the platform, and you're sure that said train won't move, I would imagine that most (if not all) TOCs require you to request a block prior to retrieving an item from the track as you might think you know when the next train is due to occupy a given platform, but there are a number of reasons why that could change.

Whilst it may seem excessive for something that should only take a few seconds, having 400+ tonnes of train bearing down on you is not a fun experience, either for the member of staff undertaking the retrieval or the Driver of the inbound train.

At my TOC, platform staff can retrieve items from between the platform and the train without a block if they are accompanied by a member of traincrew (driver or guard).

 

[eoff]

There was a farce on the last Pad 24/7 where the platform staff wouldn't retrieve a woman's bag from the track of an empty platform without a block despite having a long reach grabber. This resulted in the woman threatening to get it herself. I acknowledge the editing probably made it look worse than it probably was though.
If it's easily accessible and safe to get I'd probably just jump down and get it or if between the train and platform the uncoupling rod makes a useful hook.

If this is the programme I saw then the bag was dropped between a train and the platform, that train then departed. The chance it would then reverse or another train arrive very quicky seemed quite small to me, meanwhile staff stand and look on and then try to use a wimpy grabber to get the bag which was "too heavy". I'm sure the woman was just thinking "Just jump down and get it and if a train comes walk and hide behind those buffers along the track".

 

[LAX54]

If this is the programme I saw then the bag was dropped between a train and the platform, that train then departed. The chance it would then reverse or another train arrive very quicky seemed quite small to me, meanwhile staff stand and look on and then try to use a wimpy grabber to get the bag which was "too heavy". I'm sure the woman was just thinking "Just jump down and get it and if a train comes walk and hide behind those buffers along the track".

All it needs is a call the the Signaller, once the train has departed, a block will be given, and simply jump down and get the item, give up block IF the Signaller is busy, it may not be instantaneous of course.
The Signaller has to complete an NR3180 form (Line Block) even if the station staff do not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At Brussel Noord I dropped my watch onto the track. The strap had broken at the start of the trip so I was keeping it in my pocket. When I pulled it out of the pocket, it slipped out of my hand, fell off the platform and bounced off the side of a bogie of an arriving train. As soon as the rear carriage had cleared (I was standing right at the north end of the platform) I jumped down and retrieved the watch. Platforms are quite low in Belgium and they are rather less concerned about health and safety. The watch still worked fine.

Most other European countries (and indeed worldwide) are less bothered about people walking across the track than the UK historically has been, though with more high speed operation it's less common than it used to be. I still recall a couple of incidents, one in 1998 of being on the Donauwalzer EN and pulling into some backwater at about 3am, with our train shown on the displays on the opposite platform. There were a couple of people waiting there, as was a member of staff who pointed at it, then they just stepped down, crossed the track, opened a door on the wrong side and boarded. The other one was more recent, on a regional train between Frankfurt an der Oder and Poland, someone was waiting on the wrong platform so just casually walked across in front.

Mind you I've seen some prat do it at Preston late at night right in front of the arriving train, and nothing was actually done about it.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Back in the day - on 3d rail land , you used an easily obtainable hook switch pole from a nearby cab / brake van or out of the station office. There was something around then called "common sense".....

 

[Gloster]

I did once jump down on to the line on Platform 4 at Guildford with a Down train already running into the platform. A mail bag which looked as though it had something square and solid in it had fallen down between the rail and the platform, and I thought it might damage the shoe-gear. I jumped down, grabbed it, swung it up on to the platform and scrambled inelegantly back; I was eighteen and (too?) keen.

Having lived abroad, I have seen that there does appear to be both a more relaxed attitude to the rules, but a greater appreciation of the risk and the need to use your common sense. There is also, and this extends well beyond railways, an attitude that the individual should act reasonably and responsibly; if they do have an accident through their own stupidity, then it is their own b silly fault and not that of the railway.

Even so, the stupidest I have seen, of a number of incidents, was the chap at Lund who decided to take a short-cut across the tracks just as a fast freight was approaching. He ambled across, making no move to hurry despite the loco horn playing a tattoo, and the Rc was only a couple of metres from him when he got clear of the track. He was sufficiently close to the loco that a backpack or flapping coat could easily have caught the corner of it.

 

[jon0844]

I don’t want to spoil the magic of television, but...Some friends of mine were going on holiday a few years ago & arrived at the airport very early. There was a film crew there filming a documentary about that particular airline. They were asked if they minded pretending they’d forgotten their passports at check-in to make a story. As they were so early there was no one else around, and in the program it was implied everyone else had already boarded. A ‘friend’ then appeared at the ‘last minute‘ with their passports. As a thank you for their participation they were given a free upgrade.

I might have said this elsewhere on here, but years ago (many years, when VHS releases for Christmas was a thing) I was in the audience for the filming of Have I Got News For You and at the end, we did the usual retakes for whatever wasn't quite right during the main filming (all standard stuff) but then after that, we stayed for them to actually record bloopers for the VHS release!

I thought it quite amusing that people were going to buy a special tape to see all the things that went wrong which were all fake!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

lul just ask the next train to stop short to allow retrieval

They do, but I can't see that working on the main line given the propensity of passengers to pull the egress handle if they're unexpectedly held up even within sight of a station in mid journey, let alone at the terminus with half the train already in the platforms...

The rear of the train is also likely to be fouling the points and potentially blocking several other platforms.

If a large and bulky object had fallen and was obstructing the track at the last minute, then yes the train would have to be manually flagged down to stop before it reached the obstruction, but not for a small item like the bag in the documentary.

 

[_toommm_]

There was a farce on the last Pad 24/7 where the platform staff wouldn't retrieve a woman's bag from the track of an empty platform without a block despite having a long reach grabber. This resulted in the woman threatening to get it herself. I acknowledge the editing probably made it look worse than it probably was though.
If it's easily accessible and safe to get I'd probably just jump down and get it or if between the train and platform the uncoupling rod makes a useful hook.

This is the clip in question if anyone is interested:

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[colchesterken]

As a trainspotter of 60 yrs, I know the dangers, I was amazed a few years ago in Spain I think it was near Saloo the beach comprised several bays with a track running in tunnels along the beach ( bit like Dawlish ) it seemed the route from bay to bay was along the single track railway
The accepted way to go was, wait for a train to pass then go knowing the next one will be in some time

 

[Bletchleyite]

As a trainspotter of 60 yrs, I know the dangers, I was amazed a few years ago in Spain I think it was near Saloo the beach comprised several bays with a track running in tunnels along the beach ( bit like Dawlish ) it seemed the route from bay to bay was along the single track railway
The accepted way to go was, wait for a train to pass then go knowing the next one will be in some time

And, realistically, that's perfectly safe enough. A lot safer than crossing a motorway style 70mph dual carriageway on the level, which you can do. Whereas walking across the WCML on the level is rather less so. OK, you could potentially trip over the rail if you really weren't careful, but walking across, say, the Cambrian in the middle of nowhere, provided there's a good sightline, is no more dangerous than walking across the barrow crossing at Tywyn right in front of the train (which feels really odd, I must admit, but is allowed despite there being road access to both sides).

The UK takes the absolutist line of thou shalt never walk on the railway, but most other countries don't - the UK is well out of line with the "standard" on this one.

One exception - segregated tramways, where crossings are basically always on the level. And walking across the Cambs busway feels weird too!