Return to the Seaside Specials?

[Tangent]

Given the good possibility that periods such as this one will become more common in the near future during UK summers, is there any possibility that these could be more widespread in future?

I can see some of the possible cons:

* Lack of rolling stock, or drivers signed for a route with training for the stock in question
* Lack of paths
* Anti-social behaviour, particularly on homeward-bound journeys
* Difficulty in predicting demand
* Lack of stabling capacity in the relevant stations

But could these be got over? For instance, as far as demand goes, special advance tickets for coastal destinations on flexible dates could be sold, where the customer can pay in advance, and choose the destination between a week & 48 hours in advance. When they choose their time & destination, they then receive an itinerary, which can either be a conventional service or a special if there is enough demand.

One reason I think this is worth pursuing is that this would help the railway adapt to a more leisure-focused model in future, which would be the best way to keep passenger numbers healthy in the medium term.

 

[Ken H]

Given the good possibility that periods such as this one will become more common in the near future during UK summers, is there any possibility that these could be more widespread in future?

I can see some of the possible cons:

* Lack of rolling stock, or drivers signed for a route with training for the stock in question
* Lack of paths
* Anti-social behaviour, particularly on homeward-bound journeys
* Difficulty in predicting demand
* Lack of stabling capacity in the relevant stations

But could these be got over? For instance, as far as demand goes, special advance tickets for coastal destinations on flexible dates could be sold, where the customer can pay in advance, and choose the destination between a week & 48 hours in advance. When they choose their time & destination, they then receive an itinerary, which can either be a conventional service or a special if there is enough demand.

One reason I think this is worth pursuing is that this would help the railway adapt to a more leisure-focused model in future, which would be the best way to keep passenger numbers healthy in the medium term.

I think the railway needs to do something like this, but the old model of trains made up of knackered old rolling stock wont do in 2022.
The railway also needs to come up with some advertising to suggest paces to go by train. The LNER did this so well with the beautiful posters.
But the problem of massive amounts of cash to take a family (2 adults and 2 kids) by public transport needs to be addressed.

 

[Mogz]

If the rolling stock could be obtained, local operators could do some
Summer Saturday or Sunday specials, I’d have thought?

Eg Chiltern could stitch together some of their Mk 3 rakes and have holiday specials from Birmingham to the South Coast or South West using a DVT as a proper baggage car.

 

[30907]

The last of a classic BR(SR) model pre-Covid was the 0903 Cannon St - Dartford - Ramsgate. Stock available at the end of the morning peak and needing to go somewhere to stable anywhere - no specific return train as there was capacity enough on regular services, the set simply ran back empty for its evening duty.

That's fine for simple journeys from the suburbs to the coast, so long as you have a significant difference between peak/off-peak timetables - which is less likely to be the case in future, and even now really only applies around London.

You could make the model more sophisticated by requiring advance booking for the outward trip and offering special fares "return any train same day" but there's little point offering destinations based on popular voting as you suggest, as the network isn't that flexible.

 

[yorksrob]

The Kent and Sussex Coast strike me as the most obvious contenders - i.e. there's still capacity in the London Terminals, places like Ramsgate, Margate and Brighton still have plenty of capacity, and you might still have enough stock to scrape together some additionals.

On the regional railway, some stations like Scarborough have the capacity - stock would be more of a challenge.

 

[ajs]

Back in the late 1970s early 80s the old Southern Region had a ticket that was valid for off peak travel, 3 days in 7 and you chose a City, Coast and l think a Country destination anywhere on the Southern Region. Cannot remember the cost though or if you had to enter your destinations on the ticket.

No special trains required but a good choice of destinations.

 

[yorksrob]

Back in the late 1970s early 80s the old Southern Region had a ticket that was valid for off peak travel, 3 days in 7 and you chose a City, Coast and l think a Country destination anywhere on the Southern Region. Cannot remember the cost though or if you had to enter your destinations on the ticket.

No special trains required but a good choice of destinations.

Now that's innovative !

 

[HSTEd]

Ultimately special trains are not something the railway is equipped to operate in the modern era.

At best you might be able to move units around to strengthen trains going to various destinations - but that would require a large fleet with uniform multiple working equipment - which is not something the modern railway really has.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Southeastern still run Sunday London Cannon Street - Ramsgate Specials. So it can be done.

 

[Iskra]

Southeastern still run Sunday London Cannon Street - Ramsgate Specials. So it can be done.

EMR do Derby-Skegness 'The Jolly Fisherman,' too and EMR to Scarborough only recently stopped.

Are XC doing Newquay and GWR Weymouth longer formations this year?

 

[The Planner]

If the rolling stock could be obtained, local operators could do some
Summer Saturday or Sunday specials, I’d have thought?

Eg Chiltern could stitch together some of their Mk 3 rakes and have holiday specials from Birmingham to the South Coast or South West using a DVT as a proper baggage car.

Why would Chiltern do that? They don't sign south of Oxford for a start. Leave it to the charter market.

 

[6Gman]

If the rolling stock could be obtained, local operators could do some
Summer Saturday or Sunday specials, I’d have thought?

Eg Chiltern could stitch together some of their Mk 3 rakes and have holiday specials from Birmingham to the South Coast or South West using a DVT as a proper baggage car.

Your example shows the challenge here:

The traincrew who sign the traction probably don't sign the south coast and vice versa.

And aren't there some restrictions on (some) Mk 3s on Southern third rail?

I used to plan long distance charters 20+ years ago - it was difficult then; it's much worse now.

 

[class397tpe]

The Kent and Sussex Coast strike me as the most obvious contenders - i.e. there's still capacity in the London Terminals, places like Ramsgate, Margate and Brighton still have plenty of capacity, and you might still have enough stock to scrape together some additionals.

On the regional railway, some stations like Scarborough have the capacity - stock would be more of a challenge.

Since you mentioned Scarborough.... this is a bit mad, but once TransPennine gets over its current issues and gets all its Nova 3s into service, could they potentially run 3x185s as summer specials if there's enough capacity in the fleet?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Now that's innovative !

The Western did the same - mid 1970's - valid anywhere , but did not include Paddington (boundary Slough) , and Shrewsbury in the "north" - a very good deal with lots of options obviously.

 

[yorksrob]

The Western did the same - mid 1970's - valid anywhere , but did not include Paddington (boundary Slough) , and Shrewsbury in the "north" - a very good deal with lots of options obviously.

I can imagine it working up north as well - but would need to include the different TOC's routes.

Since you mentioned Scarborough.... this is a bit mad, but once TransPennine gets over its current issues and gets all its Nova 3s into service, could they potentially run 3x185s as summer specials if there's enough capacity in the fleet?

I can imagine once it's all working properly, they should have enough stock to run 5 and 6 carriage services on most routes. The stretches between Leeds - Scarborough/Hull etc have a tenancy to be less crowded than the core anyway.

 

[Snow1964]

Back in the late 1970s early 80s the old Southern Region had a ticket that was valid for off peak travel, 3 days in 7 and you chose a City, Coast and l think a Country destination anywhere on the Southern Region. Cannot remember the cost though or if you had to enter your destinations on the ticket.

No special trains required but a good choice of destinations.

I remember the Southern rovers, used them in late 1970s when I was a teenager. The Wessex ones were C and D (nearest you could get to London was Woking, but one did Portsmouth, Bournemouth, Reading, the other further west, to Weymouth and Salisbury etc. It was £10 for 7 days after 10am (anytime weekend)

GWR does some 3 day from 7 rovers, (can also get 7 day and 8 from 15 day) from my local station. Attaching map of them here

https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/pdfs/plan-journey/tickets-railcards-and-season-tickets/rangers-and-rovers/discover-map-2019-v5.pdf?la=en